Military Law Forum

[Fed_Atty]

Hey all. Thanks for the wealth of knowledge here. I have a few questions about what happens after you go to officer school before JAG school and then your first tour, esp. w/ the sequestration going on. I'm sorry if it's been discussed already. It's a bit tough to find what I'm specifically looking for under the present circumstances. Having gone through about 50 pages of this topic, I now realize how little I know, and the longevity of this topic is impressive!

I received my recommendation from the Oct. 2012 Navy Board in December. I finally got approval and will be taking the oath next Tuesday. My tentative date for ODS is in November.

1. How/when is your date for NJS determined?

2. How/when is your first tour determined?

3. It seems like b/c of the sequestration people are being deferred. Is that deferral date related to JAG school or officer school or the first tour?

4. Should I be looking for a job to fill in the gap? I originally expected the gap to be less than 6 months and so planned to either volunteer or take care of my father who is disabled, but it seems like maybe I should look for something more long term?

5. When is it too late to back out/what would it take to leave? I'm pretty determined to be a JAG, but my parents are not the most supportive of this career choice and I guess oddly enough this information is what they want for reassurance.

What I'm primarily looking for is information regarding the timeline after taking the oath, especially with the sequestration, so any information you can share would be amazing.

Apologies for being particularly clueless. My life has been rather interesting in very unfortunate ways for the past 10 months and I honestly just put my head down to get stuff down. I'm just now dipping my toes into what JAG entails (outside of the basics) for me and my family. I'm also happy to share my stats and my experiences in applying for JAG if anyone wants to know.

I am not in the accessions office and have no official word on what impact, if any, sequestration is having on the Navy JAG corps. I am a bit puzzled because sequestration only affects civilians, not uniformed personnel. I had not heard of any delays due to sequestration, but I may be ignorant.

Have you talked to the accessions officer? The LCDR will have the most up to date information. Regarding your first duty station, in years past the accessions officer has called each individual and asked where he or she would like to be stationed. Provided there is an opening, the AO will do the best to accomodate you. You should know where you are going prior to starting Naval Justice School. As for "dropping out", once you take your oath you are in and it is much more difficult to get out. Prior to the oath, it is easy.

I cannot answer your other questions and do not want to speculate.

[JuneLSATFail]

I have an interview with an OSO for a Marine JAG internship for the summer of 2014. What kind of questions should I expect and how should I prepare?

[Moves like JAGger]

Is anybody else in the service or scheduled to enter the service absolutely terrified by Hagel's recent comments regarding the FY 2014 sequestration cuts?

http://ivn.us/2013/08/08/military-famil ... s-in-2014/

According to Hagel, “it would create “an extremely severe package of military personnel actions including halting all accessions, ending all permanent change-of-station moves, stopping discretionary bonuses and freezing all promotions.”

Here’s what that means:

Military members wouldn’t be promoted, and those recently promoted may not get paid for their new rank, as there is often a waiting period between assuming rank and being paid for it.
Military families wouldn’t be moving to new duty stations, or those who are leaving the military would be responsible for moving themselves back to their home area.
Certain bonuses would be gone.
A significant reduction in recruiting efforts.
A new round of personnel cuts.
There is talk of permanently closing stateside commissaries, the DoD’s answer to grocery stores, which saves shoppers about 30 percent on average over civilian stores.
Housing allowances are on the table as well, however Congress has to approve any reduction by law.

Is this accurate?

I've since read that Obama has designated military pay exempt from sequestration in 2014. That's a relief. But then I've also read that Housing Allowances (which can account for a huge chunk of our income) *are* being considered for cuts.

As someone who is entering the AF in 2014, I'm scared.

[AFJAGHopeful1988]

Sorry - I know this has been answered at some point - I've read the entire thread, but can't remember the answer and can't find it searching. For air force jag, do you get one interview or do they reinterview you for each board?

[willwash]

Is anybody else in the service or scheduled to enter the service absolutely terrified by Hagel's recent comments regarding the FY 2014 sequestration cuts?

http://ivn.us/2013/08/08/military-famil ... s-in-2014/

According to Hagel, “it would create “an extremely severe package of military personnel actions including halting all accessions, ending all permanent change-of-station moves, stopping discretionary bonuses and freezing all promotions.”

Here’s what that means:

Military members wouldn’t be promoted, and those recently promoted may not get paid for their new rank, as there is often a waiting period between assuming rank and being paid for it.
Military families wouldn’t be moving to new duty stations, or those who are leaving the military would be responsible for moving themselves back to their home area.
Certain bonuses would be gone.
A significant reduction in recruiting efforts.
A new round of personnel cuts.
There is talk of permanently closing stateside commissaries, the DoD’s answer to grocery stores, which saves shoppers about 30 percent on average over civilian stores.
Housing allowances are on the table as well, however Congress has to approve any reduction by law.

Is this accurate?

I've since read that Obama has designated military pay exempt from sequestration in 2014. That's a relief. But then I've also read that Housing Allowances (which can account for a huge chunk of our income) *are* being considered for cuts.

As someone who is entering the AF in 2014, I'm scared.

Umm yes, I'm scheduled for pcs is November which falls under fiscal 2014. Would this mean merely no travel claim/dity move, ie I pay for the move out of pocket, or does it mean my whole next job is all jacked up?

Edit, read the whole article. It just looks like typical navy times style fearmongering.

[catinthewall]

Hey all. Thanks for the wealth of knowledge here. I have a few questions about what happens after you go to officer school before JAG school and then your first tour, esp. w/ the sequestration going on. I'm sorry if it's been discussed already. It's a bit tough to find what I'm specifically looking for under the present circumstances. Having gone through about 50 pages of this topic, I now realize how little I know, and the longevity of this topic is impressive!

I received my recommendation from the Oct. 2012 Navy Board in December. I finally got approval and will be taking the oath next Tuesday. My tentative date for ODS is in November.

1. How/when is your date for NJS determined?

2. How/when is your first tour determined?

3. It seems like b/c of the sequestration people are being deferred. Is that deferral date related to JAG school or officer school or the first tour?

4. Should I be looking for a job to fill in the gap? I originally expected the gap to be less than 6 months and so planned to either volunteer or take care of my father who is disabled, but it seems like maybe I should look for something more long term?

5. When is it too late to back out/what would it take to leave? I'm pretty determined to be a JAG, but my parents are not the most supportive of this career choice and I guess oddly enough this information is what they want for reassurance.

What I'm primarily looking for is information regarding the timeline after taking the oath, especially with the sequestration, so any information you can share would be amazing.

Apologies for being particularly clueless. My life has been rather interesting in very unfortunate ways for the past 10 months and I honestly just put my head down to get stuff down. I'm just now dipping my toes into what JAG entails (outside of the basics) for me and my family. I'm also happy to share my stats and my experiences in applying for JAG if anyone wants to know.

I am not in the accessions office and have no official word on what impact, if any, sequestration is having on the Navy JAG corps. I am a bit puzzled because sequestration only affects civilians, not uniformed personnel. I had not heard of any delays due to sequestration, but I may be ignorant.

Have you talked to the accessions officer? The LCDR will have the most up to date information. Regarding your first duty station, in years past the accessions officer has called each individual and asked where he or she would like to be stationed. Provided there is an opening, the AO will do the best to accomodate you. You should know where you are going prior to starting Naval Justice School. As for "dropping out", once you take your oath you are in and it is much more difficult to get out. Prior to the oath, it is easy.

I cannot answer your other questions and do not want to speculate.

Naval officer here.

Everyone submits a dream sheet for where they want to end up. Those with rank/prior service (LEP, lateral transfers) get first dibs. People with a spouse in the service get priority too. With no prior service, you get last dibs on where you'll go. Say with with me: "Needs of the Navy." They always come first.

You'll class up when they have a spot for you. Welcome to another thing you'll become used to in the military: "Hurry up and wait."

I think you can back out anytime before you take your oath. I wouldn't recommend it. You have a job; that's more than a lot of people. Congrats and welcome to the greatest Navy in the world!

[TheSpanishMain]

Edit, read the whole article. It just looks like typical navy times style fearmongering.

For those of you new to the military, learn to ignore everything the Army/Navy/Marine/Air Force Times tells you. It's complete yellow journalism rumor mill nonsense.

[JAGHopeful15]

How important is work experience in being accepted to a JAG program? I am a part-time student with an anticipated graduation date in 2015. I haven't taken any litigation courses yet (I plan to when I can choose more of my own classes), and I start Evidence next week. I received a B+ in Criminal Law. I'm not involved in moot court since I work full-time and was advised by professors not to unless I quit working. I have worked as a paralegal for almost 10 years in varying legal fields - Family, Criminal, Wills, Trusts and POAs. It would be very difficult for me to quit working full-time. Is moot court a necessity if I want a chance at being accepted?

[Patrick Bateman]

Sorry - I know this has been answered at some point - I've read the entire thread, but can't remember the answer and can't find it searching. For air force jag, do you get one interview or do they reinterview you for each board?

The standard practice has been that one interview is good for two boards. For example, you interview with the SJA for the October board - that interview is good for both October and December. You merely have to request reconsideration for the second board.

I know some folks that have accomplished a second interview for the second board (they felt like the first interview did not go well, etc).

I'm no longer at base legal and am getting old, so any of you young turks out there please correct me if things have changed.

[AFJAGHopeful1988]

Sorry - I know this has been answered at some point - I've read the entire thread, but can't remember the answer and can't find it searching. For air force jag, do you get one interview or do they reinterview you for each board?

The standard practice has been that one interview is good for two boards. For example, you interview with the SJA for the October board - that interview is good for both October and December. You merely have to request reconsideration for the second board.

I know some folks that have accomplished a second interview for the second board (they felt like the first interview did not go well, etc).

I'm no longer at base legal and am getting old, so any of you young turks out there please correct me if things have changed.

Thanks for the response, appreciate it!

[Patrick Bateman]

How important is work experience in being accepted to a JAG program? I am a part-time student with an anticipated graduation date in 2015. I haven't taken any litigation courses yet (I plan to when I can choose more of my own classes), and I start Evidence next week. I received a B+ in Criminal Law. I'm not involved in moot court since I work full-time and was advised by professors not to unless I quit working. I have worked as a paralegal for almost 10 years in varying legal fields - Family, Criminal, Wills, Trusts and POAs. It would be very difficult for me to quit working full-time. Is moot court a necessity if I want a chance at being accepted?

As you may see throughout this thread (and I know it is impossibly long at this point), the services subscribe to the amorphous "full person" concept. So, work experience will be a factor, but no one can really say how much of a factor.

Moot court is always talked about because it involves competitive selection and shows you can meet some cutoffs in respect to writing and oral advocacy. There are JAGs that were not involved with moot court; it can just be a good selling point for those that can get it. From my chair, I can't say the opportunity cost of quitting your job just to pursue moot court would be a great idea - moot court might help your chances but it is no guarantee to getting picked

[Moves like JAGger]

How important is work experience in being accepted to a JAG program? I am a part-time student with an anticipated graduation date in 2015. I haven't taken any litigation courses yet (I plan to when I can choose more of my own classes), and I start Evidence next week. I received a B+ in Criminal Law. I'm not involved in moot court since I work full-time and was advised by professors not to unless I quit working. I have worked as a paralegal for almost 10 years in varying legal fields - Family, Criminal, Wills, Trusts and POAs. It would be very difficult for me to quit working full-time. Is moot court a necessity if I want a chance at being accepted?

FWIW, I was selected on my first board and I did not do moot court, though I was EIC of a secondary journal. I wish I'd done mock trial, however, since it's my ambition to become an area defense counsel and I presently have zero trial experience (unless you count watching the entire George Zimmerman trial). Work experience is definitely considered and being a paralegal strikes me as a huge plus. Be prepared to chronicle your litigation experience in vivid detail. My interviewer read the part of my resume where I said I'd drafted motions for summary judgment. He wanted to know how many and wrote that number down.

[JAGHopeful15]

Thank you for your responses. Yes, I've been trying to read everything I can on this post, but I'm only on page 16 out of 185!

I did receive a response to the email I sent to the chief recruiting attorney about the best way for me to apply as a part-time student. She advised that really the only way I can apply will be through the direct appointment program once I've completed 2/3 of my required credit hours. I'm currently a 3L with only 43 credit hours. Based on what I have read so far, does this limit my chances even more? I thought I read somewhere that JAGs accepted every year through the DAP are only around 5 compared to the 60-70 accepted through the GLP and OYCP.

[spleenworship]

Just found out today I can get an age waiver for AF JAG. Putting my app together now! So excited!

[spleenworship]

On a similar note, both the Army and AF are requesting a score report for my LSAT. AF request for documentation is pretty self explanatory. But I've read the instructions several times for the Army and I'm still not clear exactly which doc they want. Do they want the Item Response Report? Or something different? I already called them the other day with questions about transcripts, so I don't want to be that guy that bugs them all the time with simple questions if I can help it. Anybody know what they want?

[Moves like JAGger]

good luck!

[target]

Just found out today I can get an age waiver for AF JAG. Putting my app together now! So excited!

Did you apply to them last year?

[spleenworship]

Oh yeah, one more thing for anyone reading this interested in USCG DCL:

A few days ago a Chief explained to me that they are no longer doing MEPS first. It was apparently an inefficient process (read "costs money") to send officer candidates to MEPS before they even knew whether or not they would pass the interview. So now their process is a lot more like the other services.

1) Contact enlisted recruiter.
2) Fill out pre-screening form and send to recruiter.
3) If no red flags they'll call and then you take all your materials to the recruiter (resume, essays, application form, transcripts, LORs, etc.)
4) They forward that to the direct commission board and set up an interview with officers for you (at least one of whom is a Judge Advocate).
5) The DCL board will decide if you are alternate or primary for commission
6) Then you go to MEPS and either advance to the background check, or begin the waiver process while they do the background check.
7) Either you receive a commission, or you don't get a waiver or fail the background check and don't get a commission.

[spleenworship]

Just found out today I can get an age waiver for AF JAG. Putting my app together now! So excited!

Did you apply to them last year?

Negative. I'm a 3L so I have to go direct commission.

[Young Marino]

On a similar note, both the Army and AF are requesting a score report for my LSAT. AF request for documentation is pretty self explanatory. But I've read the instructions several times for the Army and I'm still not clear exactly which doc they want. Do they want the Item Response Report? Or something different? I already called them the other day with questions about transcripts, so I don't want to be that guy that bugs them all the time with simple questions if I can help it. Anybody know what they want?

I thought LSAT score for USAF jag had no bearing on selection?

[target]

Just found out today I can get an age waiver for AF JAG. Putting my app together now! So excited!

Did you apply to them last year?

Negative. I'm a 3L so I have to go direct commission.

I see. For some reasons, I thought you applied last year as a 2L. I am gathering my app materials now too, and will call and set up my interview sometime soon. What region are you?

[legalresearch]

What is the age cut off for Marine JAGs?

[spleenworship]

What is the age cut off for Marine JAGs?

I'm not 100% on this, but IIRC it's 29.

[spleenworship]

On a similar note, both the Army and AF are requesting a score report for my LSAT. AF request for documentation is pretty self explanatory. But I've read the instructions several times for the Army and I'm still not clear exactly which doc they want. Do they want the Item Response Report? Or something different? I already called them the other day with questions about transcripts, so I don't want to be that guy that bugs them all the time with simple questions if I can help it. Anybody know what they want?

I thought LSAT score for USAF jag had no bearing on selection?

I don't know about that, but I do know they request your percentile.

[spleenworship]

On a similar note, both the Army and AF are requesting a score report for my LSAT. AF request for documentation is pretty self explanatory. But I've read the instructions several times for the Army and I'm still not clear exactly which doc they want. Do they want the Item Response Report? Or something different? I already called them the other day with questions about transcripts, so I don't want to be that guy that bugs them all the time with simple questions if I can help it. Anybody know what they want?

Before I call them again, anybody have an answer to this re: Army LSAT documentation?