Top Law Schools

Hi everyone,

I'm really stuck on making a decision.

My options are Willamette with a 24k scholarship (8/yr and must maintain a 2.9 GPA) vs. Toledo with a 91k scholarship (30/yr and must maintain a 2.5 GPA, most other scholarships at Toledo have a 3.3. requirement). I have enough saved up to cover 2 years of living expenses, so that becomes a wash between the two, meaning the debt before interest for 3 years to go to Willamette would be about $80k vs. $15k for Toledo.

I've visited both schools, and the facilities at Willamette were far more impressive. I also prefer the class selection at Willamette. I'm from San Diego, and have lived briefly in the NW, and I think I'd like to end up out on the West Coast (not 100% sure though). I'm leaning towards Willamette, but can't keep wondering I'd be a fool for passing up an almost free ride.

Thoughts?

If you want to end up on the West Coast, Willamette it is. I have no idea how Toledo places on the West Coast, but I can't imagine it's anything short of abysmal. Good luck.

Anyone else?

Toledo wont offer you much on the West Coast. You'd more than likely have to stick in the Midwest/Ohio area. Just take the 24k. Thats really good and you should be proud of yourself. A near free ride is good, but the school just doesnt match what you want. If you were a farmer that only used big manly trucks, would you accept a free VW Beetle? It'd be nice, but you have no use for it. You need a truck, not a Beetle. So you'd have to turn it down. Kind of a strange analogy, but it somewhat works. Haha.

Good luck!

sneakpreview wrote:Hi everyone,

I'm really stuck on making a decision.

Read it initially as "I really suck at making a decision."



Go with Williamette.

Willamette's facilities were nice, the incoming students I've met are cool, and the area is somewhere I could be for a few years.

Toledo was a lot nicer than I thought, although the law facilities were sub-par (compared to Willamette). I'm slightly worried job prospects transitioning back to the West. Despite all this, walking out of Toledo with zero debt is incredibly enticing...

I guess what it boils down to is quality of life/region vs. cost. I'm honestly 50/50, and I have to decide this week. Wish there was one that clearly stood out as a better option!

Anyone else?

Mediocre scholarships with stipulations at very poor schools. I would recommend neither.

If you would change your goals to Ohio and remove the scholarship stipulation, I might say going to Toledo wouldn't be the world's worst decision. But considering your goals, the poor caliber of these schools, and the scholarships with stipulations, I'd say run away from both of these offers.

toledo

You are lucky the veteran wolves have not stumbled upon this thread.

Obviously there are plenty of people on here who say unless you go to T14 or better, don't go to law school.

I 29, have my MBA, am very successful in my career, and am just looking to shift gears. I could care less about big law or huge salaries. I have 100% confidence that I'll be successful no matter which school I go to.

sneakpreview wrote:Obviously there are plenty of people on here who say unless you go to T14 or better, don't go to law school.

I 29, have my MBA, am very successful in my career, and am just looking to shift gears. I could care less about big law or huge salaries. I have 100% confidence that I'll be successful no matter which school I go to.

Might I ask... why do you want a law degree? (Not asking in a pretentious way... just trying to get information on your background)

romothesavior wrote:

sneakpreview wrote:Obviously there are plenty of people on here who say unless you go to T14 or better, don't go to law school.

I 29, have my MBA, am very successful in my career, and am just looking to shift gears. I could care less about big law or huge salaries. I have 100% confidence that I'll be successful no matter which school I go to.

Might I ask... why do you want a law degree? (Not asking in a pretentious way... just trying to get information on your background)

I currently work in insurance, and there's a lot of opportunity in the claims/coverage arena. My background is in sports management, so I'd love to get into contract work (ADR, etc.). I'm also interested in environmental law. Later down the road a law degree would open more doors (teaching, consulting, etc.). Plus I've always wanted to go to law school, it's a perfect time in my professional/personal life to do it.

sneakpreview wrote:
I currently work in insurance, and there's a lot of opportunity in the claims/coverage arena. My background is in sports management, so I'd love to get into contract work (ADR, etc.). I'm also interested in environmental law. Later down the road a law degree would open more doors (teaching, consulting, etc.). Plus I've always wanted to go to law school, it's a perfect time in my professional/personal life to do it.

That's a lie and you know it.

GossipGirl2002, believe it or not I actually have wanted to be an attorney...the timing just didn't work itself out until now.

GossipGirl2002 wrote:

sneakpreview wrote:
I currently work in insurance, and there's a lot of opportunity in the claims/coverage arena. My background is in sports management, so I'd love to get into contract work (ADR, etc.). I'm also interested in environmental law. Later down the road a law degree would open more doors (teaching, consulting, etc.). Plus I've always wanted to go to law school, it's a perfect time in my professional/personal life to do it.

That's a lie and you know it.

OP, I'm afraid your prospects for being a lawyer aren't very good from either of these schools. I think that's what people are trying to say.

Usually I would be with Romo and say that neither are good options, however, I'm going to kindly make three assumptions then give you my answer

1. Since you aren't right out of undergrad you understand the state of the economy and what it means to take on debt, you have a better understanding of what you want out of a professional career, and you are overall more mature.

2. You have researched law school, the legal economy, and what it means to be a lawyer

3. You can not get into a top law school and want to be a lawyer anyways

People on TLS seem to take a t14 or bust approach (which is usually a good approach especially for people coming right out of undergrad). However, someone has been in the real world for a little while, has a more mature outlook, and knows more specifically what they want out of a professional career might be in a better position to take the gamble on a lower ranked school (especially if it's your only option to do what you want to do). With that being said, because you will have more trouble finding a higher paid position after graduating from these schools you should avoid debt at all costs. Go to Toledo, get your first job wherever you can find it, then once you gain enough experience, look to move/get a job on the west coast. This means you might have to live somewhere less appealing for a couple of years, but the lower debt would be worth it. I think there's not much reason not to go to Toledo. With that low of debt (that's what many people take out just for undergrad) even if your first position only pays $30000, you will be okay. Wait to gain experience in the field, then you will be more appealing to west coast employers. Don't go to Williamette, it's not worth the debt. Also, if you go to Toledo and end up losing your scholarship, drop out.

Cinefile, thanks for your input. You make very valid points.

Just curious, why do you say Willamette's not worth the debt? From my understanding, Willamette has a higher bar pass rate than U of O / L&C, and has employment numbers which are on the same level. A lot of people on here seem to disklike Willamette, but can't figure out why...

Retake my friend. It's one test, one more year. Kill it and never look back.

romothesavior wrote:OP, I'm afraid your prospects for being a lawyer aren't very good from either of these schools. I think that's what people are trying to say.

His prospects for being a lawyer are fantastic. An employed lawyer? Dismal.

^ Hyuckles.

sneakpreview wrote:Just curious, why do you say Willamette's not worth the debt?

Coppied from the Willamette LS website:

Type of Employment Median Salary
Private Practice $60,000
Government $58,000
Judicial Clerkships $42,000
Business $55,000
Public Interest $20,000-50,000


$20,000-$60,000 salary + $80,000 debt from Willamette = paying off your debt until you're 80

$20,000-$60,000 salary + $15,000 debt from Toledo = much more reasonable


Of course this...

megaTTTron wrote:Retake my friend. It's one test, one more year. Kill it and never look back.

...is the best option if it's at all possible.

megaTTTron wrote:Retake my friend. It's one test, one more year. Kill it and never look back.

+1.

OP, most people who make these threads are naive, unrealistic undergrad kids with liberal arts degrees and no idea what to do with their lives (OMG I JUST DESCRIBED MYSELF). You, on the other hand, seem like a sharp guy who has had a good career to this point and you seem like you know what you want with your law degree.

Spend one more year in your job. Re-take the LSAT. COMMIT YOURSELF TO IT AND KILL IT. If you can improve your score, you could be looking at much better options and a law degree would make you a very marketable asset. A degree from either of these schools would be a bad investment.

I appreciate all of the advice!

Retaking is not an option at this point. I spent all of last summer studying (including a class), and took about 40 practice tests under timed conditions. I scored identically both times. The reality is I have a good job, it's just not what I want to do. A law degree would fast track my current career or open up new doors entirely.

I'm not after a six figure salary or big law, so I don't see Willamette or Toledo as a bad investment. Both gave me scholarships, I liked both (prefer Willamette), and just need to decide. I want to work on the West Coast, love the Oregon region and facilities...just can't get over a free ride to Toledo.

sneakpreview wrote:I appreciate all of the advice!

Retaking is not an option at this point. I spent all of last summer studying (including a class), and took about 40 practice tests under timed conditions. I scored identically both times. The reality is I have a good job, it's just not what I want to do. A law degree would fast track my current career or open up new doors entirely.

I'm not after a six figure salary or big law, so I don't see Willamette or Toledo as a bad investment. Both gave me scholarships, I liked both (prefer Willamette), and just need to decide. I want to work on the West Coast, love the Oregon region and facilities...just can't get over a free ride to Toledo.

I obviously don't know your situation, but I'd be very wary of the underlined statement. There are kids graduating from Columbia who would disagree.

But if you are really set on these schools, did you tell Willamette about your Toledo offer? If you can get more money from Willamette, then I guess go there and drop out if you aren't in the top of your class after first semester.

Yeah, I did tell Willamette about the offer. They can't match it.

Again, Willamette is where I want to go, but I am really getting caught up on Toldeo's free ride.