DOJ Honors Program 2022-2023 Forum

[Anonymous User]

If one gets experience in EOIR, how would that be viewed by other components? I'm considering ranking EOIR, but I'm not particularly interested in immigration. I just think it might be a more viable/less competitive option. I read that EOIR clerks may reapply to the Honors Program in a subsequent year for permanent positions in other components, but I'm wondering if EOIR experience would even be attractive to other components. What do people think?

I don’t know if this is advisable if you’re not interested in immigration. I know someone who did EOIR and then got a job with a litigating component in civil division but they ended up in one of the immigration branches of civil.

I would think you’d be better off clerking (even for a state court judge) or extending your eligibility in some other way. But I could be way off.

[Anonymous User]

I’m very interested in MLARS in Crim. Considering that, is there a downside to ranking the asset forfeiture fellowship over Crim-Trial? I’d love to do either, so I want to rank in a way that maximizes my chances to be considers for either. (No clue if I’m wrong and there’s no ranking involved for preferred sections in Crim. I’m planning to rank Crim first.)

I'm interested in knowing this too! Also, the website says you may designate an interest in trial attorney vs. MLARS. Must you? Is it disadvantageous not to?

[DTrainz]

I'm doing a fellowship in 2023 involving consumer protection law, but this is my first experience with this area. I'll list it on my resume, but I don't think this will help my application much because I won't even have started the fellowship when I submit my application. Am I wrong? Is this a reason to consider ranking Civil first??

[Anonymous User]

If one gets experience in EOIR, how would that be viewed by other components? I'm considering ranking EOIR, but I'm not particularly interested in immigration. I just think it might be a more viable/less competitive option. I read that EOIR clerks may reapply to the Honors Program in a subsequent year for permanent positions in other components, but I'm wondering if EOIR experience would even be attractive to other components. What do people think?

So, it will obviously be very attractive for other immigration jobs. It will give you some luster as someone familiar with the federal government, but I don’t think it’s going to radically transform a candidate outside the immigration context. DOJ is really big and many of the jobs are so different, that having federal experience in something completely unrelated to what you really want to do will only go so far.

It’s certainly not going to *hurt* you and it depends a little what your other options are, your long term goals, and how well the EOIR OCIJ gig transfers. Like if you want to maintain eligibility for an additional Honors app, and you can’t line up a clerkship or fellowship, OCIJ is great. You can probably talk up the writing and research components of the job. And you will make federal connections.

But keep in mind that if you work in the immigration court in Lumpkin, GA you’re not going to make the same kinds of connections as if you’re working in DC or the like.

I’m not trying to diss the EOIR clerkship - I'm sure it’s a great gig and you’d learn a lot. But it is highly immigration specific and I’m not sure that taking it to get your foot in the door with other components because it’s less competitive is a sure thing. If you really want to do, say, criminal tax, you might be better off getting a tax law job or a local prosecution job and working your way into the federal government that way, rather than doing the EOIR gig just because it’s federal.

[Anonymous User]

I’m very interested in MLARS in Crim. Considering that, is there a downside to ranking the asset forfeiture fellowship over Crim-Trial? I’d love to do either, so I want to rank in a way that maximizes my chances to be considers for either. (No clue if I’m wrong and there’s no ranking involved for preferred sections in Crim. I’m planning to rank Crim first.)

I'm interested in knowing this too! Also, the website says you may designate an interest in trial attorney vs. MLARS. Must you? Is it disadvantageous not to?

I think you are much less likely to get crim if you rank MLARS over trial attorney, but that the reverse isn’t quite true - I think MLARS would still be interested if you ranked it below trial attorney. But this is just a gut feeling based on the fact that asset forfeiture isn’t always seen to be as “sexy” or competitive as straight crim. (It’s super important and the people who do it tend to love it and geek out over it; but your hard core trial crim people would probably view it as lesser than the trial attorney gig.) Plus it’s only a fellowship whereas the trial attorney positions are supposed to be permanent, so if you chose the short term over the permanent, the trial attorney people might think you weren’t as interested.

That said, there’s only so much value in gaming this - if you genuinely prefer one over the other, there’s a lot to be said for just ranking honestly.

[Anonymous User]

I'm doing a fellowship in 2023 involving consumer protection law, but this is my first experience with this area. I'll list it on my resume, but I don't think this will help my application much because I won't even have started the fellowship when I submit my application. Am I wrong? Is this a reason to consider ranking Civil first??

Not sure I understand the question. What are your alternatives - what else are you considering ranking first? One thing to keep in mind is that although you won’t have started the fellowship when you apply, you’ll have completed it when you start at DOJ (if you get an offer), so they will be looking to what experience you will have by then, not just when you apply. If you want to work for civil doing consumer protection, being able to show that you will have some of that experience when you start is valuable. On the other hand, if you want to do (say) crim, then rank crim first and talk about consumer protection being a different way to exercise your interest in protecting the public.

Again (I’m the anon above) I think ranking based on what you’re most interested in is often the best strategy. Just be able to talk about how (in this case) consumer protection makes you qualified to do whatever it is that you ranked.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know when the various USAOs make decisions? I expect it’s a department-by-department decision, so my guess is it varies. But curious about other insights.

Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know when the various USAOs make decisions? I expect it’s a department-by-department decision, so my guess is it varies. But curious about other insights.

Thanks!

The "formal" component USAOs decide on the same timeline as all the other components (there are internal timelines set by OARM).

The "informal" USAOs can decide whenever they like. My impression is that they tended to follow the standard timeline or if anything decide more quickly, but it could depend or change by year. Pretty sure they don't get the applications any earlier than the other components - pretty sure that OARM releases all the apps after the deadline has passed, even to the informal components, so they won't see your app till after the deadline. But from that point on I think historically they've been a little more flexible with timing.

[Anonymous User]

If one gets experience in EOIR, how would that be viewed by other components? I'm considering ranking EOIR, but I'm not particularly interested in immigration. I just think it might be a more viable/less competitive option. I read that EOIR clerks may reapply to the Honors Program in a subsequent year for permanent positions in other components, but I'm wondering if EOIR experience would even be attractive to other components. What do people think?

I don’t know if this is advisable if you’re not interested in immigration. I know someone who did EOIR and then got a job with a litigating component in civil division but they ended up in one of the immigration branches of civil.

I would think you’d be better off clerking (even for a state court judge) or extending your eligibility in some other way. But I could be way off.

Three questions:

How competitive are the various AUSAs offices vis a vis the other components?

To the extent anyone has good information, would love to hear information on my specific chances. I did very well in a not-top law school, Clerked for a district court and appellate court, both flyover. Just wondering how likely it is that I’ll get an interview or 2 for the USAOs I applied to.

Also, is it common for components you didn’t apply to seek interviews? Seems like the App suggested that could happen, but I would assume that would be rare given the importance of ranking, especially when you didn’t even indicate you wanted to work for a particular component. Thoughts?

[Anonymous User]

If one gets experience in EOIR, how would that be viewed by other components? I'm considering ranking EOIR, but I'm not particularly interested in immigration. I just think it might be a more viable/less competitive option. I read that EOIR clerks may reapply to the Honors Program in a subsequent year for permanent positions in other components, but I'm wondering if EOIR experience would even be attractive to other components. What do people think?

I don’t know if this is advisable if you’re not interested in immigration. I know someone who did EOIR and then got a job with a litigating component in civil division but they ended up in one of the immigration branches of civil.

I would think you’d be better off clerking (even for a state court judge) or extending your eligibility in some other way. But I could be way off.

Three questions:

How competitive are the various AUSAs offices vis a vis the other components?

To the extent anyone has good information, would love to hear information on my specific chances. I did very well in a not-top law school, Clerked for a district court and appellate court, both flyover. Just wondering how likely it is that I’ll get an interview or 2 for the USAOs I applied to.

Also, is it common for components you didn’t apply to seek interviews? Seems like the App suggested that could happen, but I would assume that would be rare given the importance of ranking, especially when you didn’t even indicate you wanted to work for a particular component. Thoughts?

To start, I can’t help with the USAO office specific questions. But I went to a not top law school - T100ish, graduated summa, then clerked in a flyover district court. I was hired in a competitive litigating division. So your chances certainly are not zero. There very much seems to be less of a “top law school” focus in federal hiring than in big law. I think it would be extremely rare to be interviewed by a component you didn’t list.

[Anonymous User]

If one gets experience in EOIR, how would that be viewed by other components? I'm considering ranking EOIR, but I'm not particularly interested in immigration. I just think it might be a more viable/less competitive option. I read that EOIR clerks may reapply to the Honors Program in a subsequent year for permanent positions in other components, but I'm wondering if EOIR experience would even be attractive to other components. What do people think?

I don’t know if this is advisable if you’re not interested in immigration. I know someone who did EOIR and then got a job with a litigating component in civil division but they ended up in one of the immigration branches of civil.

I would think you’d be better off clerking (even for a state court judge) or extending your eligibility in some other way. But I could be way off.

Three questions:

How competitive are the various AUSAs offices vis a vis the other components?

To the extent anyone has good information, would love to hear information on my specific chances. I did very well in a not-top law school, Clerked for a district court and appellate court, both flyover. Just wondering how likely it is that I’ll get an interview or 2 for the USAOs I applied to.

Also, is it common for components you didn’t apply to seek interviews? Seems like the App suggested that could happen, but I would assume that would be rare given the importance of ranking, especially when you didn’t even indicate you wanted to work for a particular component. Thoughts?

Competitiveness for the USAOs will depend on which USAO. Border districts tend to hire from a broader range of candidates. Not sure if SDNY is listed as an informal component this year, but if so, they’re still going to hire like SDNY.

I agree with the comment above that DOJ can be less school-elitist than other employers. They love clerking and high grades (and being able to sell yourself as being into public service). Some components are more fussy than others - everyone I’ve found who went into civil rights has stellar qualifications - but they do engage in holistic review.

I would not hold your breath on getting interviewed by a component you didn’t apply to. I’ve been following these threads for a while and have never seen that.

[Anonymous User]

Safe to assume interviewees will be contacted by the end of the week?

Thanks.

[Anonymous User]

I definitely think interviewees will be contacted by close of business on Friday.

[Anonymous User]

I think so too. And looking back at last year, it looks like people were contacted on the next to last day of the month. (I’m looking at the DOJ Avue portal bulletin board thing, where the lady who runs the process posts.)

[Anonymous User]

Anyone get an interview request yet? I got one today for EOIR-OCIJ. Anyone have any insight on interviewing for that component and what kind of things they look for in an interview?

[Anonymous User]

At least some interviews are out, because I got a request

[Anonymous User]

At least some interviews are out, because I got a request

It is my understanding interviews are updated all at once, so if your avue portal isn’t updated and still says submitted or applied, then you didn’t receive any interviews.

[Anonymous User]

Does not look like I was selected for an interview . . . again. Good luck to everyone who was selected!

[Anonymous User]

Anyone who interviewed last year and lurks this thread have any interview advice?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone hear for interview selection from FBI, CRM, or Cyber fellowship?

Full disclosure- I had multiple interviews last year and my status has not changed on the portal. Either I was not selected this year (which is disappointing but fine) or some components have not yet updated. Someone on reddit said chatter was really low, also thinking multiple components have not posted.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone hear for interview selection from FBI, CRM, or Cyber fellowship?

Full disclosure- I had multiple interviews last year and my status has not changed on the portal. Either I was not selected this year (which is disappointing but fine) or some components have not yet updated. Someone on reddit said chatter was really low, also thinking multiple components have not posted.

I applied to these and I have no update online. I haven't read anywhere that people were given invitations for these divisions, but also it seems in previous years that all invitations went out at once. So I just assumed I did not get an interview. I hope they are just taking their time!

[Anonymous User]

Has the woman who administers all this (Deanna Willis or something like that) not posted anything in the community section of the online application system? She’s usually very good at letting people know when interviews for all components are going out vs. just a few early notifications.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone hear for interview selection from FBI, CRM, or Cyber fellowship?

Full disclosure- I had multiple interviews last year and my status has not changed on the portal. Either I was not selected this year (which is disappointing but fine) or some components have not yet updated. Someone on reddit said chatter was really low, also thinking multiple components have not posted.

I know someone who got Cyber.
And yes, responding to the latest post, the OARM person posted on the community board that all invites went out. From Thurs: "If your status has not changed to reflect interview selection, then you were not, at this time, selected. There may be some late additions - we will ensure any such notices are sent expeditiously."

fwiw I withdrew my ATR invite today so best of luck to anyone who was hoping for that one; perhaps may have made space for one such late addition

[Anonymous User]

Two questions.

First, Does anyone know what the odds are at the interview stage? Ie, how many people do components interview per position? This might me a component by component question, and If so, specifically interested in USAOs.

Second, when are final decisions made? Are we talking early November or end of November?

Thanks in advance.

[Anonymous User]

Two questions.

First, Does anyone know what the odds are at the interview stage? Ie, how many people do components interview per position? This might me a component by component question, and If so, specifically interested in USAOs.

Second, when are final decisions made? Are we talking early November or end of November?

Thanks in advance.

Unsure about AUSA offices because I think they mostly follow their own processes. Most components I know of get 4 interviews per 1 position + any veterans. So we here is a huge cut to get to the interview stage but it’s still a decent cut to finalists.