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Without thinking about $$...

Penn v. Berkeley...which one would you choose?

Penn-East Coast and Ivy bias

Penn for the East Coast, Berkeley for the West Coast, probably tied for the Midwest. So I'd take Penn for the Ivy and lay prestige.

I'd wager you'd have more fun at Boalt.

Penn for the East, Berkeley for the West: I agree. I'd take Berkeley because I love the West Coast, but the decision is very personal.

We need more information!

Berkeley.

In a lot of ways, it depends on where you want to end up long-term. As people have said, if you want west coast, Berkeley is a no brainer. Berkeley also seems to have a slight edge in faculty, and the grading scale is an honors/pass/no pass so that may or may not jibe well with your personality. Personally, I would prefer Berkeley based off feedback I've received from friends who are attending one of these schools. Apparently the student body is friendlier, and many people who go to Berkeley had it as one of their top choices, while I've heard Penn is full of a lot of people who are bitter about not getting CCN. I understand I'm making sweeping generalizations here, so let me qualify once again that this is based off a very small sample (2 Penn students and 3 Berkeley students). HTH

Although imo it would be fantastic to live in the Bay area, I would choose Penn based on lay prestige and a slightly better national reach.

SimplyC26 wrote:Although imo it would be fantastic to live in the Bay area, I would choose Penn based on lay prestige and a slightly better national reach.

What difference does national reach make if you want to live in the Bay Area? Berkeley has plenty of lay prestige there, too.

I really find these arguments in support of prestige misplaced. What if said person(s) already holds a HYP degree? What additional benefit does s/he get from "lay prestige" by attending another ivy school?

Go where you think you will be successful. And success never comes simply from the school you attend school--it comes from what you do with what you have.

I am a HYP graduate and applied only to Berkeley and Stanford, with Berkeley my top choice. I have no interest in additional "prestige" because I don't think it has any marginal impact on my prospects for career success.

That being said, Berkeley is the clear winner both in terms of academic quality, and quality of life.

jmoney wrote:I really find these arguments in support of prestige misplaced. What if said person(s) already holds a HYP degree? What additional benefit does s/he get from "lay prestige" by attending another ivy school?

Pretty close to irrelevant since UG prestige matters little for lawyers, and certainly much much less than your law school's prestige. I'd personally pick Penn, but it's definitely a personal choice and there's no clear winner here.

im_blue wrote:Penn for the East Coast, Berkeley for the West Coast, probably tied for the Midwest. So I'd take Penn for the Ivy and lay prestige.

I think Berkeley has more lay prestige. Most people don't know the difference between Penn and Penn State....

reverendt wrote:

im_blue wrote:Penn for the East Coast, Berkeley for the West Coast, probably tied for the Midwest. So I'd take Penn for the Ivy and lay prestige.

I think Berkeley has more lay prestige. Most people don't know the difference between Penn and Penn State....

I respectfully disagree. Your point is certainly valid west of Denver. However, Penn is the more recognized institution on the East Coast. I would venture to say most lay people associate Berkeley with extreme liberalism and the area being at the forefront of the civil rights movement in the 60's. Whereas Penn has a great deal of notoriety because of Wharton.

SimplyC26 wrote: I would venture to say most lay people associate Berkeley with extreme liberalism and the area being at the forefront of the civil rights movement in the 60's. Whereas Penn has a great deal of notoriety because of Wharton.

The Berkeley associations are a lot cooler, in my opinion.

This post is credited; the choice basically comes down to where you want to work / live.

reverendt wrote:

im_blue wrote:Penn for the East Coast, Berkeley for the West Coast, probably tied for the Midwest. So I'd take Penn for the Ivy and lay prestige.

I think Berkeley has more lay prestige. Most people don't know the difference between Penn and Penn State....

This difference tends to benefit Penn State more than it harms Penn, in my experience.

CardinalRules wrote:

SimplyC26 wrote: I would venture to say most lay people associate Berkeley with extreme liberalism and the area being at the forefront of the civil rights movement in the 60's. Whereas Penn has a great deal of notoriety because of Wharton.

The Berkeley associations are a lot cooler, in my opinion.

This post is credited; the choice basically comes down to where you want to work / live.

Agreed. The OP and those who are facing a similar choice are in a win-win situation. For me personally, it would come down to which of the two schools offered the most money.

OP needs to visit the schools, talk to current students, decide whether one school has faculty or clinics that better suit his goals. There's no way a thread on TLS could make up his mind for him.

reverendt wrote:

im_blue wrote:Penn for the East Coast, Berkeley for the West Coast, probably tied for the Midwest. So I'd take Penn for the Ivy and lay prestige.

I think Berkeley has more lay prestige. Most people don't know the difference between Penn and Penn State....

I've noticed that East Coasters tend to overstate the lay prestige of schools like Penn. Berkeley has more lay prestige in Europe, Asia, and the western half of the United States.

Even on the East Coast, I'm not sure that Penn enjoys much of an advantage. My cousin's husband is partner at a V15 firm. He's an East Coaster (Yale for undergrad, Harvard for law school). When I talked to him last month, I told him the story, relayed on TLS, about a poster's father "who spit up his food laughing" when he learned that Berkeley was ranked ahead of Penn in the USNWR rankings. I asked my cousin's husband if Penn is more highly regarded than Berkeley in East Coast law firms. His response: "I'm sure Penn graduates tell themselves that, but I don't think so. Penn isn't Harvard. Berkeley is a well-regarded school. A Berkeley graduate might even have an advantage out here because there are fewer of them applying."

In any event, I think the OP should choose the school that he or she would most enjoy being at. Penn and Berkeley are peer schools.

Berkeley. Though I think Penn is probably better in the areas where it counts (but not by a ton).

Definitely Berkeley. Why go to the fifth-best law school on the East Coast when you could go to the second-best law school on the Best Coast?

johnstuartmill wrote:Definitely Berkeley. Why go to the fifth-best law school on the East Coast when you could go to the second-best law school on the Best Coast?

Blatant anti-UVA troll!

im_blue wrote:

johnstuartmill wrote:Definitely Berkeley. Why go to the fifth-best law school on the East Coast when you could go to the second-best law school on the Best Coast?

Blatant anti-UVA troll!

Aren't we discussing Penn?

CardinalRules wrote:

im_blue wrote:

johnstuartmill wrote:Definitely Berkeley. Why go to the fifth-best law school on the East Coast when you could go to the second-best law school on the Best Coast?

Blatant anti-UVA troll!

Aren't we discussing Penn?

Yeah, but if UVA>Penn, then Penn is the sixth-best law school on the East Coast. That's the joke, I think.

Dignan wrote:

CardinalRules wrote:

im_blue wrote:

johnstuartmill wrote:Definitely Berkeley. Why go to the fifth-best law school on the East Coast when you could go to the second-best law school on the Best Coast?

Blatant anti-UVA troll!

Aren't we discussing Penn?

Yeah, but if UVA>Penn, then Penn is the sixth-best law school on the East Coast. That's the joke, I think.

Correct - Yale, Harvard, Columbia, NYU, UVA, Penn