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Posted: **Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:30 pm**

Looks like MSU's attrition rate is about 15% as well: --LinkRemoved--

Posted: **Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:34 pm**

Ahh...thanks for that, Bildungsroman. Now that I think of it, attrition rate might not actually be too much of a problem for any school.

Posted: **Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:38 pm**

Do you have any connections to either place, or a preference?

Posted: **Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:42 pm**

Damascus wrote:Hey, everybody. So, I’m kind of stuck trying to make this decision. Here’s why:

I have been accepted to U of New Hampshire with a $10,000 scholarship renewable each year. I applied to MSU’s LEO Program for the hell of it and have been accepted, which requires me to pay approx. $1,500, out of pocket, for two courses to basically “assess” me—a.k.a. see if I can handle the work.

So, my problem w/ MSU is that I won’t really know if I’ll be accepted until after the LEO program and I think scholarship info might be questionable until then, I will call tomorrow morning to find out. The information I have says about 75% of students in the LEO program are accepted. As for UNH, the 15% attrition rate is a little scary and tuition is pretty far up on the scary meter.

Here are some of the pros and cons I’ve considered so far for each school:

UNH
Pro
Definitely accepted
Merger w/ UNH
Potential to rise in the ranks
Potential salary (though it may be questionable)

Con
New $39k plus tuition
Bar passage rates are a little low
Attrition rate

MSU
Pro
Relatively new merger w/ MSU
About $11,000 cheaper in tuition
Pretty awesome looking campus (although this can be a con)

Con
Acceptance and aid is questionable (though I feel I’ll do fine)
An extra $1,500 out of pocket

I’m sure I’m missing some stuff here…
I’m not sure where the two schools stand relative to each other but I would hate to go through the MSU program only to find out I won’t get much aid or even accepted. Then again, I will only qualify for need-based aid.

Any thoughts?

You seem to intelligent for either of these options. Retake?

Posted: **Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:44 pm**

None--which is why it's tough. I'm actually from California and I'm willing to stick around wherever I end up for some time but I'd probably like to come back eventually. At least for a little while.

I don't think I'd mind ending up in Illinois, Colorado, Oregon, or NY either.

Posted: **Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:04 pm**

Thanks, SrLaw. I would love to retake but I'm unable to.

Posted: **Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:33 pm**

Please don't go to either of these schools because you don't have money now. If you think you can retake and do better, you are selling yourself short by not going to as good of a school. If you can't retake and do better, I still don't know what to tell you for sure. (I think that retaking should almost always be an option, because I don't think someone should go to law school in a situation where they are not in the best school they can get into.)

But, money wise, I would take the classes and see if I can "do" the work at MSU. Even though it seems silly to pay for the classes, it will give you a chance to see what you can do--and if you want law school -- before you undertake the huge financial burden of law school.

I think you need to maybe let your parents know that law school is now so expensive that it can actually leave you in a bigger financial hole than where you started out. So financially, life could actually be worse than it is right now.

By the way, the economy is terrible though it may be improving. Many, many people are having financial problems, so you are not alone with that issue facing your family. But that makes it even more essential to make good decisions now that will not put you in a worse position. That said, is there any job you can find? Or any ideas you can come up with to help ease the financial burden?

Posted: **Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:45 pm**

rose711 wrote:Please don't go to either of these schools because you don't have money now. If you think you can retake and do better, you are selling yourself short by not going to as good of a school. If you can't retake and do better, I still don't know what to tell you for sure. (I think that retaking should almost always be an option, because I don't think someone should go to law school in a situation where they are not in the best school they can get into.)

But, money wise, I would take the classes and see if I can "do" the work at MSU. Even though it seems silly to pay for the classes, it will give you a chance to see what you can do--and if you want law school -- before you undertake the huge financial burden of law school.

I think you need to maybe let your parents know that law school is now so expensive that it can actually leave you in a bigger financial hole than where you started out. So financially, life could actually be worse than it is right now.

By the way, the economy is terrible though it may be improving. Many, many people are having financial problems, so you are not alone with that issue facing your family. But that makes it even more essential to make good decisions now that will not put you in a worse position. That said, is there any job you can find? Or any ideas you can come up with to help ease the financial burden?

I totally get what you mean, and you're absolutely right. I know I can definitely do the work, I think I was pushed toward LEO b/c of my test score.

I'm also waiting to hear from Hastings but I'm not really counting on them right now. If I can get it, then that'll be great, though.

Posted: **Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:01 pm**

Damascus wrote:Hey, everybody. So, I’m kind of stuck trying to make this decision. Here’s why:

I have been accepted to U of New Hampshire with a $10,000 scholarship renewable each year. I applied to MSU’s LEO Program for the hell of it and have been accepted, which requires me to pay approx. $1,500, out of pocket, for two courses to basically “assess” me—a.k.a. see if I can handle the work.

So, my problem w/ MSU is that I won’t really know if I’ll be accepted until after the LEO program and I think scholarship info might be questionable until then, I will call tomorrow morning to find out. The information I have says about 75% of students in the LEO program are accepted. As for UNH, the 15% attrition rate is a little scary and tuition is pretty far up on the scary meter.

Here are some of the pros and cons I’ve considered so far for each school:

UNH
Pro
Definitely accepted
Merger w/ UNH
Potential to rise in the ranks
Potential salary (though it may be questionable)

Con
New $39k plus tuition
Bar passage rates are a little low
Attrition rate

MSU
Pro
Relatively new merger w/ MSU
About $11,000 cheaper in tuition
Pretty awesome looking campus (although this can be a con)

Con
Acceptance and aid is questionable (though I feel I’ll do fine)
An extra $1,500 out of pocket

I’m sure I’m missing some stuff here…
I’m not sure where the two schools stand relative to each other but I would hate to go through the MSU program only to find out I won’t get much aid or even accepted. Then again, I will only qualify for need-based aid.

Any thoughts?

I have looked at both these schools and thought I'd offer my input. Although I was not impressed by Franklin Pierce (aka UNH Law) there is another huge upside you are not considering. They have a program, if you are willing to practice in New Hampshire, that would allow you to graduate and not have to take the NH BAR, so if standardized tests are not your thing, you may want to look in to this program. Additionally, I have also looked at MSU and don't know how the LEO program works but I do know that housing is an issue, especially during summer months as the housing market operates on the undergraduate schedule and not first year law schedules which require 1Ls to be there earlier in August then leases are typically available. My other problem with UNH was the 45 minute drive to the campus if I wanted to do a joint degree. We all know MSU has very well respected graduate programs, i.e. their nationally ranked MBA, but it is also important to consider the law school is on the same campus as the rest of the graduate programs. At UNH, they aren't close in ranking nor are they close physically but if you aren't considering joint degrees it may not matter. The big upside to UNH is they are the only law school in New Hampshire, and they are close to Boston if you do well enough that may be an accessible market which is not the same as the 90 minute drive to Detroit or working in Lansing.

Posted: **Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:24 pm**

I would try to take a look at New Hampshire and MSU before makiing adecision. NH is very small, and not a lot is going on. MSU has more of a city feel to it- but you will be working in michigan afterwords. Dont run to a law school to run away from money issues. Your best bet would be to savfe some more moeny- work, and do more research and make a commitment next cycle. That way you can be as informed as possible. To get your parents off your back- maybe move in with friends?

Posted: **Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:06 pm**

You have to what is best for you! Don't be afraid to follow your dream, but make sure you know all that there is not know about both schools. I am attending the Michigan State LEO program because it will provide me a brief look at top-law-schools.com for a measly $1350. I also think that Michigan State has a lot of upside as they are now ranked in the top 100 law schools per US News. Hey it will at least get you out of your folks house for 5 weeks

Posted: **Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:23 pm**

If it were my, I'd choose University of New Hampshire. It just became an official law school in 2010, and is already known for being the 4th-best law school for IP. I believe MSU has been around for a while and is not considered that great. This means that, down the road, a degree from UNH may be more valuable.

Posted: **Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:24 pm**

Sorry for the late reply, everybody, and thank you for the responses. I greatly appreciate it. I won't be able to retake, so I'll be choosing between these schools (unless something magical happened and Hastings were to accept me). I am absolutely not basing my decision on trying to get away from my folks though, I was just mostly venting. I just want to get in to the best school that accepts me.

Also, I sent Ken a message earlier this week asking for his thoughts on the UNH merger, and about MSU. Here's what he had to say:

"I do see the merger as win-win because Franklin Pierce has a great IP program but not the name recognition outside of that field. Thus, the merger is overall a positive. But Michigan State U. has a stronger name [than] UNH so while some synergies will result from the merger, perhaps not as much of a benefit as merging with Michigan State."

UNH seems to have better placement nationwide than MSU, but probably not too much of a difference. I'm also currently interested in IP...but things always change.

I hear it's best to go to the highest ranked school, overall, which makes sense. It's hard to tell how things will turn out in the future, of course, but it seems like MSU might become better known nationwide--making it better for placement nationwide.

Posted: **Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:25 pm**

Sorry if my thoughts are scattered on that last post. I just had my wisdom teeth extracted and I'm pretty loopy right now.

Posted: **Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:41 am**

I will throw in my two cents as an MSU student. The IP department here is also pretty darn good, and those that focus on IP Law from Michigan State do not seem to have the problems in finding employment after graduation.

Posted: **Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:42 pm**

Thanks jne381 and dwilson81.

Posted: **Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:35 pm**

I'm interested in hearing if the OP has made a decision on which school to choose... because I'm in a similar situation. Thanks!

Posted: **Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:42 am**

eudaimonia wrote:I'm interested in hearing if the OP has made a decision on which school to choose... because I'm in a similar situation. Thanks!

The OP?

Posted: **Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:37 pm**

Damascus wrote:
eudaimonia wrote:I'm interested in hearing if the OP has made a decision on which school to choose... because I'm in a similar situation. Thanks!
The OP?

The original person who made the post.. you

Posted: **Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:45 pm**

Just wondering why you can't retake? You say you want to retake but you just can't is there any specific reason?

Posted: **Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:01 pm**

Anybody else know anything about MSU's LEO program? I am attending!

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