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Re: Military Law
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2022 5:58 pm
by Patrick Bateman
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Apr 23, 2022 1:23 pm
Hi all. Was wondering if anybody might be able to offer some advice. I am currently a 2L at a T30 school. My GPA is around median, and I am on LR and moot court. I have done a JAG internship, and will be at a V5 firm this summer. After graduation, I will be doing a federal clerkship and hope to return to my firm. However, it has always been my dream to be a JAG Officer, and I want to join the JAG Reserves. I suppose my question is how competitive my application would be, and whether it would be smarter for me to apply for a slot this fall and try to commission immediately after my clerkship, or to work a 1-2 years after my clerkship and apply for a commission then? My main concern is whether my JAG duties would make it difficult for me to learn the ropes at my firm. I also would probably prefer Army/Air Force over the other branches.
Toss up in my mind. My general answer is that you are going to need some level of work experience to set yourself apart for a direct commission into the Reserve (at least the USAF) - if you think about it from the Pentagon's perspective, what can you bring to the table compared to someone coming off of active duty that already has 4/6/8/etc years of directly relevant JAG experience? You have good credentials, which will help some.
That said, V5 associate experience is not is exactly as 1:1 marketable to be a JAG in the same way as being an AUSA might be. We just have a very different client with different requirements. So YMMV in terms of what a few years of work experience will bring to that table in terms of looking more competitive. Your practice area may also change the optics on this quite a bit (litigation v. transactional, etc).
That all said, I am also an advocate of the Michael Scott/Wayne Gretzky philosophy is missing 100% of the shots you don't take.
Your concerns about even minimum reserve time having an impact on your law firm progression while a junior associate is warranted. 3-4 weeks away to get your 51 points each year when you are at a V5 is not insignificant. It really is a matter of balancing priorities - reserve service is pretty much zero sum, advancing at your civilian job will generally come at the expense of the Reserve and vice versa. You'll have to pick which Caesar upon which you will render your time at that particular chapter in your professional and personal life.
So, long way of saying, who knows the right answer. Probably getting 24-36 months of experience under your belt at the firm will make you a stronger applicant because you can at least point to XYZ in terms of an acquired skill set. But if you think the timing makes sense to put in your hat earlier than that, go for it - the worst they can say is no and you can then evaluate if it makes sense to immediately reapply or further develop your resume.
Re: Military Law
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2022 6:47 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Apr 23, 2022 1:23 pm
Hi all. Was wondering if anybody might be able to offer some advice. I am currently a 2L at a T30 school. My GPA is around median, and I am on LR and moot court. I have done a JAG internship, and will be at a V5 firm this summer. After graduation, I will be doing a federal clerkship and hope to return to my firm. However, it has always been my dream to be a JAG Officer, and I want to join the JAG Reserves. I suppose my question is how competitive my application would be, and whether it would be smarter for me to apply for a slot this fall and try to commission immediately after my clerkship, or to work a 1-2 years after my clerkship and apply for a commission then? My main concern is whether my JAG duties would make it difficult for me to learn the ropes at my firm. I also would probably prefer Army/Air Force over the other branches.
Apply for the Army if you have trouble with the Air Force, I applied 4 times to the AF and was selected for the Army first time applying. The AF’s selection process seems arbitrary and they do not make it clear why they select candidates. Their “whole person” concept is cover for, “we don’t want to disclose our methodology.”
Re: Military Law
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:14 am
by Anonymous User
Patrick Bateman wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 5:58 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Apr 23, 2022 1:23 pm
Hi all. Was wondering if anybody might be able to offer some advice. I am currently a 2L at a T30 school. My GPA is around median, and I am on LR and moot court. I have done a JAG internship, and will be at a V5 firm this summer. After graduation, I will be doing a federal clerkship and hope to return to my firm. However, it has always been my dream to be a JAG Officer, and I want to join the JAG Reserves. I suppose my question is how competitive my application would be, and whether it would be smarter for me to apply for a slot this fall and try to commission immediately after my clerkship, or to work a 1-2 years after my clerkship and apply for a commission then? My main concern is whether my JAG duties would make it difficult for me to learn the ropes at my firm. I also would probably prefer Army/Air Force over the other branches.
Toss up in my mind. My general answer is that you are going to need some level of work experience to set yourself apart for a direct commission into the Reserve (at least the USAF) - if you think about it from the Pentagon's perspective, what can you bring to the table compared to someone coming off of active duty that already has 4/6/8/etc years of directly relevant JAG experience? You have good credentials, which will help some.
That said, V5 associate experience is not is exactly as 1:1 marketable to be a JAG in the same way as being an AUSA might be. We just have a very different client with different requirements. So YMMV in terms of what a few years of work experience will bring to that table in terms of looking more competitive. Your practice area may also change the optics on this quite a bit (litigation v. transactional, etc).
That all said, I am also an advocate of the Michael Scott/Wayne Gretzky philosophy is missing 100% of the shots you don't take.
Your concerns about even minimum reserve time having an impact on your law firm progression while a junior associate is warranted. 3-4 weeks away to get your 51 points each year when you are at a V5 is not insignificant. It really is a matter of balancing priorities - reserve service is pretty much zero sum, advancing at your civilian job will generally come at the expense of the Reserve and vice versa. You'll have to pick which Caesar upon which you will render your time at that particular chapter in your professional and personal life.
So, long way of saying, who knows the right answer. Probably getting 24-36 months of experience under your belt at the firm will make you a stronger applicant because you can at least point to XYZ in terms of an acquired skill set. But if you think the timing makes sense to put in your hat earlier than that, go for it - the worst they can say is no and you can then evaluate if it makes sense to immediately reapply or further develop your resume.
This is OP. Thanks for all of this advice. I do plan to shoot my shot and definitely make a decision from there.
Re: Military Law
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:15 am
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 6:47 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Apr 23, 2022 1:23 pm
Hi all. Was wondering if anybody might be able to offer some advice. I am currently a 2L at a T30 school. My GPA is around median, and I am on LR and moot court. I have done a JAG internship, and will be at a V5 firm this summer. After graduation, I will be doing a federal clerkship and hope to return to my firm. However, it has always been my dream to be a JAG Officer, and I want to join the JAG Reserves. I suppose my question is how competitive my application would be, and whether it would be smarter for me to apply for a slot this fall and try to commission immediately after my clerkship, or to work a 1-2 years after my clerkship and apply for a commission then? My main concern is whether my JAG duties would make it difficult for me to learn the ropes at my firm. I also would probably prefer Army/Air Force over the other branches.
Apply for the Army if you have trouble with the Air Force, I applied 4 times to the AF and was selected for the Army first time applying. The AF’s selection process seems arbitrary and they do not make it clear why they select candidates. Their “whole person” concept is cover for, “we don’t want to disclose our methodology.”
OP. Agree that I may be more competitive for Army, especially applying so early in my career. I probably will not bother applying to AF unless I do so later in my career (and I think they do not even take applicants without a couple years of experience for the AF/Air Guard).
Re: Military Law
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 3:26 pm
by Anonymous User
Anyone know hear from USAF April DAP board yet?
Re: Military Law
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:41 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 3:26 pm
Anyone know hear from USAF April DAP board yet?
I haven’t heard anything. Expecting the “not selected” email any day now.
Re: Military Law
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:52 am
by JPhillips99
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:41 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 3:26 pm
Anyone know hear from USAF April DAP board yet?
I haven’t heard anything. Expecting the “not selected” email any day now.
I haven't heard anything yet. But the application portal was updated (I think yesterday), and the Facebook page announced they're moving the September Board up to July 10. Not sure what that means in terms of applicant pool.
Re: Military Law
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:57 pm
by swharre
Calls for the 2022 Spring Active Duty Army board are going out. Received the call at 1400 CDT, good luck to all who applied.
Re: Military Law
Posted: Tue May 03, 2022 9:56 am
by Anonymous User
Rejection email for AF out
Re: Military Law
Posted: Thu May 05, 2022 5:51 pm
by Anonymous User
Wondering if there are any Active AF JAGs who have transferred in from another service and could answer a few questions about their interservice transfer experience? Would really appreciate a DM if so! Thank you!
Re: Military Law
Posted: Sun May 08, 2022 3:50 pm
by howell
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu May 05, 2022 5:51 pm
Wondering if there are any Active AF JAGs who have transferred in from another service and could answer a few questions about their interservice transfer experience? Would really appreciate a DM if so! Thank you!
I'm not who you're looking for, but I can share the one thing I heard transfers faced. It seems our promotion boards are very bad at reading performance reports from other services/jobs. For example, a prior Navy officer (nuclear something) who came to the AF JAG Corps ended up not making O-4 (which has a ~95% promotion rate). I was told at least part of the problem was the promotion board not sufficiently crediting him for what he had done in the Navy.
If you've been a JAG before, it's probably a lot easier, though.
Re: Military Law
Posted: Sun May 08, 2022 4:13 pm
by Anonymous User
howell wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 3:50 pm
I'm not who you're looking for, but I can share the one thing I heard transfers faced. It seems our promotion boards are very bad at reading performance reports from other services/jobs. For example, a prior Navy officer (nuclear something) who came to the AF JAG Corps ended up not making O-4 (which has a ~95% promotion rate). I was told at least part of the problem was the promotion board not sufficiently crediting him for what he had done in the Navy.
If you've been a JAG before, it's probably a lot easier, though.
Doesn’t that seem odd, since presumably the selection board would have reviewed his prior fit reps before he was selected? If those were so unsat that they would be a barrier to promotion, seems like AF should have told him or not selected him.
I am curious about transferring from another JAG corps, so hopefully wouldn’t have this problem.
Re: Military Law
Posted: Mon May 09, 2022 4:28 pm
by ubersaurusrex
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 4:13 pm
howell wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 3:50 pm
I'm not who you're looking for, but I can share the one thing I heard transfers faced. It seems our promotion boards are very bad at reading performance reports from other services/jobs. For example, a prior Navy officer (nuclear something) who came to the AF JAG Corps ended up not making O-4 (which has a ~95% promotion rate). I was told at least part of the problem was the promotion board not sufficiently crediting him for what he had done in the Navy.
If you've been a JAG before, it's probably a lot easier, though.
Doesn’t that seem odd, since presumably the selection board would have reviewed his prior fit reps before he was selected? If those were so unsat that they would be a barrier to promotion, seems like AF should have told him or not selected him.
I am curious about transferring from another JAG corps, so hopefully wouldn’t have this problem.
Air Force officer evals are weird. The actual substance of your eval carries little weight, and they almost entirely come down to what's called the push line and whether you have received a "stratification" from your rater. I could see how that stuff would get lost in translation on a promotion statement.
Re: Military Law
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:57 pm
by npm1
If I want to do a clerkship after graduating from a T6, should I apply for JAG after the clerkship or can I apply while still in law school and defer a year? Also, will the Air Force JAG programs with early commitment dates pose an issue with the clerkship?
Also, what is the best way to secure good exit options from JAG after 4 years? Would a second clerkship be ideal to then transition into Biglaw or as an AUSA?
Re: Military Law
Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:49 pm
by npm1
People's Eyebrow wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2010 12:25 am
Is it possible to clerk and do JAG?
I wanted to know how likely one may defer a JAG acceptance for a clerkship?
Or, how likely is it that JAG alums obtain a clerkship immediately after completing the 4 year commitment?
On a side note--do JAGs need to know how to swim? On the Fitness test it states that a Running can be done instead of a swim
It would be great to hear insight to this unanswered question in the thread. I know that there is a Supreme Court clerk in the Army JAG Corps now who also clerked for an Appeals Court. Did this person likely defer and how likely is that to be granted?
Re: Military Law
Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 5:16 pm
by Anonymous User
npm1 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:49 pm
People's Eyebrow wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2010 12:25 am
Is it possible to clerk and do JAG?
I wanted to know how likely one may defer a JAG acceptance for a clerkship?
Or, how likely is it that JAG alums obtain a clerkship immediately after completing the 4 year commitment?
On a side note--do JAGs need to know how to swim? On the Fitness test it states that a Running can be done instead of a swim
It would be great to hear insight to this unanswered question in the thread. I know that there is a Supreme Court clerk in the Army JAG Corps now who also clerked for an Appeals Court. Did this person likely defer and how likely is that to be granted?
Are you referring to Amy Chua’s daughter?
Re: Military Law
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:47 am
by ubersaurusrex
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 5:16 pm
npm1 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:49 pm
People's Eyebrow wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2010 12:25 am
Is it possible to clerk and do JAG?
I wanted to know how likely one may defer a JAG acceptance for a clerkship?
Or, how likely is it that JAG alums obtain a clerkship immediately after completing the 4 year commitment?
On a side note--do JAGs need to know how to swim? On the Fitness test it states that a Running can be done instead of a swim
It would be great to hear insight to this unanswered question in the thread. I know that there is a Supreme Court clerk in the Army JAG Corps now who also clerked for an Appeals Court. Did this person likely defer and how likely is that to be granted?
Are you referring to Amy Chua’s daughter?
If they are, that's probably a pretty rare case. She was an ROTC ed-delay, which is itself uncommon, and then lost her initial appellate clerkship when Justice Kavanaugh was appointed. If you manage to replicate the same circumstances you could probably get a deferral.
Re: Military Law
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 7:56 pm
by Anonymous User
ubersaurusrex wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:47 am
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 5:16 pm
npm1 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:49 pm
People's Eyebrow wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2010 12:25 am
Is it possible to clerk and do JAG?
I wanted to know how likely one may defer a JAG acceptance for a clerkship?
Or, how likely is it that JAG alums obtain a clerkship immediately after completing the 4 year commitment?
On a side note--do JAGs need to know how to swim? On the Fitness test it states that a Running can be done instead of a swim
It would be great to hear insight to this unanswered question in the thread. I know that there is a Supreme Court clerk in the Army JAG Corps now who also clerked for an Appeals Court. Did this person likely defer and how likely is that to be granted?
Are you referring to Amy Chua’s daughter?
If they are, that's probably a pretty rare case. She was an ROTC ed-delay, which is itself uncommon, and then lost her initial appellate clerkship when Justice Kavanaugh was appointed. If you manage to replicate the same circumstances you could probably get a deferral.
The Navy JAG Corps is very open to clerkship deferral requests, but you do need to know how to swim for the Navy.
Re: Military Law
Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:26 pm
by Anonymous User
Army JAG Active Duty, people accepted in Fall 2021, has anyone heard back about medical waiver determination yet? If so, how long did it take from submitting doctor's note and statement to hearing back? Did you hear back via Dodmerb website or direct email? Thank you.
Re: Military Law
Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:23 am
by Anonymous User
Is there an official minimum number of years needed to apply for the AF JAG Reserves/Air National Guard, or is having several years such a reccomendation?
Re: Military Law
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:17 pm
by Anonymous User
Not sure what you mean by a minimum number of years. Commitment to the JAG Corps usually means signing up for four years of active reserve service (drilling once a month and two years of active duty training a year) with four additional years in the inactive ready reserve (IRR).
www.ucmjlaw.com
Re: Military Law
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:43 am
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:17 pm
Not sure what you mean by a minimum number of years. Commitment to the JAG Corps usually means signing up for four years of active reserve service (drilling once a month and two years of active duty training a year) with four additional years in the inactive ready reserve (IRR).
www.ucmjlaw.com
Meant years of work experience/legal experience in the civilian world to be able to be offered a commission. Recruiters seem to suggest that several years will help, but have not said it was a mandatory minimum.
Re: Military Law
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:23 pm
by Patrick Bateman
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:23 am
Is there an official minimum number of years needed to apply for the AF JAG Reserves/Air National Guard, or is having several years such a reccomendation?
Did you check, maybe, the website?
https://afreserve.com/JAG/attorney.php
Or this thread, where a very similar question was recently posted?
viewtopic.php?f=68&t=31543&start=9575#p10507803
Re: Military Law
Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:15 am
by psalom625
Hi all,
If I enter as a JAG with 5+ years active service, is it reasonable to say that I will be considered for Major 2-3 years after commissioning?
Re: Military Law
Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:07 am
by ubersaurusrex
psalom625 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:15 am
Hi all,
If I enter as a JAG with 5+ years active service, is it reasonable to say that I will be considered for Major 2-3 years after commissioning?
Only if your five years was commissioned time. Otherwise you'll promote at the same time as the rest of your year group. The extra years do get you paid more, which is nice.