Military Law Forum

(Issue areas, International Law, International Public Interest, Public Service in the private sector, Non-Profits, Public Interest Organizations, Government/ government agencies, employment settings)
Str1genz

New
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:13 pm

Re: Military Law

Post by Str1genz » Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:54 pm

potatomato33 wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:59 am
Hello! I wanted to ask more about Army/Navy JAG regarding law school rankings. I'm applying for Fall 21 and hope to go JAG after graduation. I'm sure the law school ranking matters but can that be offset by GPA and my prior service as an enlisted E5? I'm applying to schools in the Northeast with a median LSAT of 157, so rankings are anywhere from the 80s-120s. Thank you!
In 2018/2019 the median LSAT was 159 for the incoming Navy JAG class, according to the Navy's website. Anecdotally, a lot of the people I know who were professionally recommended for JAG came from schools in that same range of ranked schools that you mentioned.

Ultimately, law school ranking is going to matter a lot less than other factors that demonstrate your leadership, hard work, and commitment.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428122
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:57 pm

For all Army JAG folks entering DCC next month (214th JAOBC), a couple of us enterprising people made a class Facebook page for Q&A and general discussion. We may be a little slow at approving you into the group at first, but it’ll happen.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/275959600706182/

Anonymous User
Posts: 428122
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:19 pm

Hi there. Does anyone have any insight as to how OTS is running during COVID? Just curious - I checked the thread and didn’t find an answer. I was selected for AF JAG, but haven’t received my class date yet for OTS. I figured COVID isn’t going away any time soon. Thanks in advance!

Anonymous User
Posts: 428122
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:01 am

Heads up for anyone applying to AF. Want you to know a few things I learned during my first assignment:

1. The idea you get work/life harmony or balance or whatever you want to call it in the AF JAG corps is not true. You’ll be working 60-80 hour weeks consistently and be pushing 100 during trials. Don’t plan on being able to take lunch or do basic self care appointments during the week.

2. You’ll lose most or all of your cases. We can’t get convictions on sex assaults in most instances and that’s the majority of what you try. Be prepared to work your butt off and then see the dirtbag at the next all-call with a smug smile on his face.

3. Have 5k+ plus in savings when you commission because you’re not getting paid correctly for several months and no one in finance cares.

4. Don’t think you’re working any kind of substantive operational law until you’ve done at least 6 years

5. Don’t expect much mentoring. Outside of the instructors at JASOC (who I think do a solid job). Be willing to learn everything on your own.

6. Get ready to do a lot of data entry and document drafting you’d normally have a law clerk or paralegal do.

7. You’ll 100% feel proud every morning putting on the uniform knowing you’re serving honorably and doing your duty.

Good luck.

LawDaug

New
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:49 pm

Re: Military Law

Post by LawDaug » Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:30 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:01 am
Heads up for anyone applying to AF. Want you to know a few things I learned during my first assignment:

1. The idea you get work/life harmony or balance or whatever you want to call it in the AF JAG corps is not true. You’ll be working 60-80 hour weeks consistently and be pushing 100 during trials. Don’t plan on being able to take lunch or do basic self care appointments during the week.

2. You’ll lose most or all of your cases. We can’t get convictions on sex assaults in most instances and that’s the majority of what you try. Be prepared to work your butt off and then see the dirtbag at the next all-call with a smug smile on his face.

3. Have 5k+ plus in savings when you commission because you’re not getting paid correctly for several months and no one in finance cares.

4. Don’t think you’re working any kind of substantive operational law until you’ve done at least 6 years

5. Don’t expect much mentoring. Outside of the instructors at JASOC (who I think do a solid job). Be willing to learn everything on your own.

6. Get ready to do a lot of data entry and document drafting you’d normally have a law clerk or paralegal do.

7. You’ll 100% feel proud every morning putting on the uniform knowing you’re serving honorably and doing your duty.

Good luck.
Where was your first assignment?

Want to continue reading?

Register now to search topics and post comments!

Absolutely FREE!


nicodivizio

New
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:29 pm

Re: Military Law

Post by nicodivizio » Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:08 am

Hi all,

This is definitely a great thread and all of the information is helpful. I have a question regarding which ROTC program would be better for me to attend during my undergraduate if I wish to be a JAG. I am split between the Air Force and the Army and am not sure which to pick. I know the Army has the ed delay and the Air Force has the GLP and OYCP, but I was wondering what advice I could get here.

User avatar
Patrick Bateman

Silver
Posts: 837
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:41 pm

Re: Military Law

Post by Patrick Bateman » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:29 am

nicodivizio wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:08 am
Hi all,

This is definitely a great thread and all of the information is helpful. I have a question regarding which ROTC program would be better for me to attend during my undergraduate if I wish to be a JAG. I am split between the Air Force and the Army and am not sure which to pick. I know the Army has the ed delay and the Air Force has the GLP and OYCP, but I was wondering what advice I could get here.
Air Force also has Ed Delay for ROTC:

Educational Delay Programs - ROTC cadets in the last year of undergraduate studies who will be commissioned through Air Force ROTC may apply to delay their entry on extended active duty to study law. Applicants in this program are NOT guaranteed positions as Air Force Judge Advocates and must compete for selection both for entry into the program (Ed Delay-In) and for entry into The Judge Advocate General's Corps at the end of the program (Ed Delay-Out). Students must attend an ABA-accredited law school and maintain good academic standing.

https://jagusaf.jag.af.mil/

Make sure you are doing the full research into all of the available programs.

nicodivizio

New
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:29 pm

Re: Military Law

Post by nicodivizio » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:53 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:29 am
nicodivizio wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:08 am
Hi all,

This is definitely a great thread and all of the information is helpful. I have a question regarding which ROTC program would be better for me to attend during my undergraduate if I wish to be a JAG. I am split between the Air Force and the Army and am not sure which to pick. I know the Army has the ed delay and the Air Force has the GLP and OYCP, but I was wondering what advice I could get here.
Air Force also has Ed Delay for ROTC:

Educational Delay Programs - ROTC cadets in the last year of undergraduate studies who will be commissioned through Air Force ROTC may apply to delay their entry on extended active duty to study law. Applicants in this program are NOT guaranteed positions as Air Force Judge Advocates and must compete for selection both for entry into the program (Ed Delay-In) and for entry into The Judge Advocate General's Corps at the end of the program (Ed Delay-Out). Students must attend an ABA-accredited law school and maintain good academic standing.

https://jagusaf.jag.af.mil/

Make sure you are doing the full research into all of the available programs.
Thanks for the reply. I did see that the Air Force has this option as well. Seeming to me like the Air Force is definitely the better route overall.

User avatar
Patrick Bateman

Silver
Posts: 837
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:41 pm

Re: Military Law

Post by Patrick Bateman » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:05 pm

Thought I would weigh in on this with some "been around the block" perspective. While Anon appears to be an extremely salty captain, a rough first assignment can do that to you, and some of the criticisms are valid.
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:01 am
Heads up for anyone applying to AF. Want you to know a few things I learned during my first assignment:

1. The idea you get work/life harmony or balance or whatever you want to call it in the AF JAG corps is not true. You’ll be working 60-80 hour weeks consistently and be pushing 100 during trials. Don’t plan on being able to take lunch or do basic self care appointments during the week.
This is extremely base dependent and not the norm. If you are at a medium/small base that suddenly gets a ton of courts/work, and suddenly 1-2 of captains get deployed, things can indeed get real busy. Or some larger bases like a Nellis, Travis, or Ramstein just have a large workload - but, they also have way more personnel to work it.

If you were honestly working 60-80 hour weeks consistently your SJA should probably be removed. That said, I'm having a very difficult time believing these numbers. I did the base legal thing at two busy ops bases. Then ADC at two different ops bases. I then litigated for Main Justice and a USAO. At no point in that decade did we ever approach 100 hours a week pre-trial. Ever.

So there is either a massive management problem with the office/CTCs, a massive time-management problem with you, and/or some other significant X factors if there is any legitimacy here.
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:01 am
2. You’ll lose most or all of your cases. We can’t get convictions on sex assaults in most instances and that’s the majority of what you try. Be prepared to work your butt off and then see the dirtbag at the next all-call with a smug smile on his face.
Article 120 litigation is a mess and will remain that way for as long as I can see down the road.

And back in my day as a first assignment we were litigating and losing naked UA Art 112a cases. The various JAG Corps take cases to trial that would never see the light of day in a civilian jurisdiction. Nature of the beast.

Trial litigation is not for everyone.
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:01 am
3. Have 5k+ plus in savings when you commission because you’re not getting paid correctly for several months and no one in finance cares.
If you have not been paid in months, it is on you to work the problem with your SJA and the CPTS/CC. Finance sucking is just one of things with military life but anyone with more than a minute of service in learns that you have to be proactive if a voucher is not being worked. You've got a LOS, DSJA, SJA, and the Shirt for WSA that all probably could put in a call on your behalf if you are actually having problems at this magnitude.

Ideal? No. But welcome to the military. BOHICA.
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:01 am
4. Don’t think you’re working any kind of substantive operational law until you’ve done at least 6 years
Yeah, just like every other specialty position in the JAG Corps. First assignments aren't working as ADCs, CTCs, MLCs, or the other specialty jobs either. Would you want a first assignment working the kill chain at the CAOC?

Put in your time and get an ops law LLM if that's what you want to do in the JAG Corps.
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:01 am
5. Don’t expect much mentoring. Outside of the instructors at JASOC (who I think do a solid job). Be willing to learn everything on your own.


Even as a first assignment, you are a licensed attorney and a commissioned officer - we are all big boys and big girls and it is incumbent on us as professionals to hit the ground running, learn the rules of the game, etc. Consider what the learning curve would be in BigLaw or at a busy District Attorney's office.

Despite some disappointing experiences at base legal, when I moved to ADC, my SDC and CSDC were among the best officers and mentors I've ever worked for. I'm still close with them years later. As an ADC traveling around, I interacted with some absolutely wonderful SJAs who really loved their folks, and some that probably should not have been in a leadership job. Cest la vie in the legal profession.
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:01 am
6. Get ready to do a lot of data entry and document drafting you’d normally have a law clerk or paralegal do.
Yeah. And we have O-6s at the Pentagon making PowerPoint decks for the Generals they work for. The military can be different.

And having been at DOJ and a USAO - you are going to be doing a lot of data entry and doc drafting in an environment like that too. Get over it.
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:01 am
7. You’ll 100% feel proud every morning putting on the uniform knowing you’re serving honorably and doing your duty.
Yep.
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:01 am
Good luck.
You too.

Want to continue reading?

Register for access!

Did I mention it was FREE ?


kas8901

New
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:12 pm

Re: Military Law

Post by kas8901 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:26 pm

Looking to apply to fall boards for Navy and haven't done an SI yet. Any word on if they're in person/virtual this summer?

Anonymous User
Posts: 428122
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:02 pm

Has anyone received a call for the Navy's Spring board? They said results would be out by now, but I have not heard anything. Still holding out hope...

avonspee

New
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:41 pm

Re: Military Law

Post by avonspee » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:02 pm
Has anyone received a call for the Navy's Spring board? They said results would be out by now, but I have not heard anything. Still holding out hope...
Nope. Still waiting as well.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428122
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:02 pm
Has anyone received a call for the Navy's Spring board? They said results would be out by now, but I have not heard anything. Still holding out hope...
I haven’t heard anything yet, but usually calls will go out until closer to the end of the work day. They will then send out an email to let you know the results have been posted on the website (per the email I received two weeks ago). Just make sure you’re checking the application website. I remember a few years ago I saw the results come out on the website around 4 PM Eastern time. Good luck!

Register now!

Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.

It's still FREE!


Anonymous User
Posts: 428122
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:02 pm
Has anyone received a call for the Navy's Spring board? They said results would be out by now, but I have not heard anything. Still holding out hope...
I haven't heard anything either. However, I have applied to a bunch of different boards across the different services and am confident I'll never get the call. Best of luck!

Anonymous User
Posts: 428122
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:19 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:02 pm
Has anyone received a call for the Navy's Spring board? They said results would be out by now, but I have not heard anything. Still holding out hope...
I haven’t heard anything yet, but usually calls will go out until closer to the end of the work day. They will then send out an email to let you know the results have been posted on the website (per the email I received two weeks ago). Just make sure you’re checking the application website. I remember a few years ago I saw the results come out on the website around 4 PM Eastern time. Good luck!
"Status: Pending" is seared into my retinas...

Anonymous User
Posts: 428122
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:19 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:02 pm
Has anyone received a call for the Navy's Spring board? They said results would be out by now, but I have not heard anything. Still holding out hope...
I haven’t heard anything yet, but usually calls will go out until closer to the end of the work day. They will then send out an email to let you know the results have been posted on the website (per the email I received two weeks ago). Just make sure you’re checking the application website. I remember a few years ago I saw the results come out on the website around 4 PM Eastern time. Good luck!
"Status: Pending" is seared into my retinas...
Arguably worse than the LSAT... not really, but I'm right there with you.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428122
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:41 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:19 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:02 pm
Has anyone received a call for the Navy's Spring board? They said results would be out by now, but I have not heard anything. Still holding out hope...
I haven’t heard anything yet, but usually calls will go out until closer to the end of the work day. They will then send out an email to let you know the results have been posted on the website (per the email I received two weeks ago). Just make sure you’re checking the application website. I remember a few years ago I saw the results come out on the website around 4 PM Eastern time. Good luck!
"Status: Pending" is seared into my retinas...
Arguably worse than the LSAT... not really, but I'm right there with you.
I just spoke with the LT in the accessions office, and the results haven’t been approved by the JAG yet. However, he expects them early next week. Everyone hang in there, and good luck!

Get unlimited access to all forums and topics

Register now!

I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...


Anonymous User
Posts: 428122
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:12 pm
I just spoke with the LT in the accessions office, and the results haven’t been approved by the JAG yet. However, he expects them early next week. Everyone hang in there, and good luck!
Thank You!

Umyeah

New
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:37 am

Re: Military Law

Post by Umyeah » Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:08 am

Just wanted to wish y'all the best of luck from someone who just left the JAG Corps! (Army) And provide any helpful information if needed.... (Just set my account this website back on because Im preparing for The Florida Bar in July haven't found the thread for that yet but found this one..) LOL

Anonymous User
Posts: 428122
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:09 pm

Umyeah wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:08 am
Just wanted to wish y'all the best of luck from someone who just left the JAG Corps! (Army) And provide any helpful information if needed.... (Just set my account this website back on because Im preparing for The Florida Bar in July haven't found the thread for that yet but found this one..) LOL
Why did you get out? What was your time like? Any regrets leaving?

Umyeah

New
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:37 am

Re: Military Law

Post by Umyeah » Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:56 pm

I got in trouble for committing adultery and decided the negativity from both the punishment and related politics involved suddenly tipped the scale in favor of me getting out.

But it is or can be a great career! If I hadn’t gotten in trouble, I would have likely done it for at least another five years. But it’s not for everyone, it is early mornings and a lot of control over your life but you can really help people and make a difference and I think it’s healthy to a certain extent to stay busy.

Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.

Register now, it's still FREE!


nicodivizio

New
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:29 pm

Re: Military Law

Post by nicodivizio » Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:39 am

Umyeah wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:08 am
Just wanted to wish y'all the best of luck from someone who just left the JAG Corps! (Army) And provide any helpful information if needed.... (Just set my account this website back on because Im preparing for The Florida Bar in July haven't found the thread for that yet but found this one..) LOL
Thanks for the well wishes. I wanted to ask what the deployments were like in your experience. i.e, how often, how long, how taxing, things like that.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428122
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:52 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:12 pm
I just spoke with the LT in the accessions office, and the results haven’t been approved by the JAG yet. However, he expects them early next week. Everyone hang in there, and good luck!
Thank You!
Hi everyone! I just received the call about twenty minutes ago for Navy JAG - I am elated! Good luck to everyone!!

Anonymous User
Posts: 428122
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:48 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:52 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:12 pm
I just spoke with the LT in the accessions office, and the results haven’t been approved by the JAG yet. However, he expects them early next week. Everyone hang in there, and good luck!
Thank You!
Hi everyone! I just received the call about twenty minutes ago for Navy JAG - I am elated! Good luck to everyone!!
Congratulations!!!!

Anonymous User
Posts: 428122
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:54 pm

AF JAG Nov 2020 select here! I'm hoping somebody could answer a couple questions: (1) When are the JASOC dates for 2022? (2) Would it be possible to leave JASOC for a weekend to attend a family wedding?

Thanks in advance!

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


Post Reply Post Anonymous Reply  

Return to “Public Interest & Government”