Military Law Forum

[Rotor]

(fiance nixed the Army idea).

Out of curiosity, why's that?

Have you ever watched an episode of Army Wives? Thankfully that trash is coming to an end.

[JCFindley]

(fiance nixed the Army idea).

Out of curiosity, why's that?

Have you ever watched an episode of Army Wives? Thankfully that trash is coming to an end.

Of ALL the shows my wife forces me to watch at times, that one is actually the best. I would say it isn't all that far off except where are all the really large less than pretty ones?

[Kobe_Teeth]

(fiance nixed the Army idea).

Out of curiosity, why's that?

My guess: She is more worried about him getting shot in the Army than Navy/AF. I got $2 on it.

Sorry for the delay everyone. There is a perceived extra level of danger, you are correct. Pretty much it comes down to I already changed life plans on her going to law school and if I make JAG that will happen all over again, so she'd just prefer I minimize danger. I said ok.

[JCFindley]

(fiance nixed the Army idea).

Out of curiosity, why's that?

My guess: She is more worried about him getting shot in the Army than Navy/AF. I got $2 on it.

Sorry for the delay everyone. There is a perceived extra level of danger, you are correct. Pretty much it comes down to I already changed life plans on her going to law school and if I make JAG that will happen all over again, so she'd just prefer I minimize danger. I said ok.

Yo, Spleen, do you take paypal?

(Happy wife and happy life and all that stuff. Smart choice Kobe.)

[spleenworship]

My guess: She is more worried about him getting shot in the Army than Navy/AF. I got $2 on it.

Sorry for the delay everyone. There is a perceived extra level of danger, you are correct. Pretty much it comes down to I already changed life plans on her going to law school and if I make JAG that will happen all over again, so she'd just prefer I minimize danger. I said ok.

Yo, Spleen, do you take paypal?

(Happy wife and happy life and all that stuff. Smart choice Kobe.)

No. Buy me a PBR next time you're in town.

Agree with the happy wife/life sentiment. That's why I agreed to only try out for NG. If I deny wifey med school because we have to move all the time (in the incredibly unlikely event I am selected and waivered) I would need to spend my huge O-2 paycheck on a divorce atty.

[azsxd13]

Please forgive me if this has been discussed, but 133 pages is kind of a lot to serach through:

I am very interested in becoming Air Force Jag. I am out of law school and been practicing for about 4.5 years as a civilian, but am tired and would really like to join. I've tried to contact numerous recruiters at no avail. I also applied few times on usajobs.com. I recently been notified for on that I am eligible and forwarded to the selecting official. Really not sure what to do here as I am very new to all of these. Any advice that you might give me re: getting into the JAG program? Thanks a lot.

[leedleed]

Please forgive me if this has been discussed, but 133 pages is kind of a lot to serach through:

I am very interested in becoming Air Force Jag. I am out of law school and been practicing for about 4.5 years as a civilian, but am tired and would really like to join. I've tried to contact numerous recruiters at no avail. I also applied few times on usajobs.com. I recently been notified for on that I am eligible and forwarded to the selecting official. Really not sure what to do here as I am very new to all of these. Any advice that you might give me re: getting into the JAG program? Thanks a lot.

Go to AF JAG website (--LinkRemoved--), fill out a DAP application, schedule an interview with the Staff JA at your nearest AF base, and wait for the Board selections.

[Jredelman15]

Currently a 0L applying to law school next month. Can someone speak to the exit options for JAG? I am concerned with government, biglaw, and politics. If it is possible can you speak about what big government jobs are likely after JAG, any anecdotal is also appreciated. My grandfather was a Lt. Colonel in the Marines would this help?

[Patrick Bateman]

Please forgive me if this has been discussed, but 133 pages is kind of a lot to serach through:

I am very interested in becoming Air Force Jag. I am out of law school and been practicing for about 4.5 years as a civilian, but am tired and would really like to join. I've tried to contact numerous recruiters at no avail. I also applied few times on usajobs.com. I recently been notified for on that I am eligible and forwarded to the selecting official. Really not sure what to do here as I am very new to all of these. Any advice that you might give me re: getting into the JAG program? Thanks a lot.

In regarding to getting into JAG: that will require you to dive into the 133 pages of this thread. No better repository of advice in the world on this subject than here, albeit not in the most convenient format. You will also see numerous times that there are no “recruiters” for AF JAG – there is a recruiting OIC and other accessions staff at JAX that you can contact at the 1-800 number.

I am not at all clear what program you have been applying for through USAJOBS. That is a civilian recruiting site for the Feds and active duty positions are not handled through there (civilian positions within the DOD are on there though).

As mentioned above, the JAG Recruiting page has the application. Once that is complete (this will take some time to put together), you schedule an interview with the Staff Judge Advocate at an Air Force Base. There are three boards a year in which direct appointment applicants can be selected.

[Scotusnerd]

Question. I spoke to an army JAG recruiter the other day and they said that the 1L internship is gone for now. It's still up on their website though. Is the Air Force 1L summer internship still up for grabs?

[JCFindley]

In regarding to getting into JAG: that will require you to dive into the 133 pages of this thread. No better repository of advice in the world on this subject than here, albeit not in the most convenient format. You will also see numerous times that there are no “recruiters” for AF JAG – there is a recruiting OIC and other accessions staff at JAX that you can contact at the 1-800 number.

I am not at all clear what program you have been applying for through USAJOBS. That is a civilian recruiting site for the Feds and active duty positions are not handled through there (civilian positions within the DOD are on there though).

As mentioned above, the JAG Recruiting page has the application. Once that is complete (this will take some time to put together), you schedule an interview with the Staff Judge Advocate at an Air Force Base. There are three boards a year in which direct appointment applicants can be selected.

Sort of but there are exceptions. The Guard and Reserve have what are called technician slots. They are full timers in the NG or Reserve but not on active orders except when on active orders. (Makes perfect sense, right?) Anyway, they are considered full time GS positions that are paid on a GS pay scale except on drill status or when deployed and they do advertise on USAJOBS so there may actually be JAG jobs there. You will never get a job that way mind you as they tend to hire people they know so you almost have to "pledge" the unit and show up drill weekends and get to know people there or get to know them better if you all ready do.

[Esquire]

Please forgive me if this has been discussed, but 133 pages is kind of a lot to serach through

Of course your question has been discussed in 133 pages. The info is out there. You're here for the information so go get it.

(fiance nixed the Army idea).

Out of curiosity, why's that?

My guess: She is more worried about him getting shot in the Army than Navy/AF. I got $2 on it.

Sorry for the delay everyone. There is a perceived extra level of danger, you are correct. Pretty much it comes down to I already changed life plans on her going to law school and if I make JAG that will happen all over again, so she'd just prefer I minimize danger. I said ok.

True enough. I actually decided Army because of the adventure. I have a buddy in AF JAG and his life is a lot more civilian than mine. Typically caveats and all that apply.

[BruceWayne]

How are bar exam fees etc. handled for those who go the DAP route for AF?

[howell]

How are bar exam fees etc. handled for those who go the DAP route for AF?

DAP selects will already be admitted to a bar as a practicing attorney or will come in as a recent law graduate. As a recent graduate, you will pay to take the bar exam by yourself (no help from the Air Force). I cannot directly speak to how bar dues, CLEs, and other professional costs are handled, but I would assume they are covered for the time after you have commissioned. It would be good to know for certain, so perhaps someone else here can help out with that.

[Patrick Bateman]

How are bar exam fees etc. handled for those who go the DAP route for AF?

DAP selects will already be admitted to a bar as a practicing attorney or will come in as a recent law graduate. As a recent graduate, you will pay to take the bar exam by yourself (no help from the Air Force). I cannot directly speak to how bar dues, CLEs, and other professional costs are handled, but I would assume they are covered for the time after you have commissioned. It would be good to know for certain, so perhaps someone else here can help out with that.

Bar/Bri, bar exam fees, and everything else before your commission is on your own dime.

Once you are on active duty, annual bar dues are covered/subsidized by the AF. My state, Illinois, waives annual bar dues for active duty, so that is something you all need to look into. If you are in a state that does not waive the dues, the AF will reimburse costs up to a set max amount - this is sufficient for all but a few states; I think NY and one other state were so expensive that the person still had to come out of pocket to cover the difference.

You will earn more free CLE through JAG School classes and webcasts than you will ever need. I’ve never heard of someone needing to pay for CLE to meet their state’s requirements. Also, a lot of states will waive CLE for active duty.

The AF does not cover anything else. That said, every professional legal association of which I am a part waived the fee requirement once I explained/documented I was JAG.

[Fed_Atty]

How are bar exam fees etc. handled for those who go the DAP route for AF?

DAP selects will already be admitted to a bar as a practicing attorney or will come in as a recent law graduate. As a recent graduate, you will pay to take the bar exam by yourself (no help from the Air Force). I cannot directly speak to how bar dues, CLEs, and other professional costs are handled, but I would assume they are covered for the time after you have commissioned. It would be good to know for certain, so perhaps someone else here can help out with that.

Bar/Bri, bar exam fees, and everything else before your commission is on your own dime.

Once you are on active duty, annual bar dues are covered/subsidized by the AF. My state, Illinois, waives annual bar dues for active duty, so that is something you all need to look into. If you are in a state that does not waive the dues, the AF will reimburse costs up to a set max amount - this is sufficient for all but a few states; I think NY and one other state were so expensive that the person still had to come out of pocket to cover the difference.

You will earn more free CLE through JAG School classes and webcasts than you will ever need. I’ve never heard of someone needing to pay for CLE to meet their state’s requirements. Also, a lot of states will waive CLE for active duty.

The AF does not cover anything else. That said, every professional legal association of which I am a part waived the fee requirement once I explained/documented I was JAG.

Pretty much the same deal as the Navy - however - I do not think we help out with bar dues (I am IL as well, so it is not an issue).

[BruceWayne]

How are bar exam fees etc. handled for those who go the DAP route for AF?

DAP selects will already be admitted to a bar as a practicing attorney or will come in as a recent law graduate. As a recent graduate, you will pay to take the bar exam by yourself (no help from the Air Force). I cannot directly speak to how bar dues, CLEs, and other professional costs are handled, but I would assume they are covered for the time after you have commissioned. It would be good to know for certain, so perhaps someone else here can help out with that.

So you aren't officially accepted until after you pass the bar? What happens after you apply fall of your 3L year up until bar results? Do you just not hear anything?

[Patrick Bateman]

How are bar exam fees etc. handled for those who go the DAP route for AF?

DAP selects will already be admitted to a bar as a practicing attorney or will come in as a recent law graduate. As a recent graduate, you will pay to take the bar exam by yourself (no help from the Air Force). I cannot directly speak to how bar dues, CLEs, and other professional costs are handled, but I would assume they are covered for the time after you have commissioned. It would be good to know for certain, so perhaps someone else here can help out with that.

So you aren't officially accepted until after you pass the bar? What happens after you apply fall of your 3L year up until bar results? Do you just not hear anything?

Correct. You are conditionally accepted pending successful bar passage. You will not take the oath, get orders, or have a projected base assignment until you confirm you pass the bar with JAX.

You will be in communication with JAX b/t selection as a 3L and your bar passage the following fall but nothing official starts moving until you can tack "Esq" to your name.

[BruceWayne]

Correct. You are conditionally accepted pending successful bar passage. You will not take the oath, get orders, or have a projected base assignment until you confirm you pass the bar with JAX.

You will be in communication with JAX b/t selection as a 3L and your bar passage the following fall but nothing official starts moving until you can tack "Esq" to your name.

Thanks.

[LazinessPerSe]

I submitted my Navy JAG application for the October board earlier last week. My interview is scheduled two weeks from now. I have the luxury of having a great source for prepping for this interview - my father retired in 2011 as a LCDR Nuke after 20+ years. However, I'm a bit uncertain about how my answers would come across. All of these reasons are 100% true and not contrived or bullshitted at all.

When asked "Why Navy?", I'm a bit gung-ho about it. Family tradition, duty to country, feeling I owe the Navy a debt for my lifestyle/opportunities. I also benefit from Navy JAG being the reason why I went to law school. If I don't get JAG, I'll likely end up applying for Navy Intelligence after law school. Should I mention I 1L SA'd with a Fortune 300 and didn't love corporate law like I love criminal / civil litigation?

When asked "Display of leadership" (or something like it), I have experiences to draw on from being a Captain on my College's soccer team / dealing with an individual with a gun as a supervisor at work (it wasn't life threatening - just his mishap) / various situations I dealt with as a college RA. Is there any particular one that is best suited for a JAG interview?

When asked "Strength/weakness", I hate the mentality of giving a weakness and then spinning it to sound like a strength. It defeats the purpose of the question. I can narrow both down to really being honest to a point of bluntness. It's a strength to be reliably honest. It's a weakness to often lack the foresight or tact to rephrase/tailor an answer to each situation. Obviously I can give examples. Any opinions here? Is it a solid enough premise or are they looking for things more tailored towards military service such as ability to follow orders, etc.

[Fed_Atty]

I submitted my Navy JAG application for the October board earlier last week. My interview is scheduled two weeks from now. I have the luxury of having a great source for prepping for this interview - my father retired in 2011 as a LCDR Nuke after 20+ years. However, I'm a bit uncertain about how my answers would come across. All of these reasons are 100% true and not contrived or bullshitted at all.

When asked "Why Navy?", I'm a bit gung-ho about it. Family tradition, duty to country, feeling I owe the Navy a debt for my lifestyle/opportunities. I also benefit from Navy JAG being the reason why I went to law school. If I don't get JAG, I'll likely end up applying for Navy Intelligence after law school. Should I mention I 1L SA'd with a Fortune 300 and didn't love corporate law like I love criminal / civil litigation?

When asked "Display of leadership" (or something like it), I have experiences to draw on from being a Captain on my College's soccer team / dealing with an individual with a gun as a supervisor at work (it wasn't life threatening - just his mishap) / various situations I dealt with as a college RA. Is there any particular one that is best suited for a JAG interview?

When asked "Strength/weakness", I hate the mentality of giving a weakness and then spinning it to sound like a strength. It defeats the purpose of the question. I can narrow both down to really being honest to a point of bluntness. It's a strength to be reliably honest. It's a weakness to often lack the foresight or tact to rephrase/tailor an answer to each situation. Obviously I can give examples. Any opinions here? Is it a solid enough premise or are they looking for things more tailored towards military service such as ability to follow orders, etc.

For the Navy - you will have a structured interview. Every single candidate is asked the same series of questions and scored based on the result. It is completely different from a normal interview. Without divulging too much, you will be given a number of scenarios and have to develop solutions to problems.

There will be some time at the end for an informal discussion - but at that point the interview is essentially over.

[newbie_05]

I am very new to it. I've been reading the thread and it is great. A lot of great info!. Thank you everyone. I was looking at the application directions for AF JAGs on their website. Do have few questions.

1) Form 24 is only if you are applying for a position in reserve? Not clear.

2) Before mailing my application to a provided address, I have to take it to an interview with me and then mail it there?

I am 1L law student and am trying to get enough info. Thanks everyone!

[howell]

I am very new to it. I've been reading the thread and it is great. A lot of great info!. Thank you everyone. I was looking at the application directions for AF JAGs on their website. Do have few questions.

I will assume this is for the GLP. Let us know if it is not.

1) Form 24 is only if you are applying for a position in reserve? Not clear.

No, not only for reserve. You need to fill this out. The language confuses me too, but fill it out.

2) Before mailing my application to a provided address, I have to take it to an interview with me and then mail it there?

You will not mail it. You will take your application package to the SJA interview, and the SJA will forward it on to JAX. The letters of recommendation instructions list an address, but that's more for the recommender to use when including the address of the recipient in the letter itself. Normally, you will bring all letters of recommendation to the interview with you.

If you haven't, subscribe to the U.S. Air Force JAG Recruiting Facebook page. They're very helpful there.

[LazinessPerSe]

In the effort of trying to cover all bases - can anyone speak right now about the hiring rates of non-JAG USN Officers? i.e. Is a back-up plan of using a law degree as an advanced degree for application to Navy Intelligence or Supply a good alternative in this current lean-military time?

(Assuming the status quo here - not going to get into the possibility of Navy spending and expansion going nuts with a new president).

[Fed_Atty]

In the effort of trying to cover all bases - can anyone speak right now about the hiring rates of non-JAG USN Officers? i.e. Is a back-up plan of using a law degree as an advanced degree for application to Navy Intelligence or Supply a good alternative in this current lean-military time?

(Assuming the status quo here - not going to get into the possibility of Navy spending and expansion going nuts with a new president).

Best bet is to talk to an officer recruiter. The numbers change throughout the month. The Navy is supposedly downsizing officers at this point, but even so there may be communities that are short. What is your undergrad in? Is it a BA or BS?