Military Law Forum

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Anonymous User
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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:35 pm

So, do we know anything about how the army will handle PT tests in 2021, specifically for those going through DCC?

From what I understand, the new defense bill threw the ACFT back in limbo and current administrations of the test are anonymous and for scientific purposes only. Does that mean we will be scored on the APFT at DCC?

elguero

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Re: Military Law

Post by elguero » Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:35 pm
So, do we know anything about how the army will handle PT tests in 2021, specifically for those going through DCC?

From what I understand, the new defense bill threw the ACFT back in limbo and current administrations of the test are anonymous and for scientific purposes only. Does that mean we will be scored on the APFT at DCC?
I'm curious as well. I read an Army Times article about the topic that lead to me having a similar understanding. My impression is APFT will be of record through 2021. That being said, hex bar deadlifts and hand release push-ups have made their way into my workouts.

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:53 pm

elguero wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:38 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:35 pm
So, do we know anything about how the army will handle PT tests in 2021, specifically for those going through DCC?

From what I understand, the new defense bill threw the ACFT back in limbo and current administrations of the test are anonymous and for scientific purposes only. Does that mean we will be scored on the APFT at DCC?
I'm curious as well. I read an Army Times article about the topic that lead to me having a similar understanding. My impression is APFT will be of record through 2021. That being said, hex bar deadlifts and hand release push-ups have made their way into my workouts.
The 213th was told that we would not be taking the APFT, only the ACFT. However, the ACFT will only be recorded to track our progress.

Anonymous User
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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:53 pm
elguero wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:38 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:35 pm
So, do we know anything about how the army will handle PT tests in 2021, specifically for those going through DCC?

From what I understand, the new defense bill threw the ACFT back in limbo and current administrations of the test are anonymous and for scientific purposes only. Does that mean we will be scored on the APFT at DCC?
I'm curious as well. I read an Army Times article about the topic that lead to me having a similar understanding. My impression is APFT will be of record through 2021. That being said, hex bar deadlifts and hand release push-ups have made their way into my workouts.
The 213th was told that we would not be taking the APFT, only the ACFT. However, the ACFT will only be recorded to track our progress.
Seconding this. Basically there is no test of record right now. The APFT has been officially phased out, and the implementation of the ACFT has been suspended by Congress. From what I hear, almost all units are still training for the ACFT but nobody knows when PT tests of record will be reinstated. So as of right now there is no way to "take" or even "fail" a PT test because there technically is no PT test. Best advice would probably be to train for the ACFT because that is what units are using as an unofficial benchmark. And to answer the original question: No, nobody is getting scored on the APFT any time soon.

Shootin

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Re: Military Law

Post by Shootin » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:58 pm

Does anyone know whether the Air Force JAG program's student loan repayment program for $65k applies to private student loans?

Also, does anyone know whether there is a continuation bonus for Marine Corps JAG if you decide to get another contract after the initial service commitment? I found that information about other branches, but did not find it for the Marines. Thank you.

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Post by Patrick Bateman » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:14 pm

Shootin wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:58 pm
Does anyone know whether the Air Force JAG program's student loan repayment program for $65k applies to private student loans?
The ability to do a Google search is invaluable for JAGs of any service.
https://www.myairforcebenefits.us.af.m ... P)?serv=26
Eligible loans:

Existing loans: Loans in existence on a judge advocate’s Extended Active Duty for direct appointees and ROTC graduates, date designated as a judge advocate for Excess Leave Program or effective transfer date for eligible intra-service and inter-service transfers are eligible for loan repayment.

Any loan made, insured, or guaranteed under Part B, Title IV of the Higher Education Act of 1965 ( 20 U.S.C. 1071 et seq)

Any loan made under Part D, the William D. Ford Federal Direct Loan Program ( 20 U.S.C. Chap 28, sub chap IV)

Any loan made under Part E the Federal Perkins Loans ( 20 U.S.C. Chap 28, sub chap IV)

Any loan incurred for educational purposes made by a lender that is:

An agency or instrumentality of a State

A financial or credit institution (including an insurance company) that is subject to examination and supervision by an agency of the United States or any State

A pension fund approved by the Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness for the purposed of this program

A non-profit private entity designated by a State, regulated by such State, and approved by the Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness for the purposes of this program.

Consolidation Loans: Eligible loans that are consolidated or restructured after the eligibility dates may also be eligible for JA-SLRP. Only the eligible judge advocate’s educational loans qualify for repayment under JA-SLRP. If a judge advocate consolidated, or consolidates, their educational loan(s) with another person’s ( e.g., a spouse’s) educational loan(s), only the eligible judge advocate’s portion of the resulting consolidated loan qualifies for repayment under JA-SLRP. The eligible judge advocate must provide documentation that clearly establishes what part of the remaining unpaid principal is attributable to the judge advocate’s educational loans.

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howell

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Re: Military Law

Post by howell » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:52 am

Patrick Bateman wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:14 pm
The ability to do a Google search is invaluable for JAGs of any service.
It's the cornerstone of legal assistance.

mjberry1

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Re: Military Law

Post by mjberry1 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:21 pm

So still no word on Army NG JAG board? Or is it just me?
I reached out to my recruiter first week of December, and he said to cool my jets because sometimes it takes "several months" for the bureau to make these decisions.

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:11 pm

Was anyone else selected for multiple branches and having a hard time deciding which to go through with? I was selected for the Navy and the Army and cannot for the life of me decide. From what it sounds like, the base assignments are better in the Navy but the financial incentives are much better in the Army. Obviously the size of each Corps, and the more narrow focus of the Navy JAG Corps are significant differences as well.

I've read through this entire thread front to back and have talked to plenty of JAGs in both branches about the pros and cons of each. But I'd love to hear from anyone who's in the same boat as me (if any of you are out there!)

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:15 pm

Yes, I would love to hear multiple thoughts on picking between branches. I am trying to decide between multiple branches and having a really hard time.

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Post by Patrick Bateman » Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:15 pm
Yes, I would love to hear multiple thoughts on picking between branches. I am trying to decide between multiple branches and having a really hard time.
These service comparison questions pop up every year. When they are this broad they are basically impossible to answer - it is not like you have someone that served as a JAG for all five branches who can give you an actual comparison. Experiences within a particular service JAGC can vary quite a bit two - if you pick two random USAF JAGs at the 10 year mark, you will get some very different answers on their experiences depending if they ended up in military justice versus say acquisitions/procurement/contracting, have done leadership jobs, have been selected for an advanced degree, have deployed, etc. One size does not fit all.

There have been previous discussions on this thread about how the first four years might go in the Army v. Navy v. USAF. Or how military justice assignments work between the Army v. USAF. Smaller scope questions are far easier to answer. Search the thread for those and it might help - honestly if you are still at the "what branch should I pick" and you have not read this entire thread, you need to.

kas8901

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Re: Military Law

Post by kas8901 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:26 am

I was thinking of applying to Navy JAG but I have one hurtle that may keep me from doing so. My law school GPA is 3.0+ and I'm at a T30 (not that it matters for JAG) on a full ride. The issue is that my undergrad GPA is real garbage. Before I bother going through the process, is this going to preclude me from a position?

CaptainJack6

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Re: Military Law

Post by CaptainJack6 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:12 pm

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this forum over the years. I am a recent college graduate. I have noticed that many law schools have started to accept the GRE in addition to the LSAT. The Navy site mentions that in order to be eligible for the student program, you must have taken the LSAT. In the FAQ section on the site, a question is asked, "What if my school did not require taking the LSAT in order to be accepted?" to which the response was, "Please include a note in the 'Remarks' section of your application explaining the lack of an LSAT score". https://www.jag.navy.mil/careers_/caree ... t.html#lq1

For current JAGs, I am wondering if taking the GRE in lieu of the LSAT will hinder my chances of becoming a judge advocate. I am considering studying for the GRE instead because I have only about a month to study for the test. Thank you!

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Elle in Combat Boots

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Re: Military Law

Post by Elle in Combat Boots » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:18 pm

CaptainJack6 wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:12 pm
Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this forum over the years. I am a recent college graduate. I have noticed that many law schools have started to accept the GRE in addition to the LSAT. The Navy site mentions that in order to be eligible for the student program, you must have taken the LSAT. In the FAQ section on the site, a question is asked, "What if my school did not require taking the LSAT in order to be accepted?" to which the response was, "Please include a note in the 'Remarks' section of your application explaining the lack of an LSAT score". https://www.jag.navy.mil/careers_/caree ... t.html#lq1

For current JAGs, I am wondering if taking the GRE in lieu of the LSAT will hinder my chances of becoming a judge advocate. I am considering studying for the GRE instead because I have only about a month to study for the test. Thank you!
I just confirmed with the Navy JAGC recruiting office that they are accepting GREs and they will update the website accordingly.

CaptainJack6

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Re: Military Law

Post by CaptainJack6 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:02 pm

Elle in Combat Boots wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:18 pm
CaptainJack6 wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:12 pm
Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this forum over the years. I am a recent college graduate. I have noticed that many law schools have started to accept the GRE in addition to the LSAT. The Navy site mentions that in order to be eligible for the student program, you must have taken the LSAT. In the FAQ section on the site, a question is asked, "What if my school did not require taking the LSAT in order to be accepted?" to which the response was, "Please include a note in the 'Remarks' section of your application explaining the lack of an LSAT score". https://www.jag.navy.mil/careers_/caree ... t.html#lq1

For current JAGs, I am wondering if taking the GRE in lieu of the LSAT will hinder my chances of becoming a judge advocate. I am considering studying for the GRE instead because I have only about a month to study for the test. Thank you!
I just confirmed with the Navy JAGC recruiting office that they are accepting GREs and they will update the website accordingly.
Good to know, thank you so much!

ubersaurusrex

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Re: Military Law

Post by ubersaurusrex » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:21 pm

kas8901 wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:26 am
I was thinking of applying to Navy JAG but I have one hurtle that may keep me from doing so. My law school GPA is 3.0+ and I'm at a T30 (not that it matters for JAG) on a full ride. The issue is that my undergrad GPA is real garbage. Before I bother going through the process, is this going to preclude me from a position?
Why would you let strangers on the internet tell you to not to apply for something you're interested pursuing? The Navy doesn't list a minimum GPA for their process, so all anyone is going to be able to tell you here is that it depends on the strength of the rest of your application.

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Bop

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Re: Military Law

Post by Bop » Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:28 am

kas8901 wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:26 am
I was thinking of applying to Navy JAG but I have one hurtle that may keep me from doing so. My law school GPA is 3.0+ and I'm at a T30 (not that it matters for JAG) on a full ride. The issue is that my undergrad GPA is real garbage. Before I bother going through the process, is this going to preclude me from a position?
Can’t speak for Navy, but I got Army on my first attempt with a sub 2.5 undergrad GPA and 3.3 law school GPA at a law school around the rank 75 mark. If you have other shining points on your resume, I wouldn’t let undergrad GPA alone stop you.

During my interview I simply brought it up at the end when she asked for additional comments. I made no excuse for it and conceded that it’s a stain on my resume that I’m not proud of, but that i’ve grown from it (evidenced by my law school GPA) and that my undergrad GPA doesn’t represent my study habits and work ethic I have today.

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Anonymous User
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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:11 pm

What are the security clearance requirements for a new hire? Does everybody need to have a security clearance before they can receive a commission? I have some concerns about my ability to receive one due to my spouse being a foreign citizen. Would this be an issue as I am applying? Would it be an issue after getting informally accepted but before formally getting a commission? Would it be an issue only after having already formally earned the commission? Or would it not be an issue at all?

Anonymous User
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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:11 pm
What are the security clearance requirements for a new hire? Does everybody need to have a security clearance before they can receive a commission? I have some concerns about my ability to receive one due to my spouse being a foreign citizen. Would this be an issue as I am applying? Would it be an issue after getting informally accepted but before formally getting a commission? Would it be an issue only after having already formally earned the commission? Or would it not be an issue at all?
First I want to caveat this to say I am an AD JAG Select, so I don't have all the inside information, but I am prior service and can speak to my prior experience, and what I've observed so far in the Army JAG process.

My understanding is that all JAs will need a secret clearance. Army JAG will require you to fill out the clearance paperwork two months before you go to training, well after you've applied and been selected. I am unsure how quick the turn around is on the secret clearance for JAG selects. Perhaps someone can chime in about whether the clearance, or an interim clearance, is adjudicated ahead of attending training. Either way, it being the case that clearances are investigated and adjudicated after you've been selected, I suppose it is within the realm of possibility that you could be denied a clearance after having been selected.

That being said:

Anecdotally, I had a friend who (himself a naturalized citizen) lived with his girlfriend, a foreign citizen (who incidentally did not have immigration status in the US). Eventually they got married (she eventually got residency). This all happened over a number of years. During this whole time he was able to maintain a top secret (including reinvestigations). I know of other examples along these lines.

My observation has been that top secret investigations are more rigorous than the investigation for the secret.

Your investigation/paperwork might be a little more complicated having a foreign spouse (and other foreign contacts), but by no means is this a deal stopper for a clearance. My guess would be that unless your spouse is involved with something particularly nefarious, probably nothing to worry about.

Happy to be corrected by any current JAs.

Str1genz

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Re: Military Law

Post by Str1genz » Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:32 pm

Any Navy JAG selects still waiting on being connected with their local recruiting office? I haven't heard anything since I sent in my initial information sheet ten days ago.

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Re: Military Law

Post by seanajb » Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:37 pm

Str1genz wrote:
Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:32 pm
Any Navy JAG selects still waiting on being connected with their local recruiting office? I haven't heard anything since I sent in my initial information sheet ten days ago.
I'm still waiting. From what I understand they should be assigning us recruiters soon.

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:31 pm

Just got the call + email accepting me to AF JAG.
Air Force Recruiter wrote: "Congratulations on your selection to the United States Air Force JAG Corps!"

I was unaware that the AF even did off-cycle hiring. 8)

THISISFORREADINGONLY

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Re: Military Law

Post by THISISFORREADINGONLY » Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:31 pm
Just got the call + email accepting me to AF JAG.
Air Force Recruiter wrote: "Congratulations on your selection to the United States Air Force JAG Corps!"

I was unaware that the AF even did off-cycle hiring. 8)
You... what..? Is off-cycle AF recruitment actually a thing?

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Liberal Theory

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Re: Military Law

Post by Liberal Theory » Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:41 pm

Has anyone here gotten into any JAG program/ heard of someone getting into JAG with a law school GPA of 2.9+/-? I'd like for someone to chance me.

I'm a 2L heading into 3L gearing up for applying to Army Reserves/National Guard/ USAF Reserves/ Air Guard/ this coming cycle. I can ace even the Marine fitness test, and I was part of the Civil Air Patrol throughout high school and have an entry-level separation with the AF (got out because I enlisted prior to getting a full-ride undergrad offer). Undergrad GPA of 3.5+ in military history and polisci, with a 160 LSAT and I go to a law school ranked 40-60. I have a summer DA's internship on my resume, 4 years of volunteer experience with the court in undergrad, and I am even in a specialty clinic at my school that caters to veterans. Also maybe externing this summer with one of the branches.

What are my odds of making the cut with these facts in your experience? I had a rough first semester and then when Corona made everything P/F until this recently my GPA has been absolutely jobbed, does anyone here think they will take that into consideration? Any insight appreciated.

Also good luck to all you other JAG applicants out here!

ubersaurusrex

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Re: Military Law

Post by ubersaurusrex » Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:13 am

Liberal Theory wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:41 pm
Has anyone here gotten into any JAG program/ heard of someone getting into JAG with a law school GPA of 2.9+/-? I'd like for someone to chance me.

I'm a 2L heading into 3L gearing up for applying to Army Reserves/National Guard/ USAF Reserves/ Air Guard/ this coming cycle. I can ace even the Marine fitness test, and I was part of the Civil Air Patrol throughout high school and have an entry-level separation with the AF (got out because I enlisted prior to getting a full-ride undergrad offer). Undergrad GPA of 3.5+ in military history and polisci, with a 160 LSAT and I go to a law school ranked 40-60. I have a summer DA's internship on my resume, 4 years of volunteer experience with the court in undergrad, and I am even in a specialty clinic at my school that caters to veterans. Also maybe externing this summer with one of the branches.

What are my odds of making the cut with these facts in your experience? I had a rough first semester and then when Corona made everything P/F until this recently my GPA has been absolutely jobbed, does anyone here think they will take that into consideration? Any insight appreciated.

Also good luck to all you other JAG applicants out here!
I don't think the GPA is disqualifying, though be prepared to own it in the interview. Your other academic stats are certainly fine.

Did you actually get an entry level separation, or were you just discharged from the DEP? The former might be a bigger obstacle than the GPA.

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