Military Law

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girlfromtheprairie

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Re: Military Law

Post by girlfromtheprairie » Fri May 10, 2019 7:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Current 3L AF select. I've been looking at uniforms to get an idea of how much I need to set aside to buy them (since I know we only get $400 for "uniform allowance"). I have a couple questions:

1) I've seen there are two different qualities of service dress. The standard DLATS jacket is $180 and there's another one available for $420 (I assume it is Brooks Brothers). Same goes for trousers. Are the more expensive ones worth the additional cost? How frequently do we wear service dress?

2) I have been told by several Army officers that when I buy OCPs, even though the name tapes are velcro, I should still have them sewn on since it "looks better". While I have seen some with it sewn on (and in my opinion it does look better) is it worth the added cost, or should I just stick to the velcro?

3) Do I need to buy mess dress?
I bought the standard service dress. You'd be surprised how quickly uniform items add up. I'm completely comfortable in mine, but to each their own. I wear service dress for anything courts related as well as for wing awards events.

I personally think you should have your OCP name tapes and rank sewed on. Remember that if you sew on one item, you have to sew them all on. OTS is allowing OCPs now that they have gotten rid of COT and combined groups.

There's only one CGO in my office who owns a mess dress. Currently, there's no dining in for OTS since JAGs are leaving 5 weeks into the 8 week training. I rented it for JASOC the one time we wore it. I've never worn one since. I've hear that I'll eventually need one, but I haven't yet had that need.

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Fri May 10, 2019 7:29 pm

howell wrote:
lawschoolgirl12345 wrote:Howell, thank you very much for the info. I ended up getting an email this morning. Could you (or anyone else who may know) speak as to the training part? I heard that changes were recently made and that now the training is called TFOT. Is the training more difficult than before? What would the day in the life look like for training? Is the training 5 weeks still?
TFOT will be 8 weeks as opposed to 5 weeks. My guess is it's more of the same. You actually get to fire a weapon, so that's good. They will probably be a little tougher on you than they were on us in COT . . . but they made our beds for us, if that's any indication of what "tough" will involve. It's not overly physical other than just needing to be active for much of the day. The hardest part is they try to convince you you need to work 30 hours a day to get everything done. But that's one of the big lessons - learn how to prioritize, use your team, and don't do anything more than what's required. You can actually get some decent sleep if you do those things well. But these can be difficult skills for the type-A among us.
Also, do we go straight to JAG school in Alabama after TFOT? How long would I be there for?
In the past, JASOC classes were set up to try to make this happen, but it didn't always line up. I assume they'll move JASOC classes to try to do this with TFOT, but I don't know for certain. In the past, some JAGs would do COT, then go to their base for a couple months, then come back for JASOC.

JASOC is 9 weeks. You have two goals: 1) learn enough to know where to turn for answers once you get to your office and 2) make sure your classmates who you will work with and who will talk about you to others for the rest of your career don't hate you. But it's a lot of fun.
Further, on my preference sheet I wrote mostly states and not specific bases where I would prefer to go. Say I wrote California, would this mean I would be considered for all California bases before moving down to the next preference? How likely would it be to be sent to California or Washington (State, not DC)? Is California very competitive generally speaking? I feel like Washington would be much less competitive to get (Im assuming just generally that less people would put it at the top of their list). I heard that the Los Angeles Air Force base may be hard to get as a first tour jag because they focus on government contracts, which is not something a first tour jag would likely not do (first tour would focus on military prosecution mainly?). Is that correct?
I have not worked in assignments, but here is my understanding. At a certain point, you will be ready for JAX to give you an assignment. For law students, this will be once you let JAX know you have passed the bar. They'll look at what slots are open and at your list and try to get you something you want. I have had several friends get their first choice . . . and others get bases they didn't know how to spell in areas of the country they didn't ask for. There is a little luck in the timing.

If you put California, they will think ANY base in California will make you happy. So make sure you're willing to roll the dice if you put a particular state. "Washington" is probably not amazingly competitive, but Lewis-McChord right outside of Seattle very likely is. Fairchild would likely be less in demand.

Los Angeles AFB just has second assignment Capts right now, so that might be right. But part of the analysis is getting the new JAG to a base with enough military justice to get them well rounded (and trial certified). During your first assignment, they will try to get you a good mix of military justice, legal assistance, and sections you can be the "chief" of. But some people do end up going to slow military justice bases for their first assignment.
Currently, the JAGs going through TFOT/OTS are only staying for the first five weeks. They do not complete the 8 weeks (so they aren't in the field or doing weapons training). Depending on their class, they're either spending 2 weeks or 2 months at their base between OTS and JASOC. Rumor has it that nobody will be going straight through from OTS to JASOC anymore so that they can have the time to be in-processed and properly gained at their new base.

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Quasar

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Re: Military Law

Post by Quasar » Fri May 10, 2019 8:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
howell wrote:
lawschoolgirl12345 wrote:Howell, thank you very much for the info. I ended up getting an email this morning. Could you (or anyone else who may know) speak as to the training part? I heard that changes were recently made and that now the training is called TFOT. Is the training more difficult than before? What would the day in the life look like for training? Is the training 5 weeks still?
TFOT will be 8 weeks as opposed to 5 weeks. My guess is it's more of the same. You actually get to fire a weapon, so that's good. They will probably be a little tougher on you than they were on us in COT . . . but they made our beds for us, if that's any indication of what "tough" will involve. It's not overly physical other than just needing to be active for much of the day. The hardest part is they try to convince you you need to work 30 hours a day to get everything done. But that's one of the big lessons - learn how to prioritize, use your team, and don't do anything more than what's required. You can actually get some decent sleep if you do those things well. But these can be difficult skills for the type-A among us.
Also, do we go straight to JAG school in Alabama after TFOT? How long would I be there for?
In the past, JASOC classes were set up to try to make this happen, but it didn't always line up. I assume they'll move JASOC classes to try to do this with TFOT, but I don't know for certain. In the past, some JAGs would do COT, then go to their base for a couple months, then come back for JASOC.

JASOC is 9 weeks. You have two goals: 1) learn enough to know where to turn for answers once you get to your office and 2) make sure your classmates who you will work with and who will talk about you to others for the rest of your career don't hate you. But it's a lot of fun.
Further, on my preference sheet I wrote mostly states and not specific bases where I would prefer to go. Say I wrote California, would this mean I would be considered for all California bases before moving down to the next preference? How likely would it be to be sent to California or Washington (State, not DC)? Is California very competitive generally speaking? I feel like Washington would be much less competitive to get (Im assuming just generally that less people would put it at the top of their list). I heard that the Los Angeles Air Force base may be hard to get as a first tour jag because they focus on government contracts, which is not something a first tour jag would likely not do (first tour would focus on military prosecution mainly?). Is that correct?
I have not worked in assignments, but here is my understanding. At a certain point, you will be ready for JAX to give you an assignment. For law students, this will be once you let JAX know you have passed the bar. They'll look at what slots are open and at your list and try to get you something you want. I have had several friends get their first choice . . . and others get bases they didn't know how to spell in areas of the country they didn't ask for. There is a little luck in the timing.

If you put California, they will think ANY base in California will make you happy. So make sure you're willing to roll the dice if you put a particular state. "Washington" is probably not amazingly competitive, but Lewis-McChord right outside of Seattle very likely is. Fairchild would likely be less in demand.

Los Angeles AFB just has second assignment Capts right now, so that might be right. But part of the analysis is getting the new JAG to a base with enough military justice to get them well rounded (and trial certified). During your first assignment, they will try to get you a good mix of military justice, legal assistance, and sections you can be the "chief" of. But some people do end up going to slow military justice bases for their first assignment.
Currently, the JAGs going through TFOT/OTS are only staying for the first five weeks. They do not complete the 8 weeks (so they aren't in the field or doing weapons training). Depending on their class, they're either spending 2 weeks or 2 months at their base between OTS and JASOC. Rumor has it that nobody will be going straight through from OTS to JASOC anymore so that they can have the time to be in-processed and properly gained at their new base.
I was also told that starting with this October's class, there will no longer be anyone going straight from OTS to JASOC. Recruiting command also informed new selectees that the October class will be the first group to participate at OTS for the full 8 weeks.

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Tue May 14, 2019 9:53 pm

Army Reserve selectee here. Is there any benefit to commissioning early, if I will have to wait 4-5 months to start DCC/JAOBC? It seems like there is no upside to commissioning early, because I would presumably start incurring a drilling obligation right away, but wouldn't be able to do any actual JAG work at my reserve unit. Am I missing something? Should I push to commission asap?

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howell

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Re: Military Law

Post by howell » Thu May 16, 2019 2:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Army Reserve selectee here. Is there any benefit to commissioning early, if I will have to wait 4-5 months to start DCC/JAOBC? It seems like there is no upside to commissioning early, because I would presumably start incurring a drilling obligation right away, but wouldn't be able to do any actual JAG work at my reserve unit. Am I missing something? Should I push to commission asap?
AF JAG here. Listen to any Army JAG (AD or Reserve) before me. Especially if this would be detrimental to the promotion process for you. If you know your Reserve unit, you might want to check with them as well. But here are some thoughts.

Commissioning early would presumably set your pay date that much earlier. So pay raises would come 4-5 months sooner, and you might get to 20 quicker, if that matters to you.

Even most Reserve offices should be able to find things for you to do. We do a lot of things that don't require a bar license, and even for those that do, you could certainly draft opinions or do a lot of the leg work.

I don't know your background, but I was a civilian with zero military experience before attending officer & JAG training. It would have helped me to know more context about what I was learning at JAG school, and I could have had that if I had spent some time at my base beforehand.

God knows it might take 4-5 months to get all of your computer accounts working. So it would give you a head start on that.

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Thu May 16, 2019 3:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Army Reserve selectee here. Is there any benefit to commissioning early, if I will have to wait 4-5 months to start DCC/JAOBC? It seems like there is no upside to commissioning early, because I would presumably start incurring a drilling obligation right away, but wouldn't be able to do any actual JAG work at my reserve unit. Am I missing something? Should I push to commission asap?
Yes! Absolutely! Commission as EARLY as possible as an Army reservist. Here are reasons why:

1. It starts your clock towards 20 years or towards being able to get out on your own terms.
2. It will allow you to get your promotion to O-3 sooner. For Army reserve, you can become a CPT once you completed DCC/JAOBC and have 1-year of commissioned service. The problem is they only accept packets a few times a year (April, August, November/December), and if you happen to commission on August 2, but the packet is due on August 1, you don't get to submit for promotion in August: you wait an extra few months.
3. You have time so you can go get a CAC, get your uniforms and gear squared away, and buy that sweet tax-free booze at your local PX. You can even sign up for Tricare if that matters to you or if you are in need of health insurance.
4. You can go to drill and get a heads-up on what your unit is like. This may help guide you while you are JAOBC to understand what items are more important to know as a reservist, and will also help you understand some of the Army culture.

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Sun May 26, 2019 10:06 am

I have no idea where to post this so I'm just kind of throwing it up here, but I have a general question for the thread about precisely how disqualifying a history of alcoholism/drug use is for JAG. Let's say (TOTALLY HYPOTHETICALLY) this interested applicant was a T6 student who had received a DUI over five years ago which had since been expunged, had been sober for several years with the help of AA, had a sponsor, sponsored other men in the program, etc, and at the time of graduation would be clean and sober for nearly five years. Is the sobriety mitigating or is the drug/alcohol abuse a total DQ?

Also, side note, does anyone have a concrete sense how this would impact security clearances down the road if our applicant really wanted to eventually land at DoJ/other BigFed after spending time in BigLaw?

My sense is that it's totally disqualifying for JAG, but--assuming continued sobriety, which at that point in our applicants career would be ~10 years--not necessarily an insurmountable challenge on the BigFed front re security clearances.

Feel free to shatter the second hope.

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howell

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Re: Military Law

Post by howell » Sun May 26, 2019 1:07 pm

From the Air Force side, our recruiting people would say it's possible. I heard a horror story of someone having to apply 14 times before getting selected, and Recruiting later told me it was because the person previously received a DUI and had to separate themselves from it. I am not aware of anything that makes it an absolute no. I would try a different interviewer every time, because there are some SJAs who will never give you the nod. I know others who would be open to it.

I'm only used to security clearances in the DoD context. Considering the (EXTREMELY HYPOTHETICAL) example you gave, I can't image that would be a problem for a secret clearance. As a defense counsel, I assisted clients in getting their secret clearances back, and the adjudication authorities truly looked to see if you could be trusted with that kind of material. My clients' situations were more recent than the example you gave, and we still had success. As for a TS, I don't have as much experience with those.

I know this wasn't terribly helpful, but the military could use more JAGs who faced adversity and/or screwed up in their past (and got caught). We have a tendency to be a little inhuman when dealing with those we advise on the discipline of, and I think that keeps us and our commanders out of touch with what actually works for good order and discipline.

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Sun May 26, 2019 2:05 pm

howell wrote:From the Air Force side, our recruiting people would say it's possible. I heard a horror story of someone having to apply 14 times before getting selected, and Recruiting later told me it was because the person previously received a DUI and had to separate themselves from it. I am not aware of anything that makes it an absolute no. I would try a different interviewer every time, because there are some SJAs who will never give you the nod. I know others who would be open to it.

I'm only used to security clearances in the DoD context. Considering the (EXTREMELY HYPOTHETICAL) example you gave, I can't image that would be a problem for a secret clearance. As a defense counsel, I assisted clients in getting their secret clearances back, and the adjudication authorities truly looked to see if you could be trusted with that kind of material. My clients' situations were more recent than the example you gave, and we still had success. As for a TS, I don't have as much experience with those.

I know this wasn't terribly helpful, but the military could use more JAGs who faced adversity and/or screwed up in their past (and got caught). We have a tendency to be a little inhuman when dealing with those we advise on the discipline of, and I think that keeps us and our commanders out of touch with what actually works for good order and discipline.
Thank you. This was a substantially rosier picture than I anticipated.

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Sun May 26, 2019 6:45 pm

On the subject of disqualifications -- I noticed a question earlier in this thread about scoliosis and whether it would be a definite medical disqualification and whether a waiver would be successful or not.

Does anyone have insight to the severity of a scoliosis disqualification and the likelihood of medical disqualification by the Command Surgeon or subsequent success of a waiver? Understanding that each person's situation can swing it one way or the other, assume that there are absolutely no physical limitations in leading a very active life, working out, carrying heavy stuff, sitting for long periods of time at a desk, etc -- just the problem of being over the number of degrees of curve in the spine.

Welcoming any branch insight, but specifically looking at any experience in dealing with getting medically qualified for the Army.

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married BAH during training pipeline

Post by wolf3dfan » Sun May 26, 2019 8:55 pm

Esquire wrote:
ZeroDay wrote:
bouakedojo wrote:Wow, that's quite a turnaround time. 13 months? Just curious, what are you doing while you wait?
I'm working as an associate at a small firm. With the Army there is just no way to avoid the long gap between being selected and the start of training. My FSO and others told me that it could be a year or longer before I'd start on active duty, but I honestly wasn't expecting to have to wait this long...

The other thing they don't go out of their way to tell you during the application process is how much money new JAGC officers will have to pay out of pocket at the beginning of training -- it's a lot. You get reimbursed for a good chunk, but I've heard it takes about a month to get paid. So, not only do potential JAGs need to plan to have something to do between between the application process and the start of training, but they also need to save a lot of money or arrange a line of credit. When July 2013 rolls around, I'll have to buy uniforms, pay for my hotel room during the Ft. Lee phase, pay for my own food, keep paying rent on my apartment, and keep paying my wife and child's expenses. I'll also have to separate from my family during (at least) much of the training, and I don't think I'll get BAH for that time.

Even with all of that, there's no way in hell I'd make any other choice.
You don't pay for your hotel room during Ft. Lee. We had a voucher. This could be iffy, though, I agree. The voucher system was new for our class. I imagine either the kinks have been worked out or they'll have a new system in place.

You'll get BAH based on where your apartment/family is. You WILL get BAH and it's based off of that.

You'll get Family Separation Allowance. That'll help a bit with your wife's and child's expenses.

Where did you get all this misinformation?
I'm an Army JAG select, prior service (but discharged and currently still just a civilian processing in) and married. Can anyone confirm married folks still get BAH during DCC and JAOBC? Many, many bonus point if you know if a written instruction deals with this or where it is written down for the Army if anywhere.

This topic of BAH for married folks during training has come up occasionally, but the posts are old. I've seen the question answered similarly in the affirmative for USAF and USN training pipelines also. However, I've never seen anything official in writing other than a USN letter posted on a .mil website for NJS students saying they'll get BAH for their dependents. I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch, but it would help me sleep better at night knowing I've got that BAH to look forward to. I can't find anything in writing for the life of me.

I also saw folks saying pay tends to be screwed up first month or two. If anyone had to wait longer than two months to start getting BAH please share as that would be good to know if that's a probability (I know anything bad is possible with DFAS lol).

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Re: married BAH during training pipeline

Post by Anonymous User » Mon May 27, 2019 10:13 pm

wolf3dfan wrote:
Esquire wrote:
ZeroDay wrote:
bouakedojo wrote:Wow, that's quite a turnaround time. 13 months? Just curious, what are you doing while you wait?
I'm working as an associate at a small firm. With the Army there is just no way to avoid the long gap between being selected and the start of training. My FSO and others told me that it could be a year or longer before I'd start on active duty, but I honestly wasn't expecting to have to wait this long...

The other thing they don't go out of their way to tell you during the application process is how much money new JAGC officers will have to pay out of pocket at the beginning of training -- it's a lot. You get reimbursed for a good chunk, but I've heard it takes about a month to get paid. So, not only do potential JAGs need to plan to have something to do between between the application process and the start of training, but they also need to save a lot of money or arrange a line of credit. When July 2013 rolls around, I'll have to buy uniforms, pay for my hotel room during the Ft. Lee phase, pay for my own food, keep paying rent on my apartment, and keep paying my wife and child's expenses. I'll also have to separate from my family during (at least) much of the training, and I don't think I'll get BAH for that time.

Even with all of that, there's no way in hell I'd make any other choice.
You don't pay for your hotel room during Ft. Lee. We had a voucher. This could be iffy, though, I agree. The voucher system was new for our class. I imagine either the kinks have been worked out or they'll have a new system in place.

You'll get BAH based on where your apartment/family is. You WILL get BAH and it's based off of that.

You'll get Family Separation Allowance. That'll help a bit with your wife's and child's expenses.

Where did you get all this misinformation?
I'm an Army JAG select, prior service (but discharged and currently still just a civilian processing in) and married. Can anyone confirm married folks still get BAH during DCC and JAOBC? Many, many bonus point if you know if a written instruction deals with this or where it is written down for the Army if anywhere.

This topic of BAH for married folks during training has come up occasionally, but the posts are old. I've seen the question answered similarly in the affirmative for USAF and USN training pipelines also. However, I've never seen anything official in writing other than a USN letter posted on a .mil website for NJS students saying they'll get BAH for their dependents. I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch, but it would help me sleep better at night knowing I've got that BAH to look forward to. I can't find anything in writing for the life of me.

I also saw folks saying pay tends to be screwed up first month or two. If anyone had to wait longer than two months to start getting BAH please share as that would be good to know if that's a probability (I know anything bad is possible with DFAS lol).
Why would you not get BAH if you have a valid rental agreement or mortgage? We had plenty of people in our class who had major pay issues for months. So yes, I would start saving.

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Tue May 28, 2019 8:22 pm

Anyone here have any experience dealing with having training delayed for up to a year after school for one reason or another? Any advice on what you did in the interim and how you navigated that process?

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Re: Military Law

Post by Legaleagle21 » Tue May 28, 2019 9:50 pm

GLP selectee here. Does anyone know if the AF will let you defer your commission to clerk for a year?

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Re: married BAH during training pipeline

Post by wolf3dfan » Wed May 29, 2019 8:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:
wolf3dfan wrote:
Esquire wrote:
ZeroDay wrote:
bouakedojo wrote:Wow, that's quite a turnaround time. 13 months? Just curious, what are you doing while you wait?
I'm working as an associate at a small firm. With the Army there is just no way to avoid the long gap between being selected and the start of training. My FSO and others told me that it could be a year or longer before I'd start on active duty, but I honestly wasn't expecting to have to wait this long...

The other thing they don't go out of their way to tell you during the application process is how much money new JAGC officers will have to pay out of pocket at the beginning of training -- it's a lot. You get reimbursed for a good chunk, but I've heard it takes about a month to get paid. So, not only do potential JAGs need to plan to have something to do between between the application process and the start of training, but they also need to save a lot of money or arrange a line of credit. When July 2013 rolls around, I'll have to buy uniforms, pay for my hotel room during the Ft. Lee phase, pay for my own food, keep paying rent on my apartment, and keep paying my wife and child's expenses. I'll also have to separate from my family during (at least) much of the training, and I don't think I'll get BAH for that time.

Even with all of that, there's no way in hell I'd make any other choice.
You don't pay for your hotel room during Ft. Lee. We had a voucher. This could be iffy, though, I agree. The voucher system was new for our class. I imagine either the kinks have been worked out or they'll have a new system in place.

You'll get BAH based on where your apartment/family is. You WILL get BAH and it's based off of that.

You'll get Family Separation Allowance. That'll help a bit with your wife's and child's expenses.

Where did you get all this misinformation?
I'm an Army JAG select, prior service (but discharged and currently still just a civilian processing in) and married. Can anyone confirm married folks still get BAH during DCC and JAOBC? Many, many bonus point if you know if a written instruction deals with this or where it is written down for the Army if anywhere.

This topic of BAH for married folks during training has come up occasionally, but the posts are old. I've seen the question answered similarly in the affirmative for USAF and USN training pipelines also. However, I've never seen anything official in writing other than a USN letter posted on a .mil website for NJS students saying they'll get BAH for their dependents. I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch, but it would help me sleep better at night knowing I've got that BAH to look forward to. I can't find anything in writing for the life of me.

I also saw folks saying pay tends to be screwed up first month or two. If anyone had to wait longer than two months to start getting BAH please share as that would be good to know if that's a probability (I know anything bad is possible with DFAS lol).
Why would you not get BAH if you have a valid rental agreement or mortgage? We had plenty of people in our class who had major pay issues for months. So yes, I would start saving.
Thanks for the heads up re pay delays. The lease etc. is no problem. Perhaps I'm paranoid that they won't start my BAH until I get to my first "real" command, or only pay for the zip code of the training command. When I started my first period of service (as single, enlisted) I didn't get any BAH during basic or advanced training. Of course, I didn't know what I was missing out on at the time, lol. But now... we live in one of the most expensive cities, so the idea of coming in making O2-E and that massive BAH sounds almost too good to be true. And I guess in a way it is because it sounds like it'll probably take them a long minute to get the pay right.

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Thu May 30, 2019 10:33 pm

Legaleagle21 wrote:GLP selectee here. Does anyone know if the AF will let you defer your commission to clerk for a year?
You can submit a deferment request to JAX. AFI 51-101 5.5.2 says if you want to delay entrance onto active duty you must submit a written request to the Chief of Accessions detailing the reason and the date available for active duty. Deferments are reviewed on a case-by-case basis. AF/JAX is the approval authority for all deferment requests.

Some things to consider too:

1. Do you want to be that guy asking for exceptions right from the get-go as new officer? This kind of move will cost political capital which you don’t have much of starting out. Some people at JAX may think it’s a great opportunity and others may think it’s a waste of time. Probably depends on the prestige or applicability of the clerkship but just something to consider.

2. If you do this your line number will be later compared to everyone else in your graduating class. Meaning you won’t get credit for your clerking time like you would maybe at a firm, and you’ll be lower on the list when they are going through promotions.

3. How does this play in with your long-term goals? Make sure you have a clear reason for how this helps you get where you want to go.

Good luck!

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Re: married BAH during training pipeline

Post by Anonymous User » Thu May 30, 2019 11:38 pm

wolf3dfan wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
wolf3dfan wrote:
Esquire wrote:
ZeroDay wrote:
bouakedojo wrote:Wow, that's quite a turnaround time. 13 months? Just curious, what are you doing while you wait?
I'm working as an associate at a small firm. With the Army there is just no way to avoid the long gap between being selected and the start of training. My FSO and others told me that it could be a year or longer before I'd start on active duty, but I honestly wasn't expecting to have to wait this long...

The other thing they don't go out of their way to tell you during the application process is how much money new JAGC officers will have to pay out of pocket at the beginning of training -- it's a lot. You get reimbursed for a good chunk, but I've heard it takes about a month to get paid. So, not only do potential JAGs need to plan to have something to do between between the application process and the start of training, but they also need to save a lot of money or arrange a line of credit. When July 2013 rolls around, I'll have to buy uniforms, pay for my hotel room during the Ft. Lee phase, pay for my own food, keep paying rent on my apartment, and keep paying my wife and child's expenses. I'll also have to separate from my family during (at least) much of the training, and I don't think I'll get BAH for that time.

Even with all of that, there's no way in hell I'd make any other choice.
You don't pay for your hotel room during Ft. Lee. We had a voucher. This could be iffy, though, I agree. The voucher system was new for our class. I imagine either the kinks have been worked out or they'll have a new system in place.

You'll get BAH based on where your apartment/family is. You WILL get BAH and it's based off of that.

You'll get Family Separation Allowance. That'll help a bit with your wife's and child's expenses.

Where did you get all this misinformation?
I'm an Army JAG select, prior service (but discharged and currently still just a civilian processing in) and married. Can anyone confirm married folks still get BAH during DCC and JAOBC? Many, many bonus point if you know if a written instruction deals with this or where it is written down for the Army if anywhere.

This topic of BAH for married folks during training has come up occasionally, but the posts are old. I've seen the question answered similarly in the affirmative for USAF and USN training pipelines also. However, I've never seen anything official in writing other than a USN letter posted on a .mil website for NJS students saying they'll get BAH for their dependents. I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch, but it would help me sleep better at night knowing I've got that BAH to look forward to. I can't find anything in writing for the life of me.

I also saw folks saying pay tends to be screwed up first month or two. If anyone had to wait longer than two months to start getting BAH please share as that would be good to know if that's a probability (I know anything bad is possible with DFAS lol).
Why would you not get BAH if you have a valid rental agreement or mortgage? We had plenty of people in our class who had major pay issues for months. So yes, I would start saving.
Thanks for the heads up re pay delays. The lease etc. is no problem. Perhaps I'm paranoid that they won't start my BAH until I get to my first "real" command, or only pay for the zip code of the training command. When I started my first period of service (as single, enlisted) I didn't get any BAH during basic or advanced training. Of course, I didn't know what I was missing out on at the time, lol. But now... we live in one of the most expensive cities, so the idea of coming in making O2-E and that massive BAH sounds almost too good to be true. And I guess in a way it is because it sounds like it'll probably take them a long minute to get the pay right.
You will receive BAH at the rate set for your dependent’s current zip code while you are at DCC and OBC. So you will receive a very high BAH for those months you are in training. Then it will change to your permanent duty station’s rate (if you are active).

Active duty with no dependents don’t get BAH until they arrive at their duty station.

Active duty folks didn’t have many pay issues. We started getting paid two to three weeks after arriving. A lot of the pay issues were for reservists who didn’t have dependents but were claiming BAH to cover their leases/mortgages.

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Legaleagle21

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Re: Military Law

Post by Legaleagle21 » Fri May 31, 2019 3:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Legaleagle21 wrote:GLP selectee here. Does anyone know if the AF will let you defer your commission to clerk for a year?
You can submit a deferment request to JAX. AFI 51-101 5.5.2 says if you want to delay entrance onto active duty you must submit a written request to the Chief of Accessions detailing the reason and the date available for active duty. Deferments are reviewed on a case-by-case basis. AF/JAX is the approval authority for all deferment requests.

Some things to consider too:

1. Do you want to be that guy asking for exceptions right from the get-go as new officer? This kind of move will cost political capital which you don’t have much of starting out. Some people at JAX may think it’s a great opportunity and others may think it’s a waste of time. Probably depends on the prestige or applicability of the clerkship but just something to consider.

2. If you do this your line number will be later compared to everyone else in your graduating class. Meaning you won’t get credit for your clerking time like you would maybe at a firm, and you’ll be lower on the list when they are going through promotions.

3. How does this play in with your long-term goals? Make sure you have a clear reason for how this helps you get where you want to go.

Good luck!
Thanks for the reply. I'm wondering because eventually I think I might want to end up at the USAO in my home state, and having a good recommendation from a judge might make that transition easier. Perhaps clerking post-JAG would be better though, since I don't know at what point my in career I'd want to make that transition, and that way the reference would be fresh. That's what Conor Lamb did (PA Congressman). Plus, then there's a chance I wouldn't even need clerking as a bridge.

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chadwickbradshaw

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Re: Military Law

Post by chadwickbradshaw » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:14 pm

Just wanted to give an update to those that were selected as alternates for Army Jag. I got an email a couple of days ago saying that I was selected for an active duty commission. I was put on the alternate list back in December 2018.

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butlerraider1

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Re: Military Law

Post by butlerraider1 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:16 am

Hi all. I have been looking all over for the answer to this seemingly straight-forward question and was wondering if anyone here could help. My friend is in the Reserves for the Army and he said he has an eight-year commitment, but what is the commitment length for the Reserve components of the other branches?

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Post by Patrick Bateman » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:16 am

Legaleagle21 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Legaleagle21 wrote:GLP selectee here. Does anyone know if the AF will let you defer your commission to clerk for a year?
You can submit a deferment request to JAX. AFI 51-101 5.5.2 says if you want to delay entrance onto active duty you must submit a written request to the Chief of Accessions detailing the reason and the date available for active duty. Deferments are reviewed on a case-by-case basis. AF/JAX is the approval authority for all deferment requests.

Some things to consider too:

1. Do you want to be that guy asking for exceptions right from the get-go as new officer? This kind of move will cost political capital which you don’t have much of starting out. Some people at JAX may think it’s a great opportunity and others may think it’s a waste of time. Probably depends on the prestige or applicability of the clerkship but just something to consider.

2. If you do this your line number will be later compared to everyone else in your graduating class. Meaning you won’t get credit for your clerking time like you would maybe at a firm, and you’ll be lower on the list when they are going through promotions.

3. How does this play in with your long-term goals? Make sure you have a clear reason for how this helps you get where you want to go.

Good luck!
Thanks for the reply. I'm wondering because eventually I think I might want to end up at the USAO in my home state, and having a good recommendation from a judge might make that transition easier. Perhaps clerking post-JAG would be better though, since I don't know at what point my in career I'd want to make that transition, and that way the reference would be fresh. That's what Conor Lamb did (PA Congressman). Plus, then there's a chance I wouldn't even need clerking as a bridge.
Interesting question. I think I could make arguments for the merits of both pre and post JAG clerkships.

I agree with the anon poster above in terms of making sure the juice is worth the squeeze -- I'm assuming we are talking State Supreme Court or Fed District (or higher) in my analysis. If this is for something smaller, my answers would probably change.

So, assuming we are talking a real deal clerkship, I would not worry too much about irking the folks at JAX. You will be one of a million problems are they dealing with any given week.

The advantage to clerking pre-JAG is that you have it in the bag. It is already a solid resume line that can help you when you make your transition off of active duty -- I'm assuming you are considering punching at the 6-8 year mark if you thinking about being an AUSA. You will stand out well as a transitioning JAG that already has a major credential on the resume. I for sure would have liked to already have a clerkship already on my resume when I was making my jump to Main Justice.

Post-JAG does give you the benefit in terms of recency and the ability to more actively market your connections. I know a handful of JAGs that have gone Fed district and/or circuit after getting off of active duty. They've done very well.

Doing it after JAG, however, does add another year (or more) to you reaching your overall goal. It also may mean a move somewhere that is not your "forever" city, depending on the district/circuit. Take it from a now older guy, moving to District X when you are fresh out of law school and young is a very different sight picture than when you are early/mid 30s. You could be married and with a family after six years on AD and frankly, moving for a clerkship may not be as realistic. This is all quite variable intensive but it is worth considering - I know my life plans, maturity, and goals all evolved over six years. Yours may too.

Good luck to you!

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bergers2short

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Re: Military Law

Post by bergers2short » Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:19 pm

butlerraider1 wrote:Hi all. I have been looking all over for the answer to this seemingly straight-forward question and was wondering if anyone here could help. My friend is in the Reserves for the Army and he said he has an eight-year commitment, but what is the commitment length for the Reserve components of the other branches?
8 years is the standard commitment for an enlistment in any branch. For active duty, that's typically broken up into 4 years active/4 years reserve. After those 4 years AD, you can do nothing in the inactive ready reserves while you wait for your commitment to end, or you can drill in the selected reserves. That breakup of AD/Reserves time is what makes it seem like there's differing obligation lengths.

So, if you can't find any specific info on other branches websites, I would assume an 8 year commitment for the selected reserves. You might be able to drop from the selected (drilling) reserves to the inactive ready reserves (non-drilling) at some point during your commitment. That would depend on the branches policies. You could try looking through a branches personnel command website instead of their recruiting site for that info.

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Dawg57

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Re: Military Law

Post by Dawg57 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:22 am

chadwickbradshaw wrote:Just wanted to give an update to those that were selected as alternates for Army Jag. I got an email a couple of days ago saying that I was selected for an active duty commission. I was put on the alternate list back in December 2018.
I got the same email, and know at least one other person at my school that got a bump to AD as well. It seems a large round of love ups occurred this last week. Now with Navy and Army offers in hand, I have a big decision to make regarding where to commission in the coming month(s)

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:31 pm

Any March AF DAP selectees medically qualified yet? If so, do you have a COT/OTS date? Just curious where others are in the process!

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Any March AF DAP selectees medically qualified yet? If so, do you have a COT/OTS date? Just curious where others are in the process!
I was selected in December and haven't even been to MEPS yet.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
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