Top Law Schools

JayJones78 wrote:

cusenation wrote:

JayJones78 wrote: Would you say this list for those who want/need biglaw is more important the USnews rankings?

A thousand times yes. The US News are a measure of the incoming credentials of students and of peer-based prestige. The NLJ250 is actual student outcomes for BigLaw.

But remember it doesn't account for grads who go to BigLaw after clerkships

So what is your view that Cardozo places so high (relatevily), when looking at it together with WashU

shntn wrote:

JayJones78 wrote:

cusenation wrote:

JayJones78 wrote: Would you say this list for those who want/need biglaw is more important the USnews rankings?

A thousand times yes. The US News are a measure of the incoming credentials of students and of peer-based prestige. The NLJ250 is actual student outcomes for BigLaw.

But remember it doesn't account for grads who go to BigLaw after clerkships

So what is your view that Cardozo places so high (relatevily), when looking at it together with WashU

Alumni base and location in NYC.

wannabelawstudent wrote:Can someone explain the American hate?

goldeneye wrote:

wannabelawstudent wrote:Can someone explain the American hate?

http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... ategy.html

they game the system more than most schools. competitive market, huge class, expensive.

shntn wrote:

goldeneye wrote:

wannabelawstudent wrote:Can someone explain the American hate?

http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... ategy.html

they game the system more than most schools. competitive market, huge class, expensive.

It pains me to think how seriously I was considering attending back in the day.

shntn wrote:

goldeneye wrote:

wannabelawstudent wrote:Can someone explain the American hate?

http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... ategy.html

they game the system more than most schools. competitive market, huge class, expensive.

It pains me to think how seriously I was considering attending back in the day.

dproduct wrote:I hope WUSTL pulls a UVA this cycle.

shntn wrote:

dproduct wrote:I hope WUSTL pulls a UVA this cycle.

Except for the part where they change tacks midcycle and start acting all crazy.

JayJones78 wrote:

cusenation wrote:

JayJones78 wrote: Would you say this list for those who want/need biglaw is more important the USnews rankings?

A thousand times yes. The US News are a measure of the incoming credentials of students and of peer-based prestige. The NLJ250 is actual student outcomes for BigLaw.

But remember it doesn't account for grads who go to BigLaw after clerkships

So what is your view that Cardozo places so high (relatevily), when looking at it together with WashU

... I don't really get why the hate towards Cardozo when (at least it looks as) their grads who do well (and that's similar to almost any non t14 grads) do just fine. I think the fact that they rank there almost 20 some spots higher than their usnews ranking speaks volumes. I don't think one should choose cardozo over WashU if they are not 100 percent sure they want NYC

somewhatwayward wrote: Given these numbers, and without information about quality of jobs obtained, I think Cardozo makes more sense (although it does not make sense in an absolute sense) because you are getting basically the same placement while competing against a less qualified student body and probably getting more scholarship money since Cardozo will pay for a 165 while WUSTL will probably reject that person, forget a scholarship. The caveat is, as you point out, that if you don't want NYC, Cardozo will definitely be a bad choice. In that case, though, I might look to lower T1 schools with scholarships over WUSTL if the employment figures are similar. It sucks to be trying to best 80-90% of your class when your class is as smart as the classes WUSTL is taking.

The reason Cardozo gets shit, though, is because even though it places 15% into big law + clerkships, besting many higher-ranked schools, it doesn't produce good outcomes for the vast majority of the other students, and it is really, really expensive, partially because of COL in NYC but also because it charges way more tuition than it has business charging. Cardozo may be beating other schools but those other schools are doing so poorly that beating them doesn't mean much. Also, as with WUSTL, other schools that aren't in major metropolitan areas may place some of their class into decent firms that aren't NLJ 250, so their numbers are somewhat deflated.

Randomnumbers wrote:

somewhatwayward wrote: Given these numbers, and without information about quality of jobs obtained, I think Cardozo makes more sense (although it does not make sense in an absolute sense) because you are getting basically the same placement while competing against a less qualified student body and probably getting more scholarship money since Cardozo will pay for a 165 while WUSTL will probably reject that person, forget a scholarship. The caveat is, as you point out, that if you don't want NYC, Cardozo will definitely be a bad choice. In that case, though, I might look to lower T1 schools with scholarships over WUSTL if the employment figures are similar. It sucks to be trying to best 80-90% of your class when your class is as smart as the classes WUSTL is taking.

The reason Cardozo gets shit, though, is because even though it places 15% into big law + clerkships, besting many higher-ranked schools, it doesn't produce good outcomes for the vast majority of the other students, and it is really, really expensive, partially because of COL in NYC but also because it charges way more tuition than it has business charging. Cardozo may be beating other schools but those other schools are doing so poorly that beating them doesn't mean much. Also, as with WUSTL, other schools that aren't in major metropolitan areas may place some of their class into decent firms that aren't NLJ 250, so their numbers are somewhat deflated.

You can't count on doing better because of the 'quality of the student body'. The difference between a 166 and a 165 on the LSAT when it comes to taking law school exams is meaningless. At both places you'll be competing against very intelligent and motivated people - and you have no way of knowing how you will be at law school exams until you start taking them. Your logic here is very flawed.

Crowing wrote:Yeah Dozo (and other NYC schools below Fordham) get shit on constantly mainly due to cost. On top of NYC CoL Dozo's tuition is like 50k/year.

goldeneye wrote:I got off the WL at Fordham last year. No scholly money that late. No thank you. COA was near 70k at that rate. I'll take STL cost of living and scholly at WUSTL.

the less you spend in law school, in theory, the more flexible you can be in looking for legal jobs.

dproduct wrote:

goldeneye wrote:I got off the WL at Fordham last year. No scholly money that late. No thank you. COA was near 70k at that rate. I'll take STL cost of living and scholly at WUSTL.

the less you spend in law school, in theory, the more flexible you can be in looking for legal jobs.

Something that is not stated quite enough on this website.

timeandspace11 wrote:New York is definitely rough with rent, but isnt it possible to find something "relatively" affordable in Brooklyn if you have roommates? I understand a studio apartment or a 1 bedroom is out of the question, but roommates may drive the cost down

shifty_eyed wrote:

timeandspace11 wrote:New York is definitely rough with rent, but isnt it possible to find something "relatively" affordable in Brooklyn if you have roommates? I understand a studio apartment or a 1 bedroom is out of the question, but roommates may drive the cost down

I think you also have to consider quality of life. If you are paying the same to live with 3 roommates in Brooklyn as you would be to live alone within walking distance to school, some might choose the lower COL school. Of course, there are those who LOVE the NYC experience and may find it worth it.