Top Law Schools

... go with your instinct.
pls pick one for me.

Pepperdine looks like paradise

rockstar4488 wrote:Pepperdine looks like paradise

so.. i should go to pepp?

rockstar4488 wrote:Pepperdine looks like paradise

youikky wrote:... go with your instinct.
pls pick one for me.

I know this is not really relavent question for most of you guys. I thought the same whenever i encounter this poll thing.
but this is really important to me so is your decision important to you.
so pls help me with any insights/opinion/comments on this if you have any. The date is approaching and im not close enough at all to make a decision..

thx!!

Despite similar ranking, I know that Loyola has a better reputation in Los Angeles.

Loyola for no reason.

jetlagz28 wrote:Loyola for no reason.

i don't know why but your post makes me very relived... hmmmmmmmm

Loyola, not even a question

Unless your super religious and extremely boring, than Pepperdine

Loyola if you don't mind getting shot at, having an enormous class, and staring jealously at USC down the street for three years

Loyola. Not even a close call. Go to law firm web sites and see how many come from loyola, then see how many from pep. No comparison. Go to the aba site, compare. Ask around town. I personally would take sw over pep even. I want to practice in la, and pep was never a consideration.

In addition to having ken starr as dean (from the monica lewinsky scandal/pro prop 8 arguer), its just not a player in town. If your goal is to live in malibu and study at a very religious conserv school, then maybe, but really, loyola is jesuit anyway.

In any case, don't take my word, do the research. I see where the beauty of malibu may seem interesting, but this isn't really a close call: loyola all the way.

rgucsb wrote:Loyola, not even a question

Unless your super religious and extremely boring, than Pepperdine

is it just me? or ppl at tls just hate pepp because of this religious thing? how much should i rely on what ppl say about pepp and their religious solemness? because if it is only because of the image of the school (which is obviously religious and conservative) i wouldn't really count them as viable opinion... (not that i'm conservative or something..)

any unbiased third party opinion is welcome!

asside from the religious factor and ken starr affiliation... it really is about reputation. if you want to work in LA, Loyola has a better standing and will open more doors than pepperdine. i am sure both institutions offer great educations, but for most people it comes down to their employment after law school.

Ken Starr left Pepperdine to become the president of Baylor. Wake up, people.

LLS is a better school than Pepperdine, from what I've been told. Pepperdine might be a better choice if you want to go into (conservative) politics, and I understand they have a very strong arbitration/ADR program. Malibu is very nice, but also very expensive and commuting on PCH (or over Topanga etc.) is a bear. The people I know who went to Pepperdine (albeit decades ago) didn't love the school. These days I also understand that the place is getting a somewhat run down (seems odd considering their social affiliation, you think they'd do well fundraising) and the library, computers, etc aren't up to snuff. That's just unverified scuttlebutt, though.


The Jesuit presence at LLS is minimal. Their influence is mostly seen in the pro bono requirement. It's not like LMU, where the classroms come equipped with discreet little crucifixes.

Duralex wrote:Ken Starr left Pepperdine to become the president of Baylor. Wake up, people.

I do apologize for not keeping my Ken Starr detector amped at full. We all seem to agree though - no one is saying anything essentially positive about Pep, and actually Ken Starr was sort of their one claim to fame, and if he bailed, they don't even have that high level conserv connect now.

But the beach is pretty.

Fair enough, I noticed because I was relieved to see him go. I think they'll retain the conservative connect just by virtue of being one of their favored ideological boot camps, but certainly the blush will be off the rose (again.) We'll see what happens with their numbers (both rankings and raw stats.)

Objectively, the lawyers that I know who came out of Pepperdine seemed to have received a perfectly fine education and have been successful, eventually achieving partnership or starting their own firms. But I don't think they had as positive of a LS experience as the Loyola alumni I know.

youikky wrote:

rgucsb wrote:Loyola, not even a question

Unless your super religious and extremely boring, than Pepperdine

is it just me? or ppl at tls just hate pepp because of this religious thing? how much should i rely on what ppl say about pepp and their religious solemness? because if it is only because of the image of the school (which is obviously religious and conservative) i wouldn't really count them as viable opinion... (not that i'm conservative or something..)

any unbiased third party opinion is welcome!

My pre-law advisor freaked out when she realized I was considering applying to Pepperdine. Apparently employment prospects are hurt by the fact that people in the legal profession view Pepperdine as a place overrun by nut jobs. When it comes to getting jobs, image does count.

Duralex wrote:Fair enough, I noticed because I was relieved to see him go. I think they'll retain the conservative connect just by virtue of being one of their favored ideological boot camps, but certainly the blush will be off the rose (again.) We'll see what happens with their numbers (both rankings and raw stats.)

Objectively, the lawyers that I know who came out of Pepperdine seemed to have received a perfectly fine education and have been successful, eventually achieving partnership or starting their own firms. But I don't think they had as positive of a LS experience as the Loyola alumni I know.

hmmmm despite all these negatives someone keep voting for pepp and I'd like to hear their side of stories...

berkeleykel06 wrote:

youikky wrote:

rgucsb wrote:Loyola, not even a question

Unless your super religious and extremely boring, than Pepperdine

is it just me? or ppl at tls just hate pepp because of this religious thing? how much should i rely on what ppl say about pepp and their religious solemness? because if it is only because of the image of the school (which is obviously religious and conservative) i wouldn't really count them as viable opinion... (not that i'm conservative or something..)

any unbiased third party opinion is welcome!

My pre-law advisor freaked out when she realized I was considering applying to Pepperdine. Apparently employment prospects are hurt by the fact that people in the legal profession view Pepperdine as a place overrun by nut jobs. When it comes to getting jobs, image does count.

thx this is actually something i couldnt think of.. well, if this is the case I see why so many ppl are making such a big deal out of the school's conservative image.. but still, is it really all negative..? ignore me if im being too naive..

1) Latest Peer Rankings Pepperdine 2.5 Loyola 2.6
2) Latest Lawyer/Judges Rankings Pepperdine 3.1 Loyola 2.8
3) As to the "uber-conservative/religious" factor. People who think this, don't know what they are talking about, and if in doubt, you should visit to see for yourself; something you should do for both schools anyway especially if you are planning on paying sticker.
4) Problem with TLS in general; largely peopled by 0Ls, people who don't really have any first hand knowledge of Pepperdine, people who respond to legitimate questions by regurgitating crap they think they heard someone say at some point, or just generally like the sound of their own voice so much that they believe their own bs.

Pepperdine outright rejected me, although my numbers owned their own, simply because I didn't complete the religious portion of the application correctly. Nine applications= eight acceptances and Pepperdine wasn't even close to the highest school I applied to.

The moral of the story is fuck Pepperdine.

1ferret! wrote:1) Latest Peer Rankings Pepperdine 2.5 Loyola 2.6
2) Latest Lawyer/Judges Rankings Pepperdine 3.1 Loyola 2.8
3) As to the "uber-conservative/religious" factor. People who think this, don't know what they are talking about, and if in doubt, you should visit to see for yourself; something you should do for both schools anyway especially if you are planning on paying sticker.
4) Problem with TLS in general; largely peopled by 0Ls, people who don't really have any first hand knowledge of Pepperdine, people who respond to legitimate questions by regurgitating crap they think they heard someone say at some point, or just generally like the sound of their own voice so much that they believe their own bs.

Speaking for myself, what I posted comes directly from discussions with (1) law profs (2) practicing attorneys graduated from Pepperdine (3) hiring partners at multiple firms (4) ret. judge/arbitrator.

Except for the bit about the computers and library being run down, I think that was heard secondhand from someone with a (significant other? family member? can't recall) at Pepperdine.

It's true that the people I know who graduated from Pepperdine (in the early 90s, I think) are not radically conservative, and while they didn't find the social atmosphere at Pepperdine to be intolerable, a few did characterize it as obnoxious and irritating (especially when dealing with politically dogmatic profs, of which there was a surfeit then and probably still is now.) I can't speak to how its political associations are currently treated in the job market (unless you're applying for a political/policy job or looking to work in a political area of the law, in which case it will be assumed that you are indeed quite conservative.)

Take it or leave it as you like.

Fark-o-vision wrote:Pepperdine outright rejected me, although my numbers owned their own, simply because I didn't complete the religious portion of the application correctly. Nine applications= eight acceptances and Pepperdine wasn't even close to the highest school I applied to.

The moral of the story is fuck Pepperdine.

You are a F***ing idiot. If you don't deign to fill out part of the application your not getting in. I feel sorry for the students at the school you end up at.

berkeleykel06 wrote:

youikky wrote:

rgucsb wrote:Loyola, not even a question

Unless your super religious and extremely boring, than Pepperdine

is it just me? or ppl at tls just hate pepp because of this religious thing? how much should i rely on what ppl say about pepp and their religious solemness? because if it is only because of the image of the school (which is obviously religious and conservative) i wouldn't really count them as viable opinion... (not that i'm conservative or something..)

any unbiased third party opinion is welcome!

My pre-law advisor freaked out when she realized I was considering applying to Pepperdine. Apparently employment prospects are hurt by the fact that people in the legal profession view Pepperdine as a place overrun by nut jobs. When it comes to getting jobs, image does count.

Holy S%&# ! A person at Bezerkely was freaked out annoyed by Pepperdine's conservative reputation??...Let me try to recover from my pure shock.

ruleser wrote:Loyola. Not even a close call. Go to law firm web sites and see how many come from loyola, then see how many from pep. No comparison. Go to the aba site, compare. Ask around town. I personally would take sw over pep even. I want to practice in la, and pep was never a consideration.

In addition to having ken starr as dean (from the monica lewinsky scandal/pro prop 8 arguer), its just not a player in town. If your goal is to live in malibu and study at a very religious conserv school, then maybe, but really, loyola is jesuit anyway.

In any case, don't take my word, do the research. I see where the beauty of malibu may seem interesting, but this isn't really a close call: loyola all the way.

Good point. Do keep in mind however, that Loyola graduates a couple hundred more graduates/lawyers every year. The schools have opposed views on alumni networks. Loyola floods the market and hopes to use sheer numbers to get jobs and build connections; legit strategy. Pepperdine has much smaller enrollment numbers, and is decreasing to 200 per class- i.e. go for small close knit network that helps each other out; also legit strategy.

Also keep in mind that historically Loyola had a much better rep and was placing more ppl in big law (also back when there was a good economy) but in recent years, i.e. last 3ish the enrollments stats of incoming pepperdine students have gotten better than Loyola's and higher every year.

I would suggest going to a Pepperdine 1L thread to hear about how religious the school is or isn't. Short answer: more conservative then most; less than what TLS users like to flame/believe.

Keep in mind going to either of these schools at sticker is a risk and Biglaw at either will probably require top 10%, maybe top 15% if your lucky.

arhmcpo wrote:

Fark-o-vision wrote:Pepperdine outright rejected me, although my numbers owned their own, simply because I didn't complete the religious portion of the application correctly. Nine applications= eight acceptances and Pepperdine wasn't even close to the highest school I applied to.

The moral of the story is fuck Pepperdine.

You are a F***ing idiot. If you don't deign to fill out part of the application your not getting in. I feel sorry for the students at the school you end up at.

berkeleykel06 wrote:

youikky wrote:

rgucsb wrote:Loyola, not even a question

Unless your super religious and extremely boring, than Pepperdine

is it just me? or ppl at tls just hate pepp because of this religious thing? how much should i rely on what ppl say about pepp and their religious solemness? because if it is only because of the image of the school (which is obviously religious and conservative) i wouldn't really count them as viable opinion... (not that i'm conservative or something..)

any unbiased third party opinion is welcome!

My pre-law advisor freaked out when she realized I was considering applying to Pepperdine. Apparently employment prospects are hurt by the fact that people in the legal profession view Pepperdine as a place overrun by nut jobs. When it comes to getting jobs, image does count.

Holy S%&# ! A person at Bezerkely was freaked out annoyed by Pepperdine's conservative reputation??...Let me try to recover from my pure shock.

ruleser wrote:Loyola. Not even a close call. Go to law firm web sites and see how many come from loyola, then see how many from pep. No comparison. Go to the aba site, compare. Ask around town. I personally would take sw over pep even. I want to practice in la, and pep was never a consideration.

In addition to having ken starr as dean (from the monica lewinsky scandal/pro prop 8 arguer), its just not a player in town. If your goal is to live in malibu and study at a very religious conserv school, then maybe, but really, loyola is jesuit anyway.

In any case, don't take my word, do the research. I see where the beauty of malibu may seem interesting, but this isn't really a close call: loyola all the way.

Good point. Do keep in mind however, that Loyola graduates a couple hundred more graduates/lawyers every year. The schools have opposed views on alumni networks. Loyola floods the market and hopes to use sheer numbers to get jobs and build connections; legit strategy. Pepperdine has much smaller enrollment numbers, and is decreasing to 200 per class- i.e. go for small close knit network that helps each other out; also legit strategy.

Also keep in mind that historically Loyola had a much better rep and was placing more ppl in big law (also back when there was a good economy) but in recent years, i.e. last 3ish the enrollments stats of incoming pepperdine students have gotten better than Loyola's and higher every year.

I would suggest going to a Pepperdine 1L thread to hear about how religious the school is or isn't. Short answer: more conservative then most; less than what TLS users like to flame/believe.

Keep in mind going to either of these schools at sticker is a risk and Biglaw at either will probably require top 10%, maybe top 15% if your lucky.

thx for the input. do u mind if i ask you which school are u attending for the fall? i noticed from your profile your choice could be hard...... and wonder where you decided to attend!

I had to step in as a recently graduated Pepperdine-er (undergrad). Lots of BS in here and frankly not surprising. Because Pepperdine doesn't have an invisible religious affiliation and because they have a right of center faculty, all of a sudden it gets labeled as a church churning out Dick Cheney's. From a legal standpoint, the school has much more to lose with Ken Starr leaving than to gain as who ever they get will definitely not be as notable or relevant in the future. As far as rankings go, look at the numbers. Loyola churns out more and thus have more of a chance of getting more to stick on the wall. Pepperdine, for better or worse, doesn't attempt to change the perception out there by flooding the market with lawyers and having everyone buy into the fact that it's not only for ideologues. Now that being said, Pepperdine in many circles (often the ones that like having a right wing villain out there) has the reputation of being a neo-conservative school...but it isn't. I mean lets be real here, for every person who you can find to tell me it churns out religious fundamentalists I can find you 10 more to tell you its a great school. It's cool on TLS to have a bogeyman to try and pretend the school is shit but...its a better school than Loyola. Plain and simple.
I can also attest to the fact that people there aren't boring and that it's a pretty sweet place to go. It is expensive (its not located adjacent to an airport like its counterpart), and its not right in the thick of LA, but Santa Monica is quite accessible as is Hollywood and a lot of other places that should keep a law school student busy enough. Once you go visit the school, I guarantee you that thoughts of boredom or uneasiness about the enjoyment level of living in the Malibu area will be the last thing in your mind.
I'm leaving the West Coast and headed to Wake Forest but if I had the option to choose between Pepp and Loyola, it'd be Pepperdine in a heartbeat. Loyola is a safety school in comparison.

From the above, it sounds like you're confused.

It's LMU that's near the airport, and that campus is in fact rather nice (granted, it's still not Malibu:)



LLS is downtown, near Staples. It has whimsical postmodern buildings on a locked-down campus. No one is arguing for LLS on the grounds of campus aesthetics.

Comparison of the two undergrad schools is a total non-sequiter. No, LMU undergrad is not a great school.

Considering that Pep law school is ranked 52 and LLS is 56, the notion that LLS is a "safety school in comparison" seems comical. Possibly true of undergraduate admissions, I never looked at Pepperdine for that, but not LS.

Who said Malibu was boring? It's just expensive. And a real pain in the ass to get to/from when there's traffic.

Even worse when anything goes wrong, such as in '05, by Pep's own account:

http://graphic.pepperdine.edu/news/2005 ... 31-pch.htm

This year’s weather has been off to a rocky start, literally, for most of the Malibu area. Although the rain has stopped, Caltrans and Los Angeles County Public Works crews continue to the battle rock and mudslides throughout the area.

At Topanga Canyon and Pacific Coast Highway, Caltrans crews had temporarily shut down one lane of the highway while grating the hillside above to prevent slides in the future.

The road has since reopened but is still causing a significant slow down for motorists on Pacific Coast Highway, leaving many frustrated at the hour-long commute from Malibu to Santa Monica.

“It used to take me only 15 or 20 minutes to get from Santa Monica to Pepperdine, now it takes at least an hour or hour and a half to get here,” said Pepperdine staff member Jaime Gladin. “I’m almost ready to go all the way around, but with that construction and accidents, it would take just as long.”

(Note that "all the way around" means taking the freeways through the valley to Calabasas and then coming over the canyons. Also note that Pepperdine's newspaper can't distinguish between "grading" and "grating." Apply more Parmesan to the hillside! Yes, this is an undergrad paper, I know. )

Still, it's good to hear that most of the students are happy there (if that's what you're saying.) I think it'd be difficult, however, to find ten happy law students for every naysayer, since the naysayer population seems to exceed Pepperdine's class size.