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Hi,

Those are my stats; I want to know my chances at T14 schools.

Additional info:

Decent softs (lots of research experience, tutoring, TA'ing... mostly academic in nature)
Denied registration for a semester after freshmen year (academic probation)
Significant upward trend (of last 19 classes, received an A or A- in 18)

Thoughts?

Saiith wrote:Hi,

Those are my stats; I'm graduating from Reed College in Oregon, and want to know my chances at T14 schools.

Additional info:

Decent softs (lots of research experience, tutoring, TA'ing... mostly academic in nature)
Denied registration for a semester after freshmen year (academic probation... failed 3 classes freshmen year, but retook them and received A's... as my school expunges the original grades they won't factor into my CGPA) but got straight A's at OSU to regain admission
Significant upward trend (of last 19 classes, received an A or A- in 18)
GPA at Reed is notoriously lower than at most other top liberal arts schools

Thoughts?

LSAC will likely factor in those failed 3 classes when they calculate your GPA. So the GPA that law schools will evaluate you on will most likely be a bit lower than your 3.6. If your GPA comes out around a 3.2 (complete guess) I'd say you have a good shot at the lower T14, and MVP with ED.

oneforship wrote:

Saiith wrote:Hi,

Those are my stats; I'm graduating from Reed College in Oregon, and want to know my chances at T14 schools.

Additional info:

Decent softs (lots of research experience, tutoring, TA'ing... mostly academic in nature)
Denied registration for a semester after freshmen year (academic probation... failed 3 classes freshmen year, but retook them and received A's... as my school expunges the original grades they won't factor into my CGPA) but got straight A's at OSU to regain admission
Significant upward trend (of last 19 classes, received an A or A- in 18)
GPA at Reed is notoriously lower than at most other top liberal arts schools

Thoughts?

LSAC will likely factor in those failed 3 classes when they calculate your GPA. So the GPA that law schools will evaluate you on will most likely be a bit lower than your 3.6. If your GPA comes out around a 3.2 (complete guess) I'd say you have a good shot at the lower T14, and MVP with ED.

Well I've called LSAC and informed them about my situation, and as ignorant as the customer reps are of their own company's policies they've been pretty vague, but for the most part assured me that my original grades would have no way of being counted, as they are literally gone from the transcript (in their place is the coding "RP" which means repeated). The point being, how can they even know what grade I originally got? I could have received C's for example, and they'd have no way of knowing, because those grades aren't on any official record anymore. Unless they just assume I failed them (which seems unreasonable) there's no way for them to use them in computation.

Saiith wrote: Well I've called LSAC and informed them about my situation, and as ignorant as the customer reps are of their own company's policies they've been pretty vague, but for the most part assured me that my original grades would have no way of being counted, as they are literally gone from the transcript (in their place is the coding "RP" which means repeated). The point being, how can they even know what grade I originally got? I could have received D's for example, and they'd have no way of knowing, because those grades aren't on any official record anymore. Unless they just assume I failed them (which seems unreasonable) there's no way for them to use them in computation.

I guess I can't say for sure, and you'll just have to wait and see what they do with your transcript when you submit it. Obviously, a 172/3.6 will open up a few more doors or $$ than a lower GPA will.

Saiith wrote:

oneforship wrote:

Saiith wrote:Hi,

Those are my stats; I'm graduating from Reed College in Oregon, and want to know my chances at T14 schools.

Additional info:

Decent softs (lots of research experience, tutoring, TA'ing... mostly academic in nature)
Denied registration for a semester after freshmen year (academic probation... failed 3 classes freshmen year, but retook them and received A's... as my school expunges the original grades they won't factor into my CGPA) but got straight A's at OSU to regain admission
Significant upward trend (of last 19 classes, received an A or A- in 18)
GPA at Reed is notoriously lower than at most other top liberal arts schools

Thoughts?

LSAC will likely factor in those failed 3 classes when they calculate your GPA. So the GPA that law schools will evaluate you on will most likely be a bit lower than your 3.6. If your GPA comes out around a 3.2 (complete guess) I'd say you have a good shot at the lower T14, and MVP with ED.

Well I've called LSAC and informed them about my situation, and as ignorant as the customer reps are of their own company's policies they've been pretty vague, but for the most part assured me that my original grades would have no way of being counted, as they are literally gone from the transcript (in their place is the coding "RP" which means repeated). The point being, how can they even know what grade I originally got? I could have received D's for example, and they'd have no way of knowing, because those grades aren't on any official record anymore. Unless they just assume I failed them (which seems unreasonable) there's no way for them to use them in computation.

I can say for sure that RP grades are not counted. Repeated grades are only counted when they appear on the transcript (crossed out or not).

WHEW. Now I guess the follow up question is... how do law schools look at RP classes? If I have a 3.6 will they look at it more like a 3.2 with 3 RP's?

Saiith wrote:
WHEW. Now I guess the follow up question is... how do law schools look at RP classes? If I have a 3.6 will they look at it more like a 3.2 with 3 RP's?

Most likely, they will look at it as a 3.6 unless they are trying to decide between you and another candidate with a 172/3.6 in which case the other applicant might have a slight edge if they don't have any repeats. If they don't show up on your transcript, you lucked out and law schools will consider you by the numbers that LSAC gives them.

Genki wrote:

Saiith wrote:
WHEW. Now I guess the follow up question is... how do law schools look at RP classes? If I have a 3.6 will they look at it more like a 3.2 with 3 RP's?

Most likely, they will look at it as a 3.6 unless they are trying to decide between you and another candidate with a 172/3.6 in which case the other applicant might have a slight edge if they don't have any repeats. If they don't show up on your transcript, you lucked out and law schools will consider you by the numbers that LSAC gives them.

Hm. So when LSAC compiles my information, will they also send my original transcript? If so then the schools will at least see the RP's.

Saiith wrote:

Genki wrote:

Saiith wrote:
WHEW. Now I guess the follow up question is... how do law schools look at RP classes? If I have a 3.6 will they look at it more like a 3.2 with 3 RP's?

Most likely, they will look at it as a 3.6 unless they are trying to decide between you and another candidate with a 172/3.6 in which case the other applicant might have a slight edge if they don't have any repeats. If they don't show up on your transcript, you lucked out and law schools will consider you by the numbers that LSAC gives them.

Hm. So when LSAC compiles my information, will they also send my original transcript? If so then the schools will at least see the RP's.

Yes, LSAC sends its academic summary report along with copies of each school's transcripts. So law schools do see the RP's.

im_blue wrote:

Saiith wrote:

Genki wrote:

Saiith wrote:
WHEW. Now I guess the follow up question is... how do law schools look at RP classes? If I have a 3.6 will they look at it more like a 3.2 with 3 RP's?

Most likely, they will look at it as a 3.6 unless they are trying to decide between you and another candidate with a 172/3.6 in which case the other applicant might have a slight edge if they don't have any repeats. If they don't show up on your transcript, you lucked out and law schools will consider you by the numbers that LSAC gives them.

Hm. So when LSAC compiles my information, will they also send my original transcript? If so then the schools will at least see the RP's.

Yes, LSAC sends its academic summary report along with copies of each school's transcripts. So law schools do see the RP's.

Anyone have an opinion about how much they'll hurt my chances?

Saiith wrote:
Anyone have an opinion about how much they'll hurt my chances?

I think they'll see it as a 3.2

saltoftheearth wrote:

Saiith wrote:
Anyone have an opinion about how much they'll hurt my chances?

I think they'll see it as a 3.2

I hope you're wrong... that wouldn't really be fair or accurate.

I retook classes during my UG and got the grades replaced with "R"s and they still counted against me. I believe the difference between a D and an F is marginal in the formulaic calculation

my school* allows for a W (withdraw- dropping class after week 4) or WF (withdraw fail- dropping class after week 9)

according to lsac, the WF is punitive and equal to a F

so is your RP more of a W or WF?

*quarter system school, dropping class before week 4 leaves no mark on transcript

from an older post:

From the LSDAS handbook,
Grades Excluded From Conversion:
Withdraw,Withdraw/Pass—only if the issuing school considers the grade nonpunitive.

Withdrawal grades that signify failure (such as WF=Withdraw/Fail, WU=Withdrew Unsatisfactory, WNP=Withdrew Not Passing) if the issuing school considers the grade nonpunitive. The total number of credits assigned to these grades will appear on the applicant’s LSDAS summary, but will not be included in the GPA calculation.

Well, there's nothing you can do about the RPs now, because it's all done and can't be changed. No use worrying about it either. Just send in the transcript and see what you come out with.

I would bet that if as OP states the original grades don't show at all on any of the transcripts he/she sends in, they won't count.

Isn't Reed known for grade deflation? That might help you a bit.

Page 36 of the current LSDAS Information Book:
http://www.lsac.org/pdfs/InformationBookweb.pdf

Grades Excluded from Conversion:
The original grade for a repeated course when the transcript does not show both the grade and the units for the original attempt. The total number of credits assigned to these grades will appear on the applicant’s academic summary, but will not be included in the GPA calculation.

You are pretty well set for CCN (maybe 66% at Columbia) and might have an in at H or S.

edit: assuming your 3.6 is a 3.6. looks like it might get calculated closer to 3.5 which would hurt you a bit (but I would still say all of the above are worth a shot).

be careful w/ anonymity. i suspect outing your ugrad institution/lsat/gpa combo would be sufficient to track you to a single application.