Top Law Schools

Many of you also looking at schools in San Diego know that I've been talking about this for a while.

I'd like to go to USD, but I'm not sure it's worth the hefty price tag.

Here are my other options... and no, T-14 is not an option.

Cal Western w/ 81 k in $$
UNLV, which is cheaper in general and I haven't hears about any $$
McGeorge with 1/2 tuition

I've also been accepted at...
UMiami
USF
Santa Clara
... but I think they are too expensive for what I'd be getting

I'm in almost the same boat as you...leaning towards USD for 150K. After weighing the pros and the cons, USD came out as a front runner (beautiful campus and city, strongest school in reagion, my desire to stay either in San Diego or Orange County, etc.)

What do you want to do with your JD? I know for sure I want to be a public defender, so I will be depending on IBR and public service forgiveness. With that in mind, going to USD will not be a bad deciosion, because I will not have to pay off the whole loan...which does seem daunting.

Many on TLS will say no. However, if you are happy to stay in So. Cal and not make Biglaw bucks right off the bat, then you can probably do just fine. With lots of hard work, a few years after graduation you can be doing a lot better than just fine...

Depends how hard you plan to work. You will need to plan on graduating near the top of your class. And you will need to commit not to coast into a high lawyer salary. You'll have to bust you bum for it. Anything is possible.

Check a lot of the anti-TTT and anti-TTTT threads that have popped up lately. The general consensus is that on average it may not be worth it, but there are plenty of incredible success stories. You just have to decide if you are willing to differentiate yourself enough so that you can be one of those outliers.

nope. I'd only pay that for HYS. Don't feel bad though, this is why I am going T2.

Muckduck wrote:Many on TLS will say no. However, if you are happy to stay in So. Cal and not make Biglaw bucks right off the bat, then you can probably do just fine. With lots of hard work, a few years after graduation you can be doing a lot better than just fine...

Depends how hard you plan to work. You will need to plan on graduating near the top of your class. And you will need to commit not to coast into a high lawyer salary. You'll have to bust you bum for it. Anything is possible.

Check a lot of the anti-TTT and anti-TTTT threads that have popped up lately. The general consensus is that on average it may not be worth it, but there are plenty of incredible success stories. You just have to decide if you are willing to differentiate yourself enough so that you can be one of those outliers.

Unfortunately, people make this mistake too often. “Possibilities” could be deceiving and disastrous. You should plan your life around “probabilities” and not “possibilities”. Is it “possible” that you win the lottery this weekend? Absolutely! Is it probable? I wouldn’t bet the farm on it.

Hell no.

Thanks for your responses!

I'd really like to stay in San Diego and I'm worried that if I go to Cal Western, I won't be able to get a job. period. Especially if I have a bad class, or two. If I don't have a job I can't pay off ANY loans, it doesn't matter how much they are. It's also not as though Cal Western would be free for me, I'd still be looking at 50 k in debt. Which is a lot less than 150k.

I've looked at a lot of the well known firms in town to look at where they hire grads from. It's usually 50 percent, or more, USD; a couple from Cal Western, and a couple from somewhere else.

The other thought I've had is that UNLV might be a nice in between. I'll definitely get out with less than 100 k in loans and it's ranked a hell-of-a-lot better than Cal Western. Plus, if I can't make the jump back to SD, I'll hang out in Vegas for a few.

I know there's a big difference between probable and possible. I wish there were some kind of stats for employment from '09 (as unreliable as they might be).

I realize that a lot of people looking at USC or UCLA wouldn't even consider USD without some major dough.

matrix637 wrote:

Muckduck wrote:Many on TLS will say no. However, if you are happy to stay in So. Cal and not make Biglaw bucks right off the bat, then you can probably do just fine. With lots of hard work, a few years after graduation you can be doing a lot better than just fine...

Depends how hard you plan to work. You will need to plan on graduating near the top of your class. And you will need to commit not to coast into a high lawyer salary. You'll have to bust you bum for it. Anything is possible.

Check a lot of the anti-TTT and anti-TTTT threads that have popped up lately. The general consensus is that on average it may not be worth it, but there are plenty of incredible success stories. You just have to decide if you are willing to differentiate yourself enough so that you can be one of those outliers.

Unfortunately, people make this mistake too often. “Possibilities” could be deceiving and disastrous. You should plan your life around “probabilities” and not “possibilities”. Is it “possible” that you win the lottery this weekend? Absolutely! Is it probable? I wouldn’t bet the farm on it.

Hmm, I understand where you are coming from, especially with law school admissions. I am someone who is T14 bound however, and I still completely disagree with the sentence "You should plan your life around 'probabilities', not 'possibilities'..." That would lead to a very dull, unimaginative life that I would think would be full of regrets. Most things worth accomplishing will have the odds against you no matter what you have done in the past or how you scored on a three hour test. Sure, TTT schools can offer some pretty bad job prospects, but don't heed that advice. Just know what you are getting into.

Edited because my first draft was not clear.

matrix637 wrote:

Muckduck wrote:Many on TLS will say no. However, if you are happy to stay in So. Cal and not make Biglaw bucks right off the bat, then you can probably do just fine. With lots of hard work, a few years after graduation you can be doing a lot better than just fine...

Depends how hard you plan to work. You will need to plan on graduating near the top of your class. And you will need to commit not to coast into a high lawyer salary. You'll have to bust you bum for it. Anything is possible.

Check a lot of the anti-TTT and anti-TTTT threads that have popped up lately. The general consensus is that on average it may not be worth it, but there are plenty of incredible success stories. You just have to decide if you are willing to differentiate yourself enough so that you can be one of those outliers.

Unfortunately, people make this mistake too often. “Possibilities” could be deceiving and disastrous. You should plan your life around “probabilities” and not “possibilities”. Is it “possible” that you win the lottery this weekend? Absolutely! Is it probable? I wouldn’t bet the farm on it.

Which is exactly why if you choose USD you must not be the average student. Differentiating yourself changes the "probabilities" you are referring to... Don't use statistics to prove what must invariably happen to a student at USD. They suggest what will happen to those who follow the general trend. They say nothing about someone who succeeds in making themselves different.

BruinsFan wrote:Many of you also looking at schools in San Diego know that I've been talking about this for a while.

I'd like to go to USD, but I'm not sure it's worth the hefty price tag.

Here are my other options... and no, T-14 is not an option.

Cal Western w/ 81 k in $$
UNLV, which is cheaper in general and I haven't hears about any $$
McGeorge with 1/2 tuition

I've also been accepted at...
UMiami
USF
Santa Clara
... but I think they are too expensive for what I'd be getting

Oh, for the University of San Diego? No. I thought you meant the University of South Dakota. In that case I would have said yest.

Based on your options, i think you should do it.

i think you should do it. as long as you know what you are getting into. if you like the school after having visited, if you like the vibe and think you would be happy there, if you want to make a life for yourself in SD and you understand the burden that much debt with have on your life throughout your thirties, go for it.

If it's your dream school I say go for it. If it's it not your dream school, and you only like it because it's the highest-ranked school that accepted you and you like CA, then no, don't pay sticker...

Wow 150K in debt with that school? Sorry but USD, UMiami and Santa Clara at sticker are over priced. I'd say go with UNLV, although that school is having some financial issues of its own right now.

I would say McGeorge but if you just can't go there then I guess of the options go to USD and enjoy the house payments you'll be making for a while.

I can't find it now but I read on these forums about a student from Illinois writing to the office of financial aid at USD and getting her 60% scholarship bumped up to a full scholarship. She basically told them that they were her first choice, but quite expensive -especially compared to staying in her home state. She told them how much the other school had offered her (which was actually about the same), but repeated how much she wanted to go to USD. You might be able to leverage your scholarship at another school into some (though probably not huge) scholarship from USD. Every little bit helps.

if you love the school, love the town, want to work there, then heck yes

I would take Santa Clara over USD. If you are interested in living and working in FL, then I would consider Miami; otherwise, the other schools listed are not even worth the cost / time of attending law school.

chadwick218 wrote:I would take Santa Clara over USD. If you are interested in living and working in FL, then I would consider Miami; otherwise, the other schools listed are not even worth the cost / time of attending law school.

out of curiosity, why clara over usd?

Good heavens never. What a poor life decision that would be.

Disclaimer: I did not read the OP nor do I care.

OP needs to clarify. I assume he means 150k DEBT, and if that is the case, then no, USD is not worth it. No nonT20 is worth 100k+ debt in my opinion. If you could self finance at least 1/3 of the cost then my opinion might be different.

swheat wrote: No nonT20 is worth 100k+ debt in my opinion.

TITMFCR.

swheat wrote:OP needs to clarify. I assume he means 150k DEBT, and if that is the case, then no, USD is not worth it. No nonT20 is worth 100k+ debt in my opinion. If you could self finance at least 1/3 of the cost then my opinion might be different.

I haven't received any official financial aid package, but it's probably going to end up being something like 150 k in debt.

I can live at home, so living expenses would be minimal. I'll be part time 1L and hoping to work second semester and into the summer. As an undergrad I struck a balance between internships and waiting tables. I've thought about work/study, but don't know if they would offer me that.

I also could go part time the whole way through, since my living expenses are so low. 28,700 x 4 = 114,000 or so for tuition alone + interest. If I did some free internships during the summer and worked part time. I might be able to keep it close to that.

Oh and he's a she.

BruinsFan wrote:

swheat wrote:OP needs to clarify. I assume he means 150k DEBT, and if that is the case, then no, USD is not worth it. No nonT20 is worth 100k+ debt in my opinion. If you could self finance at least 1/3 of the cost then my opinion might be different.

I haven't received any official financial aid package, but it's probably going to end up being something like 150 k in debt.

I can live at home, so living expenses would be minimal. I'll be part time 1L and hoping to work second semester and into the summer. As an undergrad I struck a balance between internships and waiting tables. I've thought about work/study, but don't know if they would offer me that.

I also could go part time the whole way through, since my living expenses are so low. 28,700 x 4 = 114,000 or so for tuition alone + interest. If I did some free internships during the summer and worked part time. I might be able to keep it close to that.

Oh and he's a she.

You assume the tuition won't increase over 4 years? My tuition is going up by 7k next year.

I think you might be able to make this work, but only if you work full time and earn enough to keep your debt under 100k. Even 100k in debt is going to cost you over $1000 per month. Can you manage that on a 50k salary? There's a chance you will make more than that but you should plan for the worst case scenario. Will you have a 2nd income by the time you graduate?

swheat wrote:

BruinsFan wrote:

swheat wrote:OP needs to clarify. I assume he means 150k DEBT, and if that is the case, then no, USD is not worth it. No nonT20 is worth 100k+ debt in my opinion. If you could self finance at least 1/3 of the cost then my opinion might be different.

I haven't received any official financial aid package, but it's probably going to end up being something like 150 k in debt.

I can live at home, so living expenses would be minimal. I'll be part time 1L and hoping to work second semester and into the summer. As an undergrad I struck a balance between internships and waiting tables. I've thought about work/study, but don't know if they would offer me that.

I also could go part time the whole way through, since my living expenses are so low. 28,700 x 4 = 114,000 or so for tuition alone + interest. If I did some free internships during the summer and worked part time. I might be able to keep it close to that.

Oh and he's a she.

You assume the tuition won't increase over 4 years? My tuition is going up by 7k next year.

I think you might be able to make this work, but only if you work full time and earn enough to keep your debt under 100k. Even 100k in debt is going to cost you over $1000 per month. Can you manage that on a 50k salary? There's a chance you will make more than that but you should plan for the worst case scenario. Will you have a 2nd income by the time you graduate?

I know tuition changes, and by changes I mean goes up, that's why is said 114,000 or so.

I'm not opposed to working full time while attending as long as it's related to law and could help be get a lawyer job when I get out. I have a full time job now, but it's totally unrelated. At the same time, grades are super important and I definitely want to make sure I do my best in the class room.

Second income upon graduation is doubtful. Although, would be helpful!

When I set out on this law school journey USD was by far my number 1 choice, but all this debt makes me worry. I don't have any now! In my mind, with very little knowledge mind you, I wanted this to cost me less than 100 k.

Sigh.

BruinsFan wrote: I know tuition changes, and by changes I mean goes up, that's why is said 114,000 or so.

I'm not opposed to working full time while attending as long as it's related to law and could help be get a lawyer job when I get out. I have a full time job now, but it's totally unrelated. At the same time, grades are super important and I definitely want to make sure I do my best in the class room.

Second income upon graduation is doubtful. Although, would be helpful!

When I set out on this law school journey USD was by far my number 1 choice, but all this debt makes me worry. I don't have any now! In my mind, with very little knowledge mind you, I wanted this to cost me less than 100 k.

Sigh.

It's a real problem. Here's the thing...USD and Loyola are extremely generous with scholarship money, so long as they think they need to pay you off to keep you from choosing Hastings or Davis. If you can improve your LSAT to Hastings/Davis level (162-166), I would bet that both USD and Loyola would make you a very nice offer. If you are young enough and willing to spend more time on the LSAT, I think this is a better course of action.

Second, you should probably rethink the legal field. It isn't pretty at all right now, and it may only get worse from here on out. Our conlaw prof at Hastings told us today not to count on finding a job in the Bay Area. I assume the situation is similar in SoCal. There's nothing shameful about walking away and reconsidering your career goals. If you really want to be a lawyer, then stick with it. If you just want a good paying job that will allow for a comfortable lifestyle, you may want to reconsider. I have a few ideas about alternative career paths, so feel free to PM me if you are interested (and no, I will not tell you to go be a "nurse" or a "plumber" like many of the idiots on this board).