Top Law Schools

ALeal90 wrote:Wow. So should I start to gear up for a career in the private sector now? lol. Outside of graduating top ten percent in my class in undergrad with honors, writing a thesis, working on the Obama campaign and serving as the secretary of an advisory board in my local government I don't have much else to offer. I mean I do have few years of general work experience but nothing serious. I imagine those candidates selected for GLP had resumes superior to mine.. Is there anything I can do from now to August 2014 that would help? Maybe join USAF reserves?

Patrick Bateman wrote:

ALeal90 wrote:Wow. So should I start to gear up for a career in the private sector now? lol. Outside of graduating top ten percent in my class in undergrad with honors, writing a thesis, working on the Obama campaign and serving as the secretary of an advisory board in my local government I don't have much else to offer. I mean I do have few years of general work experience but nothing serious. I imagine those candidates selected for GLP had resumes superior to mine.. Is there anything I can do from now to August 2014 that would help? Maybe join USAF reserves?

Your undergrad background is solid and shows some connection/interest in public service. That is good. I cannot hazard any guesses in terms of how competitive you will be for GLP - when you have fewer than five folks selected from a pool of hundreds, there are going to be some arbitrary decisions made. You can make an analogy to an AUSA or fed district clerk position - everyone is smart and well credentialed from the get go. Your stats were solid enough to get you into law school - now the "reset" button gets pushed and you have to distinguish yourself from your new peers, who are all going to be smart and competitive.

Some selected for GLP are prior service, either officer or enlisted. Some were college athletes. Some have other advanced degrees. Some have spent significant time in DOD or other Fed positions as a civilian. Everyone applying for these positions are going to have a great resume, so stop stressing out if your resume is better/worse. Everyone brings something different in respect to strengths/weaknesses.

Stay involved with public service, in whatever form that takes. Ideally, you can get linked up with USAO/local DA or Public Defender as a volunteer, where you can also gain some sense of litigation experience along the way.

Also, start managing your expectations early. It is great that you are proactively working on your GLP application but the odds are against you, and everyone else, for selection. That should not dissuade you - someone is going to be among those three selects, but have a well researched “Plan B” for your 1L summer, along with your OYCP application and Summer Intern application for your 2L. There are a number of folks on this board that went through 4+ application cycles for DAP prior to selection – that is over a year of multiple rejections.

Good luck.

ALeal90 wrote:

Patrick Bateman wrote:

ALeal90 wrote:Wow. So should I start to gear up for a career in the private sector now? lol. Outside of graduating top ten percent in my class in undergrad with honors, writing a thesis, working on the Obama campaign and serving as the secretary of an advisory board in my local government I don't have much else to offer. I mean I do have few years of general work experience but nothing serious. I imagine those candidates selected for GLP had resumes superior to mine.. Is there anything I can do from now to August 2014 that would help? Maybe join USAF reserves?

Your undergrad background is solid and shows some connection/interest in public service. That is good. I cannot hazard any guesses in terms of how competitive you will be for GLP - when you have fewer than five folks selected from a pool of hundreds, there are going to be some arbitrary decisions made. You can make an analogy to an AUSA or fed district clerk position - everyone is smart and well credentialed from the get go. Your stats were solid enough to get you into law school - now the "reset" button gets pushed and you have to distinguish yourself from your new peers, who are all going to be smart and competitive.

Some selected for GLP are prior service, either officer or enlisted. Some were college athletes. Some have other advanced degrees. Some have spent significant time in DOD or other Fed positions as a civilian. Everyone applying for these positions are going to have a great resume, so stop stressing out if your resume is better/worse. Everyone brings something different in respect to strengths/weaknesses.

Stay involved with public service, in whatever form that takes. Ideally, you can get linked up with USAO/local DA or Public Defender as a volunteer, where you can also gain some sense of litigation experience along the way.

Also, start managing your expectations early. It is great that you are proactively working on your GLP application but the odds are against you, and everyone else, for selection. That should not dissuade you - someone is going to be among those three selects, but have a well researched “Plan B” for your 1L summer, along with your OYCP application and Summer Intern application for your 2L. There are a number of folks on this board that went through 4+ application cycles for DAP prior to selection – that is over a year of multiple rejections.

Good luck.

Thanks Patrick. One more question: if I decide to go to a TTT with no air force or military affiliation am I put at a disadvantage when applying for internships and DAP?

Patrick Bateman wrote:

ALeal90 wrote:

Patrick Bateman wrote:

ALeal90 wrote:Wow. So should I start to gear up for a career in the private sector now? lol. Outside of graduating top ten percent in my class in undergrad with honors, writing a thesis, working on the Obama campaign and serving as the secretary of an advisory board in my local government I don't have much else to offer. I mean I do have few years of general work experience but nothing serious. I imagine those candidates selected for GLP had resumes superior to mine.. Is there anything I can do from now to August 2014 that would help? Maybe join USAF reserves?

Your undergrad background is solid and shows some connection/interest in public service. That is good. I cannot hazard any guesses in terms of how competitive you will be for GLP - when you have fewer than five folks selected from a pool of hundreds, there are going to be some arbitrary decisions made. You can make an analogy to an AUSA or fed district clerk position - everyone is smart and well credentialed from the get go. Your stats were solid enough to get you into law school - now the "reset" button gets pushed and you have to distinguish yourself from your new peers, who are all going to be smart and competitive.

Some selected for GLP are prior service, either officer or enlisted. Some were college athletes. Some have other advanced degrees. Some have spent significant time in DOD or other Fed positions as a civilian. Everyone applying for these positions are going to have a great resume, so stop stressing out if your resume is better/worse. Everyone brings something different in respect to strengths/weaknesses.

Stay involved with public service, in whatever form that takes. Ideally, you can get linked up with USAO/local DA or Public Defender as a volunteer, where you can also gain some sense of litigation experience along the way.

Also, start managing your expectations early. It is great that you are proactively working on your GLP application but the odds are against you, and everyone else, for selection. That should not dissuade you - someone is going to be among those three selects, but have a well researched “Plan B” for your 1L summer, along with your OYCP application and Summer Intern application for your 2L. There are a number of folks on this board that went through 4+ application cycles for DAP prior to selection – that is over a year of multiple rejections.

Good luck.

Thanks Patrick. One more question: if I decide to go to a TTT with no air force or military affiliation am I put at a disadvantage when applying for internships and DAP?

I’m not sure what you mean by Air Force or military affiliation. If you mean proximity to a military installation – no, there is no disadvantage in the direct sense of the term. You will not lose points in selection by attending the Lionel Hutz School of Law which is a six hour drive from the nearest base/fort/camp/station. That said, it is always easier to put together volunteer part-time internships or other opportunities when you are within driving distance.

If you mean affiliation in terms of a “feeder” school that puts a lot of graduates into the various JAG Corps or one that is “pro” military, I’m not aware of any such schools (maybe Texas Tech – I swear half of that faculty are retired JAG Full Birds and GOs). You’ll find a lot of law schools, or at least elements therein, are not terribly fond of the military. I was fortunate to find some incredibly supportive folks in my school’s faculty and administration and an equally amazing LRAP program to boot, but I do not expect that is all too common.

There is no stigma associated with the ol “TTT” status in the JAG Corps. Law school rank has no bearing on selection. I review the selection lists for each board and remain amazed at the diversity of law schools we bring in. It yields great results too – some of the best trial and appellate litigators I have worked with have not come from T-14 or even T1 backgrounds. Once accepted, you’ll sink or swim entirely on your own.

Patrick Bateman wrote:I do not know GLP/OYCP well enough to discuss the specifics but I am fairly certain you are required to drill with a local ROTC detachment throughout. The local ROTC Det Commander has to provide a letter that he/she will take you on – that is included with your application package. Without a ROTC det, you are not doing GLP/OYCP.

They do not have to be a part of the college/university to which your law school is attached – you can attend Lionel Hutz School of Law but work with the Barry Zuckercorn University AFROTC Detachment across town. I worked with a Havard Law guy who had to drill with the MIT AFROTC Det because progressive Harvard did not have/allow any ROTC detachments on campus at the time.

Patrick Bateman wrote:I do not know GLP/OYCP well enough to discuss the specifics but I am fairly certain you are required to drill with a local ROTC detachment throughout. The local ROTC Det Commander has to provide a letter that he/she will take you on – that is included with your application package. Without a ROTC det, you are not doing GLP/OYCP.

They do not have to be a part of the college/university to which your law school is attached – you can attend Lionel Hutz School of Law but work with the Barry Zuckercorn University AFROTC Detachment across town. I worked with a Havard Law guy who had to drill with the MIT AFROTC Det because progressive Harvard did not have/allow any ROTC detachments on campus at the time.

Runner2008 wrote:Also, I posted this on another thread, but I think the 'Military Law' topic would have been more appropriate...

So I have a somewhat unique situation:

I am currently a Foreign Area/Field Artillery Officer in the military. I've just been posted to Marquette University as a ROTC instructor (bizarre chain of events led to this). I have wanted to attend law school for six years and now I have my chance (sort of). I say sort of because I think part-time law + full time job + juggling family commitments would probably not be much fun. Especially because my appointment here is supposed to be a break from the 4 year constant deployment cycle that I just left.

As a university faculty member, I can attend Marquette law part time for free. My faculty appointment is for three years, so if I attend the law school, I would most likely have to finance my last year of law school with the G.I. Bill/Yellow Ribbon program. Attending Marquette law now would DEFINITELY increase my chances for being selected for FLEP/ELP (JAG) as an active duty member as it would decrease the cost to the military by 2/3--they would only have to finance one year of school (although it is by no means a guaranteed)

If I am not selected for FLEP/ELP programs, and stay in the military I will not be able to finish my law degree and will have spent three years at school during which I could have gotten a free Master's degree in International Affairs to further bolster the Foreign Area Officer part of my career. The downside is that, regardless, my advanced degree would be coming from Marquette--a school that is not really well known for law OR political science. If I'm not picked up by FLEP/ELP and decide to get out to finish my law degree, now I'm in this abysmal job market with a degree from a not-great school. The up side is that I would have minimal debt and have the veteran boost for gov.'t jobs.

As much of an honor as its been, I am not excited at all about continuing as a combat arms guy. If I would be selected for FLEP/ELP, I would go from being Artillery/Foreign Area Officer to JAG/Foreign Area Officer.

At the end of the day, I'm making really good money as a 27 year old and love the camaraderie of the military. I do have a wife and dogs to support.

So I'm sort of at a cross roads:

Option 1: Go to Marquette law, hope for FLEP/ELP to finance the last year and have a job as a JAG. If not, waste three years of study for no degree, or get out, finish the one year for the degree, and fight the job market. (least opportunity cost btw).
Option 2: Get a Master's in IR, apply for FLEP/ELP when eligible for full three years benefits. Take the option to get a free masters a degree and quit whining about continuing a combat arms career and where your Master's is coming from--you get to do international shit for christsakes!
Option 3: Get a Master's in _________ for free at Marquette. Apply for FLEP/ELP when eligible for full three years benefits. If not selected, get out, use the ridiculously good benefits of the G.I. Bill (thank you tax payers) to finance law school at the highest ranked school possible. Look for a job. Potentially apply for JAG programs as a grad or another government entity.

Insight and input highly appreciated..

madspcdisease wrote:Some of the entitlement and naivety on this board is pretty amazing.

If many of you guys like the military so much, why don't you enlist and actually contribute something, as opposed to talking about how you can beef up your application by joining intramural sports teams or talking about how mommy and daddy served in the AF.

StevenJ11 wrote:I'm considering the army reserves too. What's the ballpark acceptance rate for the army reserve?

LazinessPerSe wrote:

madspcdisease wrote:Some of the entitlement and naivety on this board is pretty amazing.

If many of you guys like the military so much, why don't you enlist and actually contribute something, as opposed to talking about how you can beef up your application by joining intramural sports teams or talking about how mommy and daddy served in the AF.

Why on earth would anyone interested in JAG ever enlist? Becoming an officer is not a guarantee, let alone a JAG. Furthermore, why on earth would anyone with a college degree ever enlist? It's better to go officer in another community than to go from College/Law degree to E1.

madspcdisease wrote:

LazinessPerSe wrote:

madspcdisease wrote:Some of the entitlement and naivety on this board is pretty amazing.

If many of you guys like the military so much, why don't you enlist and actually contribute something, as opposed to talking about how you can beef up your application by joining intramural sports teams or talking about how mommy and daddy served in the AF.

Why on earth would anyone interested in JAG ever enlist? Becoming an officer is not a guarantee, let alone a JAG. Furthermore, why on earth would anyone with a college degree ever enlist? It's better to go officer in another community than to go from College/Law degree to E1.

Why would you enlist? Maybe because America has been at war for over a decade and most of the NCOs you will serve with have already been deployed multiple times. Unless you are a natural leader and prove to be a squared away lieutenant, it is very difficult (armed with just a college degree) to lead a combat platoon without deployment experience. The first thing you learn when joining the Army is that your college degree is worthless. Nobody gives a crap. What I see on this board is a lot of people, with zero military experience, acting like they're entitled to be in JAG or be an officer when they have no proven experience or commitment to the Army. I enlisted because I wanted to learn the ropes, serve my country, and get money for school. If your motives are crappy, they will be flushed out once you join.