Top Law Schools

As the title notes, my lsdas gpa is a 3.37 and my Dec. test score was a 158. I know its nothing stellar and I'm not expecting to apply to schools beyond T50. I've applied to Rutgers-Newark and St. Johns and would like someone with insight to give an honest assessment of my chances. I went complete on 1/5/10 and currently under review.

Softs: Nothing special, 3 yrs work experience.
URM: No

All the indicators on LSP and LSN are giving me about a 50% shot at both schools. I know this is TLS and many people are just going to say "retake" but I took it in Sept. with a 157 and only scored 1 point higher in Dec., had hoped to do better in Dec. but it didnt work out as I had thought. So, any honest critique or advice would be greatly aprpeciated. Thank you.

I would consider adding pitt and penn state

Good Luck!!

Thanks Scurredsitless1, but are they not ranked higher than St. Johns and Rutgers? I believe my chances are even lower with those schools but I will heed to your advice. Thanks again.

Op, where do you want to work?

I would like to work in the Northeast area, NY/NJ preferably.

Rawlsian wrote:Op, where do you want to work?

Given his choice of schools...probably not a law firm.

MTal wrote:

Rawlsian wrote:Op, where do you want to work?

Given his choice of schools...probably not a law firm.

Why not? I understand these schools are T2 and only the top 10% or so get jobs in biglaw but biglaw is not the only "law firm." If you would please, elaborate on your post.

Braindead wrote:

MTal wrote:

Rawlsian wrote:Op, where do you want to work?

Given his choice of schools...probably not a law firm.

Why not? I understand these schools are T2 and only the top 10% or so get jobs in biglaw but biglaw is not the only "law firm." If you would please, elaborate on your post.

The legal market is unbelievably saturated, especially on the east coast. Upon posting a job add, firms are receiving 200 Resumes in 24 hours for extremely low paying (south of 35k) "shitlaw" jobs with no benefits. Many of these graduates have $200k+ in non-dischargeable student loan debt. You do the math. Given the odds, the schools you want to attend will likely leave you hundreds of thousands in debt and unemployed.

see:
http://bigdebtsmalllaw.wordpress.com
http://www.jdunderground.com

MTal wrote:

Braindead wrote:

MTal wrote:

Rawlsian wrote:Op, where do you want to work?

Given his choice of schools...probably not a law firm.

Why not? I understand these schools are T2 and only the top 10% or so get jobs in biglaw but biglaw is not the only "law firm." If you would please, elaborate on your post.

The legal market is unbelievably saturated, especially on the east coast. Upon posting a job add, firms are receiving 200 Resumes in 24 hours for extremely low paying (south of 35k) "shitlaw" jobs with no benefits. Many of these graduates have $200k+ in non-dischargeable student loan debt. You do the math. Given the odds, the schools you want to attend will likely leave you hundreds of thousands in debt and unemployed.

see:
http://bigdebtsmalllaw.wordpress.com
http://www.jdunderground.com

Thank you for the sources. I do appreciate reading all the disastrous consequences of pursuing a law degree, which has been rampant for the past year or so. I understand the challenges of the job market, and the debt most students will have to carry for a long time. If I had the grades and a great LSAT score, I would not need to worry, but I do not. Hence, I was asking on my chances at Rutgers-Newark, I am in-state, and won't have to carry a burden of a 100k+ loan. Whether I land a "shitlaw" job or not, to some, salaries are not the determining factor to pursue law school, at least IMO.

Given that all the indicators say I have a 50% shot at Rutgers, I was wondering if anyone with similar numbers or stats can relate to the admissions process at Rutgers.

Braindead wrote:

MTal wrote:

Braindead wrote:

MTal wrote:
Given his choice of schools...probably not a law firm.

Why not? I understand these schools are T2 and only the top 10% or so get jobs in biglaw but biglaw is not the only "law firm." If you would please, elaborate on your post.

The legal market is unbelievably saturated, especially on the east coast. Upon posting a job add, firms are receiving 200 Resumes in 24 hours for extremely low paying (south of 35k) "shitlaw" jobs with no benefits. Many of these graduates have $200k+ in non-dischargeable student loan debt. You do the math. Given the odds, the schools you want to attend will likely leave you hundreds of thousands in debt and unemployed.

see:
http://bigdebtsmalllaw.wordpress.com
http://www.jdunderground.com

Thank you for the sources. I do appreciate reading all the disastrous consequences of pursuing a law degree, which has been rampant for the past year or so. I understand the challenges of the job market, and the debt most students will have to carry for a long time. If I had the grades and a great LSAT score, I would not need to worry, but I do not. Hence, I was asking on my chances at Rutgers-Newark, I am in-state, and won't have to carry a burden of a 100k+ loan. Whether I land a "shitlaw" job or not, to some, salaries are not the determining factor to pursue law school, at least IMO.

Given that all the indicators say I have a 50% shot at Rutgers, I was wondering if anyone with similar numbers or stats can relate to the admissions process at Rutgers.

That's what I'm talking about!! Don't take shit from anyone.

I LOVE it

Sorry OP but I don't have any insight into Rutgers admissions process.

Rutgers is slightly easier to get into from in-state, although not the extent that some state schools are. Can't tell you much otherwise.

Good luck, especially to a fellow Jerseyan.

BenJ wrote:Rutgers is slightly easier to get into from in-state, although not the extent that some state schools are. Can't tell you much otherwise.

Good luck, especially to a fellow Jerseyan.

I envy your stats, very impressive numbers. Good luck to you, as well, I think you'll def. be somewhere in the T14, probably T5.

I have a 3.32 and a 159, maybe look at my schools on my profile? They are mostly west coast, but you could get a comparison of the level of schools at least.

Braindead wrote:Thanks Scurredsitless1, but are they not ranked higher than St. Johns and Rutgers? I believe my chances are even lower with those schools but I will heed to your advice. Thanks again.

I think your chance of admission there is very high. If I were you, I would consider Temple as a reach, and Pitt and Penn State as aggressive targets.

Good Luck with your decision

youre competitive at rutgers newark - i got in with scholarship at 3.0/161.
and fuck the asshole who says youre not competitive to find work out of rutgers; new jersey is not saturated... theres 3 law schools in new jersey.
seton hall might not be worth it (ok its not worth it)... but rutgers... come on, id much rather come out of rutgers 30k in debt with the entire new jersey law market as a possibility and an outside shot at nyc big law over 220k debt for most of the other schools in the new york area (outside of nyu, columbia, cornell, and a long deep soul searching conversation with myself about fordham). but if thats not possible (as its not for us) theres no shame in going to your T2 state school (which because of rutgers in-state as a 1L if you sign a lease policy means everyone)

Scurredsitless1 wrote:

Braindead wrote:Thanks Scurredsitless1, but are they not ranked higher than St. Johns and Rutgers? I believe my chances are even lower with those schools but I will heed to your advice. Thanks again.

I have 3.35 and a 159 and got money at Pitt. I think your chance of admission there is very high. If I were you, I would consider Temple as a reach, and Pitt and Penn State as aggressive targets.

Good Luck with your decision

Thank you! I have taken your advice and in the process of finishing apps. for Pitt, and Penn. Thanks again.

inSouthAmerica wrote:youre competitive at rutgers newark - i got in with scholarship at 3.0/161.
and fuck the asshole who says youre not competitive to find work out of rutgers; new jersey is not saturated... theres 3 law schools in new jersey.
seton hall might not be worth it (ok its not worth it)... but rutgers... come on, id much rather come out of rutgers 30k in debt with the entire new jersey law market as a possibility and an outside shot at nyc big law over 220k debt for most of the other schools in the new york area (outside of nyu, columbia, cornell, and a long deep soul searching conversation with myself about fordham). but if thats not possible (as its not for us) theres no shame in going to your T2 state school (which because of rutgers in-state as a 1L if you sign a lease policy means everyone)

Well said. At this point, I'm not looking to attent to attend any T14 schoosl. Hence, my decision will most likely be determined by job prospects after graduation and debt. If i can manage to attend a decent T2 with very low debt, I would not mind. It's going to be an uphill battle, but I plan to study my ass off. Thanks again for the words of encouragement. Much appreciated.

BTW, this may sound like an odd question, but does being one ethnicity but born in an odd country count for any significance? I know many diverse people can say they are Asian American, Indian American, etc. But does actual nationality count for anything? For instance, being Asian and born and raised in Brazil. Most likely won't count as a soft, but if anyone can definitively tell me so, it would be great. Thanks again everyone.

I agree that you should add Temple as a reach with your interesting background. I got into Temple and Pitt, both. Waiting on PennState. Full disclosure, I have a really strong soft in Peace Corps. I didn't get money at PItt. Right now I'm probably going to go to Rutgers-Newark over all of them barring a freak acceptance to something in the Top-30. Less Debt - More Options. Keep that Mentality, man. A regression to the saturated market theory however will reveal that Pennsylavania is a much more saturated Law School Market... read Duq., Pitt, PennState, Penn, Temple, Villanova, Drexel for a state that doesn't do the same level of commerce as New Jersey.

inSouthAmerica wrote:youre competitive at rutgers newark - i got in with scholarship at 3.0/161.
and fuck the asshole who says youre not competitive to find work out of rutgers; new jersey is not saturated... theres 3 law schools in new jersey.
seton hall might not be worth it (ok its not worth it)... but rutgers... come on, id much rather come out of rutgers 30k in debt with the entire new jersey law market as a possibility and an outside shot at nyc big law over 220k debt for most of the other schools in the new york area (outside of nyu, columbia, cornell, and a long deep soul searching conversation with myself about fordham). but if thats not possible (as its not for us) theres no shame in going to your T2 state school (which because of rutgers in-state as a 1L if you sign a lease policy means everyone)

Huge difference between a 158 and 161, though. OP, you'd be in for PT and can switch to FT after one semester. Also, I think you can have R-N consider you for both FT and PT, but don't quote me on that.

yeah but huge difference between a 3.0 and a 3.45 too... no?

What about Buffalo? You will likely get in and not be swamped in debt.

inSouthAmerica wrote: A regression to the saturated market theory however will reveal that Pennsylavania is a much more saturated Law School Market... read Duq., Pitt, PennState, Penn, Temple, Villanova, Drexel for a state that doesn't do the same level of commerce as New Jersey.

Making state-by-state comparisons doesn't work. For one thing, lumping western and eastern PA together doesn't really make any sense - Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are 300 miles apart. Those students aren't competing against each other any more than students in Philadelphia are competing with students in Newark (less than 100 miles apart).

inSouthAmerica wrote:yeah but huge difference between a 3.0 and a 3.45 too... no?

Meh, not so much. Rutgers loves to take (relatively) high LSAT candidates with comparatively low GPAs. They have the lowest gpa range of all schools in the top 100. Last cycle I got into R-N as a high gpa splitter and later asked for some scholarship money. The dean of admissions balked at the very idea, saying that the average scholarship recipient had a 3.0/163. It makes sense though, they have to offset the relatively large number of potentially low LSAT applicants they take (minorities and those accepted through "life experience" criteria, rather than an LSAT/GPA index number) with high LSAT applicants, regardless of gpa.

Back to the OP, you should be competitive with your numbers, although i wouldn't be shocked with a waitlist.