Military Law

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Legaleagle21

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Re: Military Law

Post by Legaleagle21 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just got the good news call from my SJA, so it looks like selection notifications for GLP and OYCP have begun. Good luck to everyone in the running!
Same. I got an acceptance GLP call today as well.
Just got the call from my SJA. I’m in as well!!

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:11 pm

Rocky123 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:For Amry, no one can log into dodmets/dodmerb yet right?
I can't either
I'm RC. Logged in, filled out the form, and set up appointments yesterday.

I got an e-mail from Concorde, Inc. w/ instructions on how to log into DODMETS. Dunno if that makes a difference.

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:38 pm

So no call today is equivalent to rejection then right?

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So no call today is equivalent to rejection then right?
Not entirely. Notifications to SJAs went out today, so SJAs are supposed to contact selectees ASAP.

I'm aware of an SJA who didn't check their e-mail until late today and will be making a call tonight. Hypothetically.

But I would expect the calls to be finished by Monday.

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:02 pm

Is there any point in time during DCC or OBC that we have a commissioning ceremony where we can invite friends to pin our bars on?

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brainking

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Re: Military Law

Post by brainking » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:43 pm

LawDaug wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
LawDaug wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I hate to keep asking, but has there been any movement at all on OYCP/GLP calls? I'm hoping that not having received a call by now is explained through the snow day at the Pentagon, as well as the board not meeting until sometime during the week of the 11-15th, rather than it being a sign of non-selection. I read somewhere that the usual timeline for results to be released is 3 weeks after the board meets, but it seems like the turnaround is slightly faster for the ROTC board on average.
I am in the same boat. Have not heard anything yet. However I understand that Externship calls went out day before last, so I'm thinking end of the week. No particular reason for that, just my gut instinct.
Are you sure about the externship calls? 1Ls or 2Ls? Why would they hand out externship offers before GLP/OYCP and paid internships? Presumably people that are competitive for unpaid positions would be competitive for identical paid positions, no?
I'm sure 1L externship calls went out this week, I know a guy who got an offer. Don't have any first-hand info about 2L externships.
I got an 1L externship offer that I declined. I had an offer for a paid clerkship which I would rank in preference between that and the paid internship so I chose not to pursue the externship. I have not seen movement on my internship status since referral.

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:23 pm

Where does the AF post available JAG assignments? I logged into Talent Marketplace and it said "all officers (minus JAG)". So I assume this means JAG does not post our openings on there. Granted, I know it's not currently the part of the cycle where openings would be posted, but I'm curious as to where I would look.

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howell

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Re: Military Law

Post by howell » Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Where does the AF post available JAG assignments? I logged into Talent Marketplace and it said "all officers (minus JAG)". So I assume this means JAG does not post our openings on there. Granted, I know it's not currently the part of the cycle where openings would be posted, but I'm curious as to where I would look.
They post them under our JAG systems. Technically on a page under our knowledge management system, so I doubt it would be available outside the JAG Corps. They'll generally post a forecast for the next summer in late summer/early fall. But that's just a snapshot and their best guess at the time.

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:23 am

During in-processing, did anyone have to get their wisdom teeth removed?

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ubersaurusrex

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Re: Military Law

Post by ubersaurusrex » Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:54 pm

I'm prior service with experience in signals and cyber intelligence and I'd like to do related work as a JAG. I just wanted to see if anyone had opinions between the Navy and the Air Force in terms of how much you can specialize in cyber operations. I've applied to both, but wouldn't mind some additional insight.

For example, the Navy has this guidance on career development in that field, but I can't find anything similar for the Air Force. Is this a specialty that each branch wants developed in their Jag Corps?

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howell

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Re: Military Law

Post by howell » Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:14 pm

ubersaurusrex wrote:I'm prior service with experience in signals and cyber intelligence and I'd like to do related work as a JAG. I just wanted to see if anyone had opinions between the Navy and the Air Force in terms of how much you can specialize in cyber operations. I've applied to both, but wouldn't mind some additional insight.

For example, the Navy has this guidance on career development in that field, but I can't find anything similar for the Air Force. Is this a specialty that each branch wants developed in their Jag Corps?
I am not aware of anything nearly as detailed regarding a cyber/intel career path in the Air Force.

We have placed a higher priority on developing these skills by sending more people to get their "Cyber" LLM at Nebraska. It's actually Space, Cyber, and Telecommunications Law, but we want to call it cyber, so we do. We're sending ~5 people a year there currently. You can typically apply for the LLM program around the end of your first 4 years in. Most people will go between 4-10 years in, typically as an O-3 or O-4.

There is the current career path and then what I hope/expect we'll need to do at some point in the future. Currently, the plan is that you would get a "cyber" billet straight out of the LLM. That might be 2-3 years. But then the AF has a habit of trying to develop you on the leadership side, so you might then go to a DSJA position at a large base, and then perhaps back into the cyber community. There is a bit of bouncing around. So it has not been likely so far to just stay in the cyber world.

I expect/hope we'll realize that's a giant waste and start keeping people in cyber billets for longer periods of time (or the rest of their careers). It's not terribly easy to exit that world for 3 years and then try to pop right back in. But we'll see what happens.

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Re: Military Law

Post by ubersaurusrex » Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:19 pm

howell wrote:
ubersaurusrex wrote:I'm prior service with experience in signals and cyber intelligence and I'd like to do related work as a JAG. I just wanted to see if anyone had opinions between the Navy and the Air Force in terms of how much you can specialize in cyber operations. I've applied to both, but wouldn't mind some additional insight.

For example, the Navy has this guidance on career development in that field, but I can't find anything similar for the Air Force. Is this a specialty that each branch wants developed in their Jag Corps?
I am not aware of anything nearly as detailed regarding a cyber/intel career path in the Air Force.

We have placed a higher priority on developing these skills by sending more people to get their "Cyber" LLM at Nebraska. It's actually Space, Cyber, and Telecommunications Law, but we want to call it cyber, so we do. We're sending ~5 people a year there currently. You can typically apply for the LLM program around the end of your first 4 years in. Most people will go between 4-10 years in, typically as an O-3 or O-4.

There is the current career path and then what I hope/expect we'll need to do at some point in the future. Currently, the plan is that you would get a "cyber" billet straight out of the LLM. That might be 2-3 years. But then the AF has a habit of trying to develop you on the leadership side, so you might then go to a DSJA position at a large base, and then perhaps back into the cyber community. There is a bit of bouncing around. So it has not been likely so far to just stay in the cyber world.

I expect/hope we'll realize that's a giant waste and start keeping people in cyber billets for longer periods of time (or the rest of their careers). It's not terribly easy to exit that world for 3 years and then try to pop right back in. But we'll see what happens.
How competitive is the LLM application? 5 slots isn't that many.

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howell

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Re: Military Law

Post by howell » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:38 pm

ubersaurusrex wrote: How competitive is the LLM application? 5 slots isn't that many.
I don't know of exact numbers. Each year, we send about 30 people to LLM programs (labor, contracts, cyber, etc.). Each year, there seems to be about a 50% selection rate for the entire pool, but they don't break it down by program. I have known people to not get selected in a given year, but I haven't known someone who made it their intention to get an LLM and not eventually get it. I think you can greatly increase your odds through timing and being liked. The odds are probably a little better for the programs that take 5+ candidates as opposed to a 1- or 2-slot program where you could easily get nosed out.

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Post by Patrick Bateman » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:45 pm

howell wrote:
ubersaurusrex wrote: How competitive is the LLM application? 5 slots isn't that many.
I don't know of exact numbers. Each year, we send about 30 people to LLM programs (labor, contracts, cyber, etc.). Each year, there seems to be about a 50% selection rate for the entire pool, but they don't break it down by program. I have known people to not get selected in a given year, but I haven't known someone who made it their intention to get an LLM and not eventually get it. I think you can greatly increase your odds through timing and being liked. The odds are probably a little better for the programs that take 5+ candidates as opposed to a 1- or 2-slot program where you could easily get nosed out.
Howell nailed it in respect to the LLM program. I have a good buddy that got the Cyber LLM and had positive things to say about the program.

Just a few comments to add on for the OP: there are a number of positions at the Major and after level that have a "cyber" focus in some sense. We have a dedicated NAF, 24th Air Force, for cyber ops. I've had friends with assignments to NSA General Counsel and USCYBERCOM. Depending how broadly we are defining cyber, there is the whole Air Force Space Command side of the house which can have some equities in that world.

Howell's caution about the rotation between specialty jobs like a dedicated cyber billet and then getting "re-blued" in a traditional leadership job is important to note. That is just the way of the JAG Corps. It is also the path to promotion - SJAs get promoted, specialists usually do not.

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Re: Military Law

Post by Patrick Bateman » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:During in-processing, did anyone have to get their wisdom teeth removed?
What?

Like at MEPS? The most involved it is going to get there is the ol' bend & spread for a 70 year old contractor MD.

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Re: Military Law

Post by ubersaurusrex » Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:44 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
howell wrote:
ubersaurusrex wrote: How competitive is the LLM application? 5 slots isn't that many.
I don't know of exact numbers. Each year, we send about 30 people to LLM programs (labor, contracts, cyber, etc.). Each year, there seems to be about a 50% selection rate for the entire pool, but they don't break it down by program. I have known people to not get selected in a given year, but I haven't known someone who made it their intention to get an LLM and not eventually get it. I think you can greatly increase your odds through timing and being liked. The odds are probably a little better for the programs that take 5+ candidates as opposed to a 1- or 2-slot program where you could easily get nosed out.
Howell nailed it in respect to the LLM program. I have a good buddy that got the Cyber LLM and had positive things to say about the program.

Just a few comments to add on for the OP: there are a number of positions at the Major and after level that have a "cyber" focus in some sense. We have a dedicated NAF, 24th Air Force, for cyber ops. I've had friends with assignments to NSA General Counsel and USCYBERCOM. Depending how broadly we are defining cyber, there is the whole Air Force Space Command side of the house which can have some equities in that world.

Howell's caution about the rotation between specialty jobs like a dedicated cyber billet and then getting "re-blued" in a traditional leadership job is important to note. That is just the way of the JAG Corps. It is also the path to promotion - SJAs get promoted, specialists usually do not.
That's about what I expected and is certainly not a deal breaker. Anyone have a Navy perspective to add?

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:43 am

Patrick Bateman wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:During in-processing, did anyone have to get their wisdom teeth removed?
What?

Like at MEPS? The most involved it is going to get there is the ol' bend & spread for a 70 year old contractor MD.
When you first go through COT for example--won't JAs typically have to do medical and dental processing when you first show up for training (long after clearing MEPS)? I've heard that on the enlisted side, when people go through basic, some have to get their wisdom teeth pulled, albeit with 3 days SIQ leave. That is terrifying.

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Re: Military Law

Post by ubersaurusrex » Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:During in-processing, did anyone have to get their wisdom teeth removed?
What?

Like at MEPS? The most involved it is going to get there is the ol' bend & spread for a 70 year old contractor MD.
When you first go through COT for example--won't JAs typically have to do medical and dental processing when you first show up for training (long after clearing MEPS)? I've heard that on the enlisted side, when people go through basic, some have to get their wisdom teeth pulled, albeit with 3 days SIQ leave. That is terrifying.
It is normal in bootcamp, at least for the Marines, to get your wisdom teeth pulled. They don't want them to become an issue in the middle of a deployment where getting you to an oral surgeon would be a challenge. I have no idea if that's true in other branches or for officers.

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Re: Military Law

Post by Elle in Combat Boots » Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:26 pm

ubersaurusrex wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:During in-processing, did anyone have to get their wisdom teeth removed?
What?

Like at MEPS? The most involved it is going to get there is the ol' bend & spread for a 70 year old contractor MD.
When you first go through COT for example--won't JAs typically have to do medical and dental processing when you first show up for training (long after clearing MEPS)? I've heard that on the enlisted side, when people go through basic, some have to get their wisdom teeth pulled, albeit with 3 days SIQ leave. That is terrifying.
It is normal in bootcamp, at least for the Marines, to get your wisdom teeth pulled. They don't want them to become an issue in the middle of a deployment where getting you to an oral surgeon would be a challenge. I have no idea if that's true in other branches or for officers.
I knew two people in my ODS (Navy) class that got their wisdom teeth pulled while there. Seemed to be a normal occurrence.

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Re: Military Law

Post by Patrick Bateman » Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:31 pm

Elle in Combat Boots wrote:
ubersaurusrex wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:During in-processing, did anyone have to get their wisdom teeth removed?
What?

Like at MEPS? The most involved it is going to get there is the ol' bend & spread for a 70 year old contractor MD.
When you first go through COT for example--won't JAs typically have to do medical and dental processing when you first show up for training (long after clearing MEPS)? I've heard that on the enlisted side, when people go through basic, some have to get their wisdom teeth pulled, albeit with 3 days SIQ leave. That is terrifying.
It is normal in bootcamp, at least for the Marines, to get your wisdom teeth pulled. They don't want them to become an issue in the middle of a deployment where getting you to an oral surgeon would be a challenge. I have no idea if that's true in other branches or for officers.
I knew two people in my ODS (Navy) class that got their wisdom teeth pulled while there. Seemed to be a normal occurrence.
Interesting. I stand corrected!

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Re: Military Law

Post by LawDaug » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:09 pm

Legaleagle21 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just got the good news call from my SJA, so it looks like selection notifications for GLP and OYCP have begun. Good luck to everyone in the running!
Same. I got an acceptance GLP call today as well.
Just got the call from my SJA. I’m in as well!!
Fellow GLPers, I'd be interested to hear how it's been interacting with your local ROTC detachment and what your plans are for managing the ROTC course load next year. Also is anyone considering trying to cram in field training this summer?

For me, I'm working out how I can integrate 3 ROTC courses into my law school schedule without dramatically increasing my workload. I figure I can petition the law school to accept those ROTC course credit hours towards my JD graduation requirement.

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Re: Military Law

Post by usn26 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:58 pm

Elle in Combat Boots wrote:
ubersaurusrex wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:During in-processing, did anyone have to get their wisdom teeth removed?
What?

Like at MEPS? The most involved it is going to get there is the ol' bend & spread for a 70 year old contractor MD.
When you first go through COT for example--won't JAs typically have to do medical and dental processing when you first show up for training (long after clearing MEPS)? I've heard that on the enlisted side, when people go through basic, some have to get their wisdom teeth pulled, albeit with 3 days SIQ leave. That is terrifying.
It is normal in bootcamp, at least for the Marines, to get your wisdom teeth pulled. They don't want them to become an issue in the middle of a deployment where getting you to an oral surgeon would be a challenge. I have no idea if that's true in other branches or for officers.
I knew two people in my ODS (Navy) class that got their wisdom teeth pulled while there. Seemed to be a normal occurrence.
I was briefly a duty van driver in Newport and of my jobs was driving OC's loopy on painkillers back to OTCN after they got their wisdom teeth pulled. I assume it's standard practice in the Navy.

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:54 pm

LawDaug wrote:
Legaleagle21 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just got the good news call from my SJA, so it looks like selection notifications for GLP and OYCP have begun. Good luck to everyone in the running!
Same. I got an acceptance GLP call today as well.
Just got the call from my SJA. I’m in as well!!
Fellow GLPers, I'd be interested to hear how it's been interacting with your local ROTC detachment and what your plans are for managing the ROTC course load next year. Also is anyone considering trying to cram in field training this summer?

For me, I'm working out how I can integrate 3 ROTC courses into my law school schedule without dramatically increasing my workload. I figure I can petition the law school to accept those ROTC course credit hours towards my JD graduation requirement.
I highly doubt any law school will count ROTC courses towards a graduate degree. They are bachelor courses at best. To be honest a plan should have been in place well before selection. As someone whose application was denied, I had in place, a schedule that was approved by my law school in coordination with my detachment, well before my application was even submitted.

I hope that you are able to figure out your situation, but this should have been considered well before you applied. I wish you success in your endeavor, but also i hope that you recognize your approval was in the place of many that were extremely prepared. In my case to such an extent that i had to plan my daycare schedule 2 years out. Please do not take your acceptance lightly and recognize that you have been given something that many tried to achieve and were denied. I would kill to be in your position. To see you hoping to petition a university to recognize your extracurricular for credits deminishes the entire program and jds in general.

Sorry if my response comes of as harsh, that is not my intention. Plainly speaking any Bachelor level course should not be considered for a jd. I believe the aba would strictly be against such a program given the content taught in ROTC courses as related to law.

P.s. yes i am dismayed by my denial, i had a lot riding on an acceptance. However, Your immaturity in recognizing the gravity of the program you applied to, surprises me greatly.

Cheers and best of luck

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Re: Military Law

Post by howell » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:38 am

LawDaug wrote: Fellow GLPers, I'd be interested to hear how it's been interacting with your local ROTC detachment and what your plans are for managing the ROTC course load next year. Also is anyone considering trying to cram in field training this summer?

For me, I'm working out how I can integrate 3 ROTC courses into my law school schedule without dramatically increasing my workload. I figure I can petition the law school to accept those ROTC course credit hours towards my JD graduation requirement.
I didn't come in through GLP, but perhaps I can assuage some of your concerns.

Law school gets better. And much better for you in some ways. Right now, you're in the thick of 1L, the most cutthroat time in law school, and you're also figuring out how to succeed in law school classes. You will learn to prepare for classes and exams more efficiently in your next two years. At most schools, the curve becomes gentler as well. Not that you should lower your effort, but your stress might be lower than that of your classmates, because you already have a job lined up and don't have to feel like you're living Lord of the Flies. You also have more control over your schedule and what courses you take.

Perhaps other GLP/OYCP students can say otherwise, but I would be shocked if the ROTC curriculum is anywhere near as difficult as your law school classes. This is just from my limited experience recruiting at ROTC detachments or teaching classes there and from talking to people who have done ROTC.

Most people (should) add extra-curricular activities during their 2L and 3L years - law review, moot court, mock trial, student organizations, intern/externships, jobs, etc. For most people, their plate will look a lot more full those two years. You can view your ROTC requirements as your version of this or part of this.

I don't know what your outside commitments are, and we certainly need work-life balance, but I recommend considering law school your chance to train to be the best lawyer (and now officer) you can be in the future. It's a 3-year time suck, but while you're there, there are a lot of opportunities you can take advantage of. The ROTC requirements will limit some of those opportunities on the lawyer side, but still seek them out as much as you can.

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Re: Military Law

Post by howell » Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:01 am

Anonymous User wrote: I highly doubt any law school will count ROTC courses towards a graduate degree. They are bachelor courses at best. To be honest a plan should have been in place well before selection. As someone whose application was denied, I had in place, a schedule that was approved by my law school in coordination with my detachment, well before my application was even submitted.

I hope that you are able to figure out your situation, but this should have been considered well before you applied. I wish you success in your endeavor, but also i hope that you recognize your approval was in the place of many that were extremely prepared. In my case to such an extent that i had to plan my daycare schedule 2 years out. Please do not take your acceptance lightly and recognize that you have been given something that many tried to achieve and were denied. I would kill to be in your position. To see you hoping to petition a university to recognize your extracurricular for credits deminishes the entire program and jds in general.

Sorry if my response comes of as harsh, that is not my intention. Plainly speaking any Bachelor level course should not be considered for a jd. I believe the aba would strictly be against such a program given the content taught in ROTC courses as related to law.

P.s. yes i am dismayed by my denial, i had a lot riding on an acceptance. However, Your immaturity in recognizing the gravity of the program you applied to, surprises me greatly.

Cheers and best of luck
As someone who was denied twice before getting accepted, I understand how it can feel to get denied - especially if you were incredibly prepared. So I'm sorry you're going through that.


Something I'd like to point out (primarily for those wishing to apply in the future): GLP/OYCP can be a bit of a crap shoot for any one candidate. As can any given DAP board. For all boards, you can do a lot to increase your chances. And you can greatly increase your odds of getting in eventually by putting in the work. But any one board could have 1,000 things not go your way.

As someone who has conducted accessions interviews, GLP/OYCP interviews are tough, especially GLP. There is so little to go on in most cases. I initially thought I would only strongly recommend those with prior military experience, but I did push for a candidate with no military experience one time (and that candidate was selected). I also never knew how many GLP/OYCP slots they had each year, so the competitiveness could change from year to year. Selection boards likely face dozens of outstanding candidates for just a few slots - they absolutely miss out on stellar candidates each board.

For those who want to be JAGs (at least in the AF), definitely apply to the first board after you've made that decision, but do it with the goal of getting selected eventually if the first time doesn't succeed.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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