Military Law Forum

[jkducks]

Got notice yesterday on the internship. Any valuable information on summer internship experiences/advice would be great. I will be an Army 1L and have no previous military experience.

[scrranger11]

If your unit is cool, they will let you take a TDY (temporary duty not charged as leave) to go to airborne school. Some might make you use leave. Get to know your S1 guys. They will sometimes "lose" your leave paperwork if they like you. Then you don't get charged.

The easiest route would be to go army and request airborne. As long as you meet the requirements, there's a good chance you'll get it.

Thanks for the info. I've got my offer with the AF (and was dinged by the Army), so that's why I'm limiting my questions on how I can get my wings while in the AF (note: my bad-- I don't think I was clear about that in my OP).

This one goes out to Bateman, et. al.-- I visited Nellis within the last two years and found the JAGs (and SJA) there to be totally BA. I actually put Nellis as my top CONUS choice because I heard that new JAGs get trial experience quickly and in spades. Also, I already know some people who live in LV, so I wouldn't be completely starting over (though, I think I'd prefer to end up initially in Europe/Tokyo for the additional travelling [and chicks, obv.] experience). Cheers mate, and maybe we'll meet up on the other side.

[JP_Spungo]

Greetings and thanks to everyone for your contributions over the last 42 pages. Apologies in advance for any misuse of acronyms or terminology.

I'm in a different boat than most posters here. I'm a 30 1/2 year-old practicing attorney out of a T20 law school and have been licensed for approaching 5 years now. I clerked for a federal judge after law school, and I have 2 1/2 years of BigLaw experience and 1 year of small firm experience under my belt. I have no military experience, but I want to serve as a JAG in any service branch that will have me, and I'm considering applying not only for direct appointment commission to each such branch, but for reserve and national guard accession, as applicable.

I'm (pretty obviously) at about Step 1 of a very long process. At this preliminary stage, I'm wondering:

(1) What are the downsides (if any) to sending out multiple applications to multiple branches, for active duty and reserve / national guard positions (i.e., could the Army JAG get wind of my Army Reserve or National Guard JAG application and say "this applicant's not serious about us"?)?

(2) What are your opinions on the benefits and drawbacks to applying for / serving in Army or Air Force JAG Reserve or National Guard as opposed to active duty (beyond the differences in service commitment)? Some benefits and drawbacks seem pretty obvious, but I'm wondering, for instance, whether such officers looked down upon as compared to those who receive direct appointments -- I guess its "cultural" benefits and drawbacks I'm referring to here.

(3) Similarly, is an applicant more likely to be accepted for commission with the Army or Air Force JAG Reserve or National Guard, based on availability?

(4) Irrespective of being called up, how difficult is it for someone who is commissioned as an officer in the Reserves or National Guard to become an active duty JAG officer if his or her civilian employment circumstances change?

I appreciate any advice and opinions you may have to offer, whether in direct response to these questions, or more generally about how my application process may differ from that of law students, or regarding who may be in a better position to address my particular circumstances.

[Note: After reading the 42-odd pages on this topic, and doing a lot of online research, I've learned a great deal, and applications for the non-Army service branches seem pretty self-explanatory -- enough to develop a checklist for what needs to be done. Active Duty Army JAG has been different: the points of contact don't have an answer as to how I find a Field Screening Officer (FSO), given that I'm not in law school, and they keep directing me back to the jagcnet.army.mil website's (nonexistent, as far as I can tell) FSO list instead of telling me whom I'm supposed to meet with. If you've got advice on how to break the conundrum, I'd love to hear from you.]

I'm sure my questions will come more fast and furiously once I get some more information.

Thanks again.

[Motion Sickness]

[Note: After reading the 42-odd pages on this topic, and doing a lot of online research, I've learned a great deal, and applications for the non-Army service branches seem pretty self-explanatory -- enough to develop a checklist for what needs to be done. Active Duty Army JAG has been different: the points of contact don't have an answer as to how I find a Field Screening Officer (FSO), given that I'm not in law school, and they keep directing me back to the jagcnet.army.mil website's (nonexistent, as far as I can tell) FSO list instead of telling me whom I'm supposed to meet with. If you've got advice on how to break the conundrum, I'd love to hear from you.]

Find a FSO right here broken down by state: http://www.goarmy.com/jag/find_a_recruiter.jsp

I work full-time as well, but fortunately there are several law schools nearby where I was able to schedule an interview with a visiting recruiter. If you're not near any law schools, just contact the recruiters assigned to your state and see if you can work out an alternative place to meet, otherwise be prepared to take a day off work to travel to the interview.

Not sure what problem you're having in accessing the jagcnet site. Usually a screen comes up saying something like "it's not recommended to continue", and just hit continue to proceed to the site. Maybe try disabling your firewall or pop-up blocker?

Good luck!

[JP_Spungo]

Not sure what problem you're having in accessing the jagcnet site. Usually a screen comes up saying something like "it's not recommended to continue", and just hit continue to proceed to the site. Maybe try disabling your firewall or pop-up blocker?

For some reason, when I click my state at the http://www.goarmy.com/jag/find_a_recruiter.jsp page, I'm simply directed to a JavaScript popup of the jagcnet.army.mil page. No matter; there are some law schools near where I live and I'll get cracking on contacting them. Thanks for the help on that.

Meanwhile, where are you in the application process, Motion Sickness? Did the FSO give you any beat on your chances for direct appointment commission, given that you're a full-time working post-grad vying for the commission in a tight market? Are you only considering active duty Army, or also reserve / national guard and/or commissions with other service branches?

Thanks.

[snake-eater]

I have another random question, how big of a boost (if we want to use the points analogy from earlier) would one receive for knowledge of a language.

Now, just to clarify, I'm not talking Farsi or a language that would be immediately useful in the field. I'm talking a language like Croatian/Serbian/Bosnian.

My thinking is that the Navy (in my case) would want to have a wide variety of languages on hand, because one never knows where the next conflict will come. (Think Kosovo or Bosnia conflicts). Thus, I would get some points for knowing that language, just as someone that speaks say Hindii or Korean would.

I ask because I can take some credits this summer (along with my summer job) and have it count towards my degree. I used to speak Croatian when I was little dijete, but I've lost most of it since then. In a summer language institute I could probably get up back up to high conversational (though admittedly not fluent). Think it would be worth it? Beyond the JAG bonus, it would also be very enriching for me personally as I could then share the language with my son.

Thoughts?

Edit: I just saw that Serbo-Croatian (my language) is a Strategic Stronghold Language. So, I see that I'd be eligible for a bonus with my pay depending on how I test. Of course, that would mean I'd have to make myself available for any and all situations that might call for my language skills. Which is something I'd be willing to do.

Question remains on how much that helps my application.

Unless you get assigned to a unit with MTOE slots receiving FLPP, it serves no real purpose. I would still take the DLPT for whatever language you are proficient at so you can get it placed on your ORB. May help later if a unit such as 10th SFG needs Serbo-Croation.

[the goat]

I don't know if this is an April Fool's Day prank, but the Army's JAG recruiting website is reporting that the results of the latest 1L summer intern and active duty selection boards will be posted tomorrow at noon.

Good luck to everyone who applied.

[Cole S. Law]

I don't know if this is an April Fool's Day prank, but the Army's JAG recruiting website is reporting that the results of the latest 1L summer intern and active duty selection boards will be posted tomorrow at noon.

Good luck to everyone who applied.

The Army isn't very good with jokes. Example of an Army joke: "Welcome home from a 13 month deployment to Iraq. Some guy who's never been in combat has just determined that we need you to get back on the plane and redeploy for another 5 months as part of a surge."

If you're waiting for a punchline, I can assure you there isn't one. Told you they sucked at jokes.

[JR00576]

Do you all think I got dinged from the 1L summer internship because I haven't received a call from anyone yet, or do you think they will just post the internship recipients tomorrow without calling anyone beforehand?

[Motion Sickness]

Meanwhile, where are you in the application process, Motion Sickness? Did the FSO give you any beat on your chances for direct appointment commission, given that you're a full-time working post-grad vying for the commission in a tight market? Are you only considering active duty Army, or also reserve / national guard and/or commissions with other service branches?

Here's an interesting article, although it's a year old. http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1
It states that practicing attorneys typically make up 20% of the applicants accepted to Army JAG. That doesn't sound like such bad odds, so definitely go for it!

I applied to the November 2009 board and was accepted (active duty). When I interviewed, I had been practicing for about a year in litigation. I think what helped the most is that I was genuinely enthusiastic about joining JAG, after doing a lot of research, and that carried across to my FSO. Of course, you don't have to be all hooah gung ho (btw I have no military background and no family in the military and really knew jack about the military beforehand), just show that you're interested and that you've done your research.

[aed9]

Do you all think I got dinged from the 1L summer internship because I haven't received a call from anyone yet, or do you think they will just post the internship recipients tomorrow without calling anyone beforehand?

This is entirely a guess, but I would think the FSOs will contact people who are selected. Otherwise, they would be relying on the fact that people regularly check JAGCNet as notification of internship acceptances. That being said, I think it's also possible FSOs will still contact people later today or even tomorrow morning.

[Esquire]

Do you all think I got dinged from the 1L summer internship because I haven't received a call from anyone yet, or do you think they will just post the internship recipients tomorrow without calling anyone beforehand?

I was a 1L intern last year. I did not get a call from my FSO. I had contact with my FSO after finding out, but not prior to.

Don't be upset if you got dinged from the 1L program. It's pretty tough to get in. Likely tougher this year.

[Undead_Ed]

Spring 2010 Army JAG results dropped today: --LinkRemoved--

I'M IN!!!

[Groundie]

Congrats! I didn't apply to the Army (did Army internship) but am applying to Navy Feb/March/April whatever board and the April AF DAP.

Any reason why you wanted Army over others, or...?

[Undead_Ed]

Congrats! I didn't apply to the Army (did Army internship) but am applying to Navy Feb/March/April whatever board and the April AF DAP.

Any reason why you wanted Army over others, or...?

Well, I actually applied to the AF and the Navy when I heard I wasn't selected for Army the first time. It scared the hell out of me. I have always wanted to be a military lawyer. Army was my first choice because I have been Army for 11 years (both active and reserve). Air Force would also be a very good choice--good lawyers and duty locations I like. I might have taken AF if it came first. The Navy is very unfamiliar to me, though. I didn't think anything would happen with the Navy because it is my understanding that their 3L selection rates are very low. I didn't even apply to the Coast Guard for that reason.

[3milesup]

I didn't make it on the Army's Spring 2010 Board. I'm so disappointed -- I put forth the best application that I could. Now I'm "Monday morning Quarterbacking" tracing over in my mind what it could have been in my application that wasn't good. I mean 119 were selected and 27 alternates. I didn't even make alternate.

I will apply again in November -- 7 mos. away. Any advice?? Should I just re-submit? Do I need/should I obtain another interview?

Thanks.

[Rocky Estoppel]

Spring 2010 Army JAG results dropped today: --LinkRemoved--

I'M IN!!!

Congratulations! I bet you feel on top of the world right now.

I'll be applying starting in the fall. Good luck and don't forget to keep things updated here about Army JAG. There's not too many people in Army JAG on this board and we could use the information.

[aed9]

Spring 2010 Army JAG results dropped today: --LinkRemoved--

I'M IN!!!

Congratulations! Keep us updated on how things are as you go to JAOBC, DCO, etc. Like Rocky said, there seems to be a much stronger USAF/USN presence here, so it'll be really helpful to hear things from an Army perspective.

[Cole S. Law]

Has anyone here investigated the National Guard JAG?

[Eagle]

Hey,

I recently got accepted to Army JAG. While I am pretty much sold on joining, my parents are really apprehensive. Particularly, my dad is concerned about the casualty rate among Army JAGs serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. I am confident it is not very high, but would still appreciate any stats/impressions on this delicate subject. A condition to me serving is getting my parents on board and so I need some info. to win them over.

Thank you for all your helpful comments and Happy Easter!

[Rocky Estoppel]

Hey,

I recently got accepted to Army JAG. While I am pretty much sold on joining, my parents are really apprehensive. Particularly, my dad is concerned about the casualty rate among Army JAGs serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. I am confident it is not very high, but would still appreciate any stats/impressions on this delicate subject. A condition to me serving is getting my parents on board and so I need some info. to win them over.

Thank you for all your helpful comments and Happy Easter!

Don't worry about what your parents think. You are an adult. Make your own decision.

[dgsaudio]

Hey,

I recently got accepted to Army JAG. While I am pretty much sold on joining, my parents are really apprehensive. Particularly, my dad is concerned about the casualty rate among Army JAGs serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. I am confident it is not very high, but would still appreciate any stats/impressions on this delicate subject. A condition to me serving is getting my parents on board and so I need some info. to win them over.

Thank you for all your helpful comments and Happy Easter!

I don't have any hard numbers, but I would guess the casualty rate among Army JAGs is extremely, extremely low. I returned from Afghanistan last year after spending almost a year there. The only actual JAG I came across was one in Bagram, one of the safest places in country. Most JAGs would be there.

In the outlying FOBs (forward operating base) where I spent all my time, I don't recall ever seeing a JAG. When people needed simple legal assistance like help with a will or power of attorney, they had to go to Bagram.

The only american lawyer I worked with was one from the State Dept who was helping conduct legal training for rural Afghan attorneys.

[Patrick Bateman]

Hey,

I recently got accepted to Army JAG. While I am pretty much sold on joining, my parents are really apprehensive. Particularly, my dad is concerned about the casualty rate among Army JAGs serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. I am confident it is not very high, but would still appreciate any stats/impressions on this delicate subject. A condition to me serving is getting my parents on board and so I need some info. to win them over.

Thank you for all your helpful comments and Happy Easter!

Don't worry about what your parents think. You are an adult. Make your own decision.

Rocky has the credited response here. You are, or soon will be, a licensed attorney and you have been approved for an officer's commission. We are way beyond permission slips for field trips. Do you plan on getting your parent's permission when your battalion or brigade commander needs legal advice on a critical issue?

[Eagle]

Thanks for your input, dgsaudio!

Bateman and Rocky--all I'm trying to do is get my parents and family to support my decision to join. Once I join, I will be fully committed to do anything and go anywhere.

[aed9]

Actually, two officials for the Army JAG Corps were killed in '03 when a Black Hawk was shot down by enemy fire in Iraq. (http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/stswartworth.htm).

The USAF JAG recruiting site has a great article called "... With Helmet and Flak Vest: Practicing International Law in War Zones." The author is a Brig Gen who has been deployed, and he mentions that bases come under rocket/mortar attack.
(--LinkRemoved--) - at the bottom on the left-hand side.

Bottom line- we're in a war. No one can guarantee you won't be deployed, won't get injured, or won't get killed.