SMU Dedman Law c/o 18 Applicants Forum

[BasilHallward]

SMU's numbers are not that stellar for Texas. Quite a number of graduates seem to take advantage of their pre-law school Highland Park connections and go into business/oil and gas stuff. UT dominates Austin, Dallas, and Houston. Look at the BIG firms in Dallas; they are not littered with new SMU graduates. SMU is worth attending at a steep discount (which I didn't get). So, as much as I love Dallas, I'll be sneaking my way off of the UT waitlist... hopefully.

[BVest]

That addressed neither the question nor my response.

[thisiswater]

I would have to agree with the above sentiments. I enjoyed the school overall and it seems really solid for my goals. Did anyone happen to find out if LRW was graded?

It's graded (and 6 hours total for the year). I don't know that anyone beyond T-14 has an ungraded LRW.

Okay! Thanks! Are you a current student? If so, I was wondering if you would have any opinion on the difficulty (or ease) a person might experience that has had previous experience writing memos and briefs in undergrad? My major required class where we wrote these but I'm not sure if thats an advantage or disadvantage.

Not having written legal memos or briefs prior to law school, I can't speak to what prior experience would mean. I assume that would help, at least marginally. Unless of course those were taught to you in a manner completely unlike LRW, in which case you'll have to forget what you've learned and learn anew.

Personally, I found the most difficult part of the memo and the brief at SMU to be the extent to which they hide the ball on the actual issue you need to address, which burned a lot of time at least for me (and I'm fairly good at issue-spotter exams, but this isn't the same). (Also, weirdly, my 1L memo's two issues were 100% unrelated -- like to the point that the client might not even hire a single firm for both issues -- but that was exceptionally unusual and I don't think has been repeated since.)

either this year got lucky or maybe they recognized the issue in what they assigned y'alls class and fixed the problem. on our brief assignment they specifically said

the only matters to be discussed in any depth in the brief are 1) whether school administrators have any authority to regulate off-campus speech made by a student i.e. speech that originated off campus and was not part of a school-sponsored event, and 2) assuming that school authorities may regulate off campus speech generally, whether regulation of the particular speech that is the subject of this suit was appropriate.

I know some people who messed up their issues but i thought it was as straight-forward as possible

For any 0Ls with ungraded LW options, I would take them. LRW was really awful for me, and I did well in it. I know others who quit their jobs during it, everyone i know doubted whether law school was a good choice and i personally ended up just feeling incredibly overwhelmed and unable to deal with anything

[ilikebaseball]

btw, I'll just remind some of the new admits to check out the SMU Class of 2018 thread and check in if you think you're attending. We're currently trying to get someone to ignite the facebook page that has been completely dead relative to the other pages.

[BasilHallward]

That addressed neither the question nor my response.

I had no intentions to do so. I am assuming that you are addressing me, but you are not quoting, so it is difficult to ascertain.

[JDBound2015]

SMU's numbers are not that stellar for Texas. Quite a number of graduates seem to take advantage of their pre-law school Highland Park connections and go into business/oil and gas stuff. UT dominates Austin, Dallas, and Houston. Look at the BIG firms in Dallas; they are not littered with new SMU graduates. SMU is worth attending at a steep discount (which I didn't get). So, as much as I love Dallas, I'll be sneaking my way off of the UT waitlist... hopefully.

Based on its NALP Report for Class of 2013 (most recent available) its clear that SMU is very much a Dallas school. Out of the class of 247, 204 are employed in Texas. Keep in mind that out of that 247, only 224 actually are employed. What that means is over 91% of jobs are in Texas. To take that a step further, 134 were in Dallas, 13 in Fort Worth, 7 in Plano, and 1 in Garland. This makes 155 jobs definitely in the DFW area. There are 26 jobs listed as "Texas-Unknown" so the number can be even higher (and likely is since most of the Texas jobs are indeed in the DFW market). Regardless, we know at least 69% of the people who have jobs are working in the DFW market. Dallas is a great market for sure, but it is disappointing to see SMU have such narrow reach beyond its home market.

Additionally, I would counter you point regarding many of the jobs being dominated by "connections." Of the 224 people with jobs, 39 got it through some type of OCI program. Additionally, 78 were from jobs posted by the Career Services Office. When you look out the 63 who managed to get jobs at firms with 51+ attorneys, the numbers become even more clear. 32 (50.8%) are from OCI and 8 (12.7%) are from job postings. Only 8 (12.7%) were from referrals by a friend. Compared to many other law schools, SMU's placement by Career Services seems to be pretty good.

[ilikebaseball]

Ya I'm not really sure what you mean by it doesn't place that well in Texas. In fact, it places very well in Texas... But dallas specifically. It's a very good regional. If you wanna work in Texas, but don't want to/can't get into T14/UT, then SMU is your best bet and it's a good bet if the money is right

[justinhanahs]

My question really boils down to: Is SMU's employment outcomes really that much better than other 40s USN schools, or is a graduate of a similarly ranked school willing to seek employment in Texas likely to have similar outcomes?

I too have similar questions, is it easier to find jobs in Texas as a SMU graduate or as a graduate from a higher ranked school (25th-35th) out of state?

[thisiswater]

My question really boils down to: Is SMU's employment outcomes really that much better than other 40s USN schools, or is a graduate of a similarly ranked school willing to seek employment in Texas likely to have similar outcomes?

I too have similar questions, is it easier to find jobs in Texas as a SMU graduate or as a graduate from a higher ranked school (25th-35th) out of state?

do you have ties?

i would say generally ties+T14 > T14 no ties = UT > SMU > Other schools (including Baylor and other TX schools)

The above is for Dallas. If you are at the tippety-top of the class at SMU, there are jobs in Houston and Austin but that is not something you should count on. If you go to SMU, you must be happy with a job in Dallas

[BasilHallward]

To qualify my statement a bit:

SMU places well ONLY in DFW (not well in other Texas markets). DFW is the fastest growing area in the US, so, of course there are jobs to be had. But, when I look at big law placement in DFW, it is still dominated by UT. One should also consider UH; they place the same in Houston as SMU places in Dallas. And UH is state school thus likely to be more cost-effective.

[kalvano]

Thank you so much for that! I think it may have helped seeing as the class it was for was Legal Research and Writing for Pre-Law

I will also add that LR&W is probably the class most heavily dependent on the professor and learning their style. I had a terrible LR&W experience, but after that, I was very successful with memos and other types of legal writing.

[starry eyed]

SMU's numbers are not that stellar for Texas. Quite a number of graduates seem to take advantage of their pre-law school Highland Park connections and go into business/oil and gas stuff. UT dominates Austin, Dallas, and Houston. Look at the BIG firms in Dallas; they are not littered with new SMU graduates. SMU is worth attending at a steep discount (which I didn't get). So, as much as I love Dallas, I'll be sneaking my way off of the UT waitlist... hopefully.

since houston's employment #'s are similar would you say a good amount of them are using pre-law school connections too?

[Comet123]

I received a phone call and was accepted into SMU Law this morning!!! I will definitely attend!!!

[ilikebaseball]

I received a phone call and was accepted into SMU Law this morning!!! I will definitely attend!!!

nice! go check in to the class of 2018 thread and chime in with us

[starry eyed]

smu ranked 28th on the list of go-to firms (nlj 250).

put in perspective, it ranked 27 last year and houston ranked 42, so i think we can expect #'s on par as usual.

[BigCityDreams]

Anyone have luck with scholarship negotiations?

[Rstein888]

Applied to both part-time and full to keep my options open, they accepted me into part-time but no response at all on full. Doesn't exactly sound like a straight up rejection but kind of confused.

[ilikebaseball]

Anyone have luck with scholarship negotiations?

they don't negotiate. They'll send you a reconsideration thing and out of all of us that got it, only one person said they bumped it up "a little." (I'm very skeptical about this claim though... as immediately after they said this, the person commented that they were gonna go to a different school that was willing to offer them more money. So they may have just been slamming SMU to bum all of us that got no extra $$$ out). I think like over 10 of us said that they didn't offer any more money. I actually had a very good case, as I bumped my LSAT up from their 75th to well above it, plus I had very good offers from Houston, Baylor, and Tulane. So if they didn't bump ME up, I have trouble believing they bumped anyone up.

There's no point to filling the form out. SMU just wants to know how much other schools are offering applicants so it knows how much to offer in future cycles to remain competitive.

[BasilHallward]

SMU's numbers are not that stellar for Texas. Quite a number of graduates seem to take advantage of their pre-law school Highland Park connections and go into business/oil and gas stuff. UT dominates Austin, Dallas, and Houston. Look at the BIG firms in Dallas; they are not littered with new SMU graduates. SMU is worth attending at a steep discount (which I didn't get). So, as much as I love Dallas, I'll be sneaking my way off of the UT waitlist... hopefully.

since houston's employment #'s are similar would you say a good amount of them are using pre-law school connections too?

It's possible, but I cannot speak much to Houston (it is a public school, however), but living in Dallas, hanging out with several SMU graduates and law school graduates, I get a lot of feedback suggesting that this school tends to cater to well-heeled folks who have previously strong connections to the Dallas business apparatus. I have a few friends/acquaintances (they graduated top 50%) that woefully regret taking on a total COA of 100k to attend. Like MOST law schools, be careful with the costs and be content with staying in Dallas (which is an awesome city).
Tenuous side note:
There is a Southern Ivy complex that exists here, as if they are hot on Duke's heels; Baylor has the same deal going on.

[BasilHallward]

Anyone have luck with scholarship negotiations?

they don't negotiate. They'll send you a reconsideration thing and out of all of us that got it, only one person said they bumped it up "a little." (I'm very skeptical about this claim though... as immediately after they said this, the person commented that they were gonna go to a different school that was willing to offer them more money. So they may have just been slamming SMU to bum all of us that got no extra $$$ out). I think like over 10 of us said that they didn't offer any more money. I actually had a very good case, as I bumped my LSAT up from their 75th to well above it, plus I had very good offers from Houston, Baylor, and Tulane. So if they didn't bump ME up, I have trouble believing they bumped anyone up.

There's no point to filling the form out. SMU just wants to know how much other schools are offering applicants so it knows how much to offer in future cycles to remain competitive.

+1

I have a full ride from Baylor, near full ride from Tulane, near full ride from Wake, and they kept me at 15k a year. Completely laughable. I was only considering if they were to dole out between 30-35k a year. By the way, this reconsideration took nearly a month.

[ilikebaseball]

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 5&t=246040

New poll on the class of 2018 thread. Be ready to vote and defend your option. Yes its relevant so don't question it. There may be no more important of a survey you will ever take in your life.

[ilikebaseball]

Tenuous side note:
There is a Southern Ivy complex that exists here, as if they are hot on Duke's heels; Baylor has the same deal going on.

Don't get this vibe at all. Is the offer SMU gave causing these negative feelz or what? I haven't met a nicer group of students anywhere. One guy even stopped me on my way out to introduce himself and tell me any "con" there was about the school and to make sure that I was keeping all of those in mind when I made my decision. All of the 1L's I met were really chill. Reminded me of undergrad bros almost.

Its cool if you don't like the school or what its offer was to you, but that's just a made-up and blatantly false accusation.

[thisiswater]

There is a Southern Ivy complex that exists here, as if they are hot on Duke's heels; Baylor has the same deal going on.

As someone who has been at this school for two semesters now, I don't get that feeling at all. One of the things I like a lot about SMU is that people are honest about where we rank in the state in relation to UT and also to out of state schools. OCS has also been upfront with us about job stuff. They haven't oversold how many of us will get big law or anything

[justinhanahs]

One guy even stopped me on my way out to introduce himself and tell me any "con" there was about the school and to make sure that I was keeping all of those in mind when I made my decision.

Can you share with us what con did the student mention? I want to gather as much information as possible before I decide

[ilikebaseball]

He said that most of his classmates will have around 150k in debt (I'll be good on that end... probably be less than 50). He said that he had a lot of trouble finding a cheap place to live that wasn't infested with pests. He told me that some of the 1L professors were very boring compared to other school's classes that he sat on. He told me that he wasn't that close with his classmates but also said that isnt necessarily a bad thing and that many of his classmates have lots of friends.

He listed pros as placing very well in Dallas relative to its rank. He doesn't think there are nicer facilities or a nicer campus among any of the schools he was choosing from. He really likes the parking (there's a parking garage just for law students so he never has trouble finding parking), he likes the area, and he feels like he's going to have a positive outlook on jobs when all is said and done.