Case Western Reserve University School of Law 2011 Forum

[bport hopeful]

Case is in its own market.

false.

[bport hopeful]

Hilarious claim

Insults, displays of incredulousness

Calling a douchebag a douchebag

self-defense of acts of douchebaggery, insults of peer school

Insults of crappy midwestern town by somebody in another crappy midwestern town

I love you guys. Keeps me coming back!

In my defense, he is a douchebag, and Pittsburgh isnt crappy.

There is a high level of dbagging on this site, but dude took the cake, I could stand no more.

Then he called my out on my school of choice. Not taking that shit without some words.

Am I wrong here?

[dstr15]

How safe is it to walk around University Circle at night, or from the law school up to Coventry/ little italy? I forgot to ask that question a the admitted students thing and am wondering if any current students can chime in?

I would say it is pretty safe. On campus it is safe; plenty of security officers and what not. As you get toward the fringe, increasingly less safe (there were probably 5 reported instances of muggings and what not during the course of the year). However, Case offers "safe ride" which is a essentially a taxi service (free) that will pick you up and take you to where you need to go until 2am. They have a range that includes little italy, but not coventry. So, its like any city, but certainly I've never been too scared. Follow the usual advice, walk in groups, in well lit places and non-ridiculous hours and you'll be fine.

Thank you, that's the impression I got when I visited. I want to feel comfortable walking to class and back.

[Paste_Me]

Did everyone on the wait list get an e-mail from the admissions office today?

[hds2388]

Case is in its own market.

false.

Is Cleveland no longer a legal market?

[wileyman02]

I like to think I'm more of a son of a bitch. And I love how you're calling me an asshole-- the guy (sorry, I'll use 'guy' or 'man' henceforth to avoid sounding "douchey") who thinks he's god's gift to law schools ("it's not a gift, they want me, blah blah...I'm a special snowflake, that's why I'm going to Pitt Law").

No shit it wasn't a photo. As you might recall, I was the one who asked him for screenshots. I'm well aware they're not the same thing as cut-and-pasted postings. I was willing to accept his cut-and-paste letters at face value. Because yeah, it would be so much less douchey to continue calling him out at that point. Sorry for really not putting much weight in the idea that he might have gone to the trouble of borrowing a Case acceptance letter from a friend or that he scoured the internet in search of one just to get the wording down verbatim, Detective Bport.

And it means so much to me that some anonymous assclown on the internet thinks I'm an asshole. Really. You know, if you ever wanted to meet up in person and call me an asshole to my face, I might feel differently.

Listen guy, just go back to your Pitt thread, aka the land of tier-two students with T14 egos. You fit right in there. Thanks god you were unwilling to deign yourself to enrolling at Case.

Its more douchey to make such a big deal about rejecting what the guy said, make a big deal about needing some kind of proof, and then to accept that as proof (no offense to the guy who you called out, I believed you from the start).

Haha its not a gift dude. They want me, not the other way around, or id be going there.

Also, nice try calling me out on my school of choice. Im going to Pitt because thats where I want to live. Cleveland is essentially America's Norther Butthole. By all means, enjoy that. (and so theres no confusion, Ive spent time there, I know. For Gods sake, the Flatts arent even there anymore). Also, Pitt is in its own market. Can you say that about Case? And for the record, I got into T30 law progams on scholly.

U mad?

Case isn't its own market? Yeah man, those Cleveland State grads are just crushing the legal market in that city. Give me a break. Cleveland State is to Case what Duquesne is to Pitt Law. You have absolutely no argument there. Look, I know I hurt your feelings, but don't let your emotions get in the way; they're making you say some pretty foolish things.

"And for the record, I got into T30 law programs on scholly." HAHA, and then you follow that up with this post: "Also, since when do Pitt students have t14 egos?" Dude, you guys spent like 3 pages ripping on Penn State Law, talking about what a better school Pitt is. The same Penn State that just blew past Pitt in the latest rankings. (Actually, I'm pretty sure that's what set off the PSU bashing.) Big, big egos with very little security. I called you out about Pitt Law after you spent all that time in this thread ripping on Cleveland and talking about how desperate Case looked by offering to increase people's scholarship awards. You obviously care about reputation A LOT (regardless of what you say about your choice being a calculated decision), so I just find it amusing that you're going Pitt Law.

And then you ask me if I'm mad (I can't believe you actually wrote, "U Mad?") because, having similar numbers to you, I obviously didn't have the same quality of choices in law schools and scholarships as you had. No, I just don't need to flaunt it in every thread that I got generous merit aid from T2 schools because I actually realize HOW IDIOTIC THAT WOULD BE. YOU'RE ON TLS, DUDE--like 90% of the people here got the same offers you did. No one cares.

[wileyman02]

Case is in its own market.

false.

Just stop. No reason to take your anger out on other people now, too.

[bport hopeful]

What about OSU? A lot of schools place decent in Cleveland, only Pitt places in Pittsburgh. And I only said something because you bashed my school choice. The things Ive said are true. And my decision was calculated.


And I had nothing to do with the PSU bashing, didnt even know it occurred. And the rankings dont mean anything at the level. They are all TT schools so bringing up the rankings is rediculous.

For what its worth, I dont want this to turn into a Case v. Pitt argument (though all that needs to be said is that Case is in Cleveland), I just wanted to let it be known that you are an asshole, and you proved it by doing the asshole thing and bashing my school choice. You are a penis.

[wileyman02]

What about OSU? A lot of schools place decent in Cleveland, only Pitt places in Pittsburgh. And I only said something because you bashed my school choice. The things Ive said are true. And my decision was calculated.


And I had nothing to do with the PSU bashing, didnt even know it occurred. And the rankings dont mean anything at the level. They are all TT schools so bringing up the rankings is rediculous.

For what its worth, I dont want this to turn into a Case v. Pitt argument (though all that needs to be said is that Case is in Cleveland), I just wanted to let it be known that you are an asshole, and you proved it by doing the asshole thing and bashing my school choice. You are a penis.

Am I an asshole or a penis?? Now you're just confusing me

[dailygrind]

Enough. Take it elsewhere guys.

If this starts up again, someone tell me and I will ban the offending party.

[charlesjd]

.

[bport hopeful]

That's cool, but we must really be hurting for people if we're calling back people who rejected us.

yeah this also makes me hesitant

I would not be so fast to think it is a "bad" thing. It may be that Case is happy with its class, but wants more money or even to improve more. Maybe they want more tuition. Also, remember the Deanship changed after you were rejected -- and the whole strategy of admissions changed with that. So since you got a 166 -- whereas the first dean yield protected -- the current dean was like lets grab this guy because our game is stepped up. If they are going to give you $$$$, I think you should really consider Case. This new dean is all about getting the rankings up to at least a top 40, if not 30 -- and re-accepting you based on your numbers makes sense to me.

Yeah, i hear ya. Its not that it has to be a bad thing, its just that theres a lot of weird stuff going on that makes me at least think that there could be something negative going on.

[charlesjd]

.

[bport hopeful]

In the end, the money isnt enough to make me want to move to Cleveland, but I appreciate the thought.

[lawapp11]

The new dean took over June 1. Unless he provided guidance to the Admissions Office prior to the start of his tenure as dean, I'm not sure if he had any influence over the decision to admit previously rejected people. Most of the previously rejected applicants were admitted in May, not June. Of course, I still think your theory is plausible. We can only speculate.

[bport hopeful]

The new dean took over June 1. Unless he provided guidance to the Admissions Office prior to the start of his tenure as dean, I'm not sure if he had any influence over the decision to admit previously rejected people. Most of the previously rejected applicants were admitted in May, not June. Of course, I still think your theory is plausible. We can only speculate.

FWIW, he did call me before he officially took his position.

[Ersatz Haderach]

That's cool, but we must really be hurting for people if we're calling back people who rejected us.

yeah this also makes me hesitant

I would not be so fast to think it is a "bad" thing. It may be that Case is happy with its class, but wants more money or even to improve more. Maybe they want more tuition. Also, remember the Deanship changed after you were rejected -- and the whole strategy of admissions changed with that. So since you got a 166 -- whereas the first dean yield protected -- the current dean was like lets grab this guy because our game is stepped up. If they are going to give you $$$$, I think you should really consider Case. This new dean is all about getting the rankings up to at least a top 40, if not 30 -- and re-accepting you based on your numbers makes sense to me.

Yeah, i hear ya. Its not that it has to be a bad thing, its just that theres a lot of weird stuff going on that makes me at least think that there could be something negative going on.

I honestly think it's the new Dean. He came in talking big and saying, over and over, that he'd be incredibly aggressive in things like this. It does not surprise me at all, even that he'd be on the phone before he took the job officially. I like the guy, we'll see if he gets results.

Rawson didn't YP high LSATs, AFAIK, unless you didn't do the interview for some reason.

RE: Cleveland as its own legal market. Technically, yes, but it's not nearly as big as it used to be. Pittsburgh Metro now has slightly more lawyers than Greater Cleveland, and there's some question as to what big guns like Squire Sanders will do in the future (haven't hired more than a few SAs in years). There is a pretty significant local government contingent and the federal courthouse, but the law firm numbers are stagnant and so is hiring. Experienced lawyers might have a better time of it. A few firms, like Benesch, are hiring. Non-Mid/Big Law, I don't really know.

[wileyman02]

That's cool, but we must really be hurting for people if we're calling back people who rejected us.

yeah this also makes me hesitant

I would not be so fast to think it is a "bad" thing. It may be that Case is happy with its class, but wants more money or even to improve more. Maybe they want more tuition. Also, remember the Deanship changed after you were rejected -- and the whole strategy of admissions changed with that. So since you got a 166 -- whereas the first dean yield protected -- the current dean was like lets grab this guy because our game is stepped up. If they are going to give you $$$$, I think you should really consider Case. This new dean is all about getting the rankings up to at least a top 40, if not 30 -- and re-accepting you based on your numbers makes sense to me.

Yeah, i hear ya. Its not that it has to be a bad thing, its just that theres a lot of weird stuff going on that makes me at least think that there could be something negative going on.

I honestly think it's the new Dean. He came in talking big and saying, over and over, that he'd be incredibly aggressive in things like this. It does not surprise me at all, even that he'd be on the phone before he took the job officially. I like the guy, we'll see if he gets results.

Rawson didn't YP high LSATs, AFAIK, unless you didn't do the interview for some reason.

RE: Cleveland as its own legal market. Technically, yes, but it's not nearly as big as it used to be. Pittsburgh Metro now has slightly more lawyers than Greater Cleveland, and there's some question as to what big guns like Squire Sanders will do in the future (haven't hired more than a few SAs in years). There is a pretty significant local government contingent and the federal courthouse, but the law firm numbers are stagnant and so is hiring. Experienced lawyers might have a better time of it. A few firms, like Benesch, are hiring. Non-Mid/Big Law, I don't really know.[/quote]


Just to clear up, Bport is not the person who was accepted after being rejected; he got in with $$ the first time. The dean then got in touch with him to offer an increase in his scholly. Jehu is the one who had his rejected application reconsidered. But anyway, Jehu's numbers ARE pretty solid (we talked over PM) and he probably should have been an admit on the first read of his app (or at the very least waitlisted). Not sure though if it was a YP b/c he passed up a phone interview (which, BTW, I'm guessing the new dean thinks is a pretty dumb YP strategy. And I agree. I mean, denying someone with good numbers just b/c they didn't call back for a phone interview? Bananas. Any of you guys see last year's forum? This happened to at least a few people. I know it's just a phone call, but still. I'm sure there are better ways to YP). And yes, the situation makes a lot more sense after learning that the new dean has been meddling in admissions, which I'm not saying is a bad thing. That said, I can see how his aggressive and radical moves could be perceived as desperation. Based on the turnout for Entering Students Day though, I wouldn't say Case is struggling to enroll students this year.

Ersatz, thanks for all the insider info. Your posts are really helpful (unlike my last 5 or so). So the original argument--correct me if I'm wrong, Bport, my sworn enemy--was whether or not CASE was its own legal market, i.e. does it compete with other schools for the Cleveland market. A few of us said yes, it was its own market, and Bport countered with OSU. OSU though is Central Ohio. Obviously it has a stronghold on Columbus, and beyond that it has Cleveland AND Cincinnati as far as major cities in the state go. I don't think of OSU as a school of the Cleveland market. It would be like saying Pitt Law isn't its own market because of Penn State, and that's not really true.

[kristyk]

I got an email from Case three days ago. This school is in my range considering my test score last October. To be fair though, I stopped reading the email when I noticed the typo in the first sentence. Will definitely consider this school though if my score is not improved this October. I have heard mixed things about Cleveland. Some of which sound like they would fit my personality well.

Lol, I'm assuming we got the same email. The 'D' is missing on continue!

Yeah, you know, I minored in english in undergrad and we constantly talked about how little mistakes were NOTHING but in this context, I mean..I just...COME ON. It's a mass-email and they can't even proof-read the first sentence? If a sentence in the middle of the email had a typo I would not have even commented. But the FIRST SENTENCE? Come on, I'm sorry but that is just unaccetable.

To be honest, I do sense a feeling of desperation. I've followed Case from a limited viewpoint and have seen some other things that struck me as *flags*. By no means though, I want to add, does this mean that I won't consider the school. I'm currently in a situation where Case would be a decent option for me (if I don't improve this October).

Just these little things; they really do create negative impressions.

Again though, I want to stress that this is a decent school and I am not trying to say that this university is by and large a bad choice. I simply would like to see professional emails when contacts are made. I want them to put in an effort when contacting me. How can I take them seriously if they fail to take me seriously or put little effort into it?

I didn't see this email from Case (or maybe I didn't notice the spelling mistake) but I had a similar experience with a letter I received in the mail from Pittsburgh, and it REALLY irked me. So I can understand where you're coming from.

[bport hopeful]

My understanding about the interviews was that if you skipped it, you got dinged. I really dont understand this though, the interview was a joke. Mine lasted 5 minutes and I was only asked two questions.

"Why are you considering Case?"
"Do you have any questions?"

Bport, my sworn enemy--was whether or not CASE was its own legal market, i.e. does it compete with other schools for the Cleveland market. A few of us said yes, it was its own market, and Bport countered with OSU. OSU though is Central Ohio. Obviously it has a stronghold on Columbus, and beyond that it has Cleveland AND Cincinnati as far as major cities in the state go. I don't think of OSU as a school of the Cleveland market. It would be like saying Pitt Law isn't its own market because of Penn State, and that's not really true.

Werent we instructed to drop this?

[IHaveLawyers]

Is anyone still on the waitlist?

[DorothyV]

The new dean took over June 1. Unless he provided guidance to the Admissions Office prior to the start of his tenure as dean, I'm not sure if he had any influence over the decision to admit previously rejected people. Most of the previously rejected applicants were admitted in May, not June. Of course, I still think your theory is plausible. We can only speculate.

At Entering Students day, I talked to the lady in charge of fundraising for the law school. She told me that the new dean had been spending several days a week at the school prior to his official takeover. He had also asked for an additional $1 million in scholarship money to use on the entering class. In his speech that day, the new dean said that his goal was to eventually make Case a top twenty law school. (Pretty unrealistic, but I admire his drive). I, for one, am impressed by his aggressiveness in trying to up the incoming classes numbers.

[ca$hmoney69]

Hilarious claim

Insults, displays of incredulousness

Calling a douchebag a douchebag

self-defense of acts of douchebaggery, insults of peer school

Insults of crappy midwestern town by somebody in another crappy midwestern town

I love you guys. Keeps me coming back!

In my defense, he is a douchebag, and Pittsburgh isnt crappy.

There is a high level of dbagging on this site, but dude took the cake, I could stand no more.

Then he called my out on my school of choice. Not taking that shit without some words.

Am I wrong here?

fuck this guy... i turned down Pitt because it had a shitty vibe. i would ask him though to please leave this page to people with questions about Case, all of whom could care less about his bitching.

[bport hopeful]

fuck this guy... i turned down Pitt because it had a shitty vibe. i would ask him though to please leave this page to people with questions about Case, all of whom could care less about his bitching.

To all of you who are Case bound, I am not here to bash Case, but that guy called me out on my school choice, and as far as leaving the thread, Ive brought more here than you have so you may proceed to fellash me.

[Ersatz Haderach]

Mitchell was saying the T20 stuff from the first day he got here to interview. I was incredulous (still am) but liked him otherwise. Hey, aim high.

The law school wasn't in great financial shape this year because of the number of people who accepted large scholarships, and yet didn't move up in the rankings, so that was the motivation to have a new strategy. The Dean candidates were diverse, ranging from the hyper-aggressive Mitchell, who was eventually hired, to more sedate candidates including one guy who basically said, I don't know, let's build a new building, and another who said we should focus only on competing with OSU.

Mitchell specifically said if he was given any new sum of money, he'd spend it on student scholarships and faculty and virtually nothing else until he thinks both are trending in the right direction. CWRU (the entire institution) has a very large endowment and President Snyder indicated she had earmarked an unknown but substantial sum for Mitchell to use as an initial war chest. He was present at the school many weeks before his official job began on June 1st.

We can talk about this all day, but rest assured, they picked the right guy. Lawrence Mitchell is a baller.

Bport: That's totally right about the interview. They really just want you to take the few minutes to bother speaking with them, and generally that removes you from YP territory.

Wiley: There are certainly some interesting 'best practices' going on in the admissions office, and I for one welcome any 'meddling' by Dean Mitchell. Let's please just drop the perception discussion because it's gotten this thread into trouble already.

OSU is a school that is in every Ohio market. So is Case, but less so. I have personally been told by a local biglaw partner that they will look at the top 25% or so at OSU and the top 15% or so at Case. Whether this translates to smaller firms is anyone's guess, but the hiring is less rigid the farther 'down' you go. But Case does not really have much of a leg up on OSU, even in Cleveland, outside of alumni connections, and it's up to students to cultivate those ourselves, because Case's alumni base has been mostly ignored by the administration for the last decade. Hopefully that will change.

long post, sorry.