Affirmative vs. Defensive Litigation in USAO Civil Forum

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talons2250

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Affirmative vs. Defensive Litigation in USAO Civil

Post by talons2250 » Thu Mar 24, 2022 2:48 pm

Hello,

I am contemplating applying for an AUSA position in the Civil Divisions of the U.S. Attorneys' Offices for the SDNY and EDNY. Can I apply exclusively to the civil divisions in these USAOs? Also, in the civil division at each of these offices, what is the breakdown of affirmative and defensive litigation? Do civil AUSAs typically do half and half? I ask because I am significantly more interested in affirmative litigation than representing the United States as a defendant. I would especially like to avoid defending the federal government in civil rights cases, if at all possible. Any answers to these questions would be most welcome! Thanks.

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Re: Affirmative vs. Defensive Litigation in USAO Civil

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 24, 2022 4:17 pm

Go to their websites and look at the employment sections - it looks like EDNY lets you apply to one or the other division, while SDNY lets you express a preference but states that they have the prerogative to put you where the office needs you (that said, I have a hard time thinking they’d plonk someone who wants civil in the criminal division; I suspect they say that to justify putting would-be criminal AUSAs in civil. Plus you could just turn the job down if civil wasn’t an option).

Someone who knows those 2 districts better than I do will have to comment on the balance between affirmative enforcement and defensive litigation. My experience in USAOs has been that the vast majority of work is defensive litigation (my current office has 1 ACE AUSA and 4 generic civil, which is almost entirely defensive work), but I haven’t worked in that kind of major metro office. I also often see offices advertise specifically for ACE if that’s what they want you to do, but EDNY and SDNY both take rolling apps, so that doesn’t help here either. I think it would be difficult never to have to defend against allegations of civil rights violations, but admittedly that’s just speculation.

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Re: Affirmative vs. Defensive Litigation in USAO Civil

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 24, 2022 4:47 pm

talons2250 wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 2:48 pm
Hello,

I am contemplating applying for an AUSA position in the Civil Divisions of the U.S. Attorneys' Offices for the SDNY and EDNY. Can I apply exclusively to the civil divisions in these USAOs? Also, in the civil division at each of these offices, what is the breakdown of affirmative and defensive litigation? Do civil AUSAs typically do half and half? I ask because I am significantly more interested in affirmative litigation than representing the United States as a defendant. I would especially like to avoid defending the federal government in civil rights cases, if at all possible. Any answers to these questions would be most welcome! Thanks.
I agree with the poster who mentioned it’s 90% defensive litigation in civil divisions. Maybe if you’re interested in affirmative work, you could express an interest in Criminal Fraud (it seems like that may align more with your interests just based off your preference for civil). Otherwise your best bet may be to apply for Main Justice. They typically do much more of the affirmative work than the average USAO, but I will say that may be different at SDNY/EDNY. The districts I’ve observed have been mostly in the Midwest.

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Re: Affirmative vs. Defensive Litigation in USAO Civil

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:30 pm

talons2250 wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 2:48 pm
Hello,

I am contemplating applying for an AUSA position in the Civil Divisions of the U.S. Attorneys' Offices for the SDNY and EDNY. Can I apply exclusively to the civil divisions in these USAOs? Also, in the civil division at each of these offices, what is the breakdown of affirmative and defensive litigation? Do civil AUSAs typically do half and half? I ask because I am significantly more interested in affirmative litigation than representing the United States as a defendant. I would especially like to avoid defending the federal government in civil rights cases, if at all possible. Any answers to these questions would be most welcome! Thanks.
(Emphasis added). Delayed response here but anyway...

I think you might have a distorted picture of what defensive litigation in civil rights cases is really like. I'm an AUSA in that practice area. I love it when political nutjobs and/or racists sue the United States and it's my job to demolish them. It's not like every case you get involves a human rights violation. The US gets sued for absurd, frivolous, and meritless reasons all the time.

Either way, being a civil AUSA in a USAO will very often mean you are needed more for defensive work than affirmative. And handling cases with difficult social and moral questions is part of the duties of being a civil AUSA, with the expectation that you will know how to navigate these questions in keeping with the purpose of the DOJ: serving justice and protecting the constitutional rights of Americans. Doing this work is actually quite honorable and extremely important, in my opinion. When the United States does bad things, you are given the chance to be the human face of the United States as we try to fix it and apologize. (Yes, the DOJ does on occasion formally apologize to persons who have been injured or harmed by the United States).

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Re: Affirmative vs. Defensive Litigation in USAO Civil

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:45 pm

^ agreed with all the above, especially that there are a LOT of non-meritorious civil rights claims against the United States, and that the US will frequently settle if not fix issues and apologize where some kind of violation is clearly established.

talons2250

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Re: Affirmative vs. Defensive Litigation in USAO Civil

Post by talons2250 » Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:30 pm
talons2250 wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 2:48 pm
Hello,

I am contemplating applying for an AUSA position in the Civil Divisions of the U.S. Attorneys' Offices for the SDNY and EDNY. Can I apply exclusively to the civil divisions in these USAOs? Also, in the civil division at each of these offices, what is the breakdown of affirmative and defensive litigation? Do civil AUSAs typically do half and half? I ask because I am significantly more interested in affirmative litigation than representing the United States as a defendant. I would especially like to avoid defending the federal government in civil rights cases, if at all possible. Any answers to these questions would be most welcome! Thanks.
(Emphasis added). Delayed response here but anyway...

I think you might have a distorted picture of what defensive litigation in civil rights cases is really like. I'm an AUSA in that practice area. I love it when political nutjobs and/or racists sue the United States and it's my job to demolish them. It's not like every case you get involves a human rights violation. The US gets sued for absurd, frivolous, and meritless reasons all the time.

Either way, being a civil AUSA in a USAO will very often mean you are needed more for defensive work than affirmative. And handling cases with difficult social and moral questions is part of the duties of being a civil AUSA, with the expectation that you will know how to navigate these questions in keeping with the purpose of the DOJ: serving justice and protecting the constitutional rights of Americans. Doing this work is actually quite honorable and extremely important, in my opinion. When the United States does bad things, you are given the chance to be the human face of the United States as we try to fix it and apologize. (Yes, the DOJ does on occasion formally apologize to persons who have been injured or harmed by the United States).
This is very helpful. Thanks!

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