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Re: AUSA at Major USAO - AMA

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:27 am

Is there an "average" length of time AUSAs stay years wise?

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Re: AUSA at Major USAO - AMA

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is there an "average" length of time AUSAs stay years wise?
As far as I can tell, the minimum amount of time people spend here is 5-6 years. Anything less than that and you're not likely to be a very credible / experienced lawyer with value to the private sector. That said, I'd say that folks that decamp to the private sector more often spend a little longer here, probably something more like 7-10 years. And then some people of course spend their entire careers here, or the majority of it, so it really does fall along a spectrum.

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Re: AUSA at Major USAO - AMA

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:53 pm

I clerked for a federal district court judge in district that is center or possibly left-of-center. My judge was well known as far left of all the other judges in the district (think lighter sentences, less likely to apply an enhancement, consistently varies down from the guidelines, etc.). I've heard that the USAO in my district doesn't like to hire my judge's former clerks because of this, and, in fact, they do not have any of my judge's former clerks working in that office. I've also heard that they do not have any former clerks because it's a function of my judge hiring people who otherwise wouldn't want to work in a prosecutor's office so they're just self-selecting out. Have you heard/experienced anything similar to this rumor, and, in your opinion, could it be true?

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Re: AUSA at Major USAO - AMA

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I clerked for a federal district court judge in district that is center or possibly left-of-center. My judge was well known as far left of all the other judges in the district (think lighter sentences, less likely to apply an enhancement, consistently varies down from the guidelines, etc.). I've heard that the USAO in my district doesn't like to hire my judge's former clerks because of this, and, in fact, they do not have any of my judge's former clerks working in that office. I've also heard that they do not have any former clerks because it's a function of my judge hiring people who otherwise wouldn't want to work in a prosecutor's office so they're just self-selecting out. Have you heard/experienced anything similar to this rumor, and, in your opinion, could it be true?
OP here. I can't speak for other USAOs' hiring practices, but I would expect that most operate similarly to mine, which is to seek out and vet high quality candidates, full-stop. What they care about is whether you have the skills / experience / disposition to do the job well. Clerking for a particular judge with a particular reputation gives the USAO only very limited insight into how you would be as an AUSA, so I expect that all else being equal, a qualified candidate who clerked for a "liberal" judge would still at least get called in for an interview.

As for what I've observed in my own office, I don't think there's any discrimination against clerks of particular judges. I know of at least two colleagues hired in the last 3 years who clerked for a judge in my district who is widely respected but also well known for being very progressive and reform-minded. It didn't seem to hurt them in the application process.

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Re: AUSA at Major USAO - AMA

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:25 pm

In my non-major office, I don’t think anyone assumes that someone who clerks for a judge necessarily shares their politics. In particular, at least to my knowledge, a lot of judges don’t really involve their clerks in routine sentencings, and I think that even where a clerk gets involved in the legal side of it, judges have clear opinions about sentencing that drive the outcome a bit differently from, say, general civil lit. I would agree that if people clerk for a judge like yours specifically for their views on criminal justice, yeah, they’re not likely to want to be a prosecutor and will self-select out. Otherwise I wouldn’t assume that one of their clerks would be a bad candidate based on their judge’s decisions.

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Re: AUSA at Major USAO - AMA

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:27 pm

I'm working for a year in big law in DC then clerking for a district court and on the CoA. Both the judges sit in the district/circuit of the USAO that I'd like to eventually practice in. Would three years practicing (one in biglaw, two as a clerk) make me competitive for an AUSA position in a major market or will I need to go back to a firm/DAs office to stand a chance? I'm particularly interested in appellate. The district isn't SDNY/EDNY but think NDIL/SDFL/CDCA.

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Re: AUSA at Major USAO - AMA

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm working for a year in big law in DC then clerking for a district court and on the CoA. Both the judges sit in the district/circuit of the USAO that I'd like to eventually practice in. Would three years practicing (one in biglaw, two as a clerk) make me competitive for an AUSA position in a major market or will I need to go back to a firm/DAs office to stand a chance? I'm particularly interested in appellate. The district isn't SDNY/EDNY but think NDIL/SDFL/CDCA.
I think it will depend somewhat on the office, and who else applies. You might be a little junior at that point - you might need a little more practice experience (either firm or DA, again, depending on the office or what experience you can get). Or you might be good, with an office that likes to take someone who shows potential and mold you. I think it’s worth applying, but nothing is guaranteed. Someone with your basic profile but 2-3 more years actual practice experience could well be a stronger candidate in many offices.

(For reference - my not-major-metro office gets close to 200 apps for a permanent position. Major metros are going to get more.)

Also, this may not apply to the district you’re targeting, but not all offices take rolling applications - some only hire when they have a specific opening. So at those offices it’s hard to know what level you will actually be when you apply. (But again, this may not apply to you.)

Appellate is hard because appellate-exclusive positions are much rarer than general criminal. Many offices have criminal AUSAs handle their own appeals, so while there are always going to be some appellate-only attorneys for a variety of reasons, there may not be many (I worked at a previous office with about 65 criminal attorneys and 4 appellate attorneys; my current office has 1 appellate attorney).

So it’s kind of impossible to say how competitive you’ll be, frankly.

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Re: AUSA at Major USAO - AMA

Post by wisdom » Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'm working for a year in big law in DC then clerking for a district court and on the CoA. Both the judges sit in the district/circuit of the USAO that I'd like to eventually practice in. Would three years practicing (one in biglaw, two as a clerk) make me competitive for an AUSA position in a major market or will I need to go back to a firm/DAs office to stand a chance? I'm particularly interested in appellate. The district isn't SDNY/EDNY but think NDIL/SDFL/CDCA.
This isn't impossible but more experience than a year of big law and two clerkships is definitely helpful. It also depends on the nature of your experience as a clerk. The most important skill that you need as an appellate lawyer is being a good writer, and that takes practice. Some judges let you do a lot of writing/drafting, some do not require as much, and the USAO is going to know how your judges train their clerks. So if you're not writing a ton while clerking, your desired USAO's appellate section probably would expect you to put in a few years elsewhere to get that writing experience.

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Re: AUSA at Major USAO - AMA

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:53 am

How would you complete two clerkships without doing a lot of writing?

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Re: AUSA at Major USAO - AMA

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:30 pm

I applied to an AUSA office two years ago but never heard from them, took a DA's office job in the same city instead. When would be too early/the right time to re-apply? Have lawfirm and clerkship background (but in non-competitive, different district)

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Re: AUSA at Major USAO - AMA

Post by Quichelorraine » Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:37 am

1) How has your job, or your office, been affected by the apparent politicization of the DOJ? Has any of that trickled down to you, or have you been mostly immune?

2) Nevertheless, if Main Justice interfered with a criminal prosecution in your District for political reasons--either to encourage you to charge someone who would not otherwise be charged, or to tell you to drop charges/go light on someone politically connected--would the infrastructure of your office be able to stop it from happening?

3) If the answer to 2) is "no," would members of your office go along with it or resign?

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Re: AUSA at Major USAO - AMA

Post by andythefir » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:42 pm

Quichelorraine wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:37 am
1) How has your job, or your office, been affected by the apparent politicization of the DOJ? Has any of that trickled down to you, or have you been mostly immune?

2) Nevertheless, if Main Justice interfered with a criminal prosecution in your District for political reasons--either to encourage you to charge someone who would not otherwise be charged, or to tell you to drop charges/go light on someone politically connected--would the infrastructure of your office be able to stop it from happening?

3) If the answer to 2) is "no," would members of your office go along with it or resign?
Not an AUSA, but it would be super weird for main justice to dictate something like that. If there was something relevant to DC, it’s extremely unusual a line attorney would be handling it. That would definitely go to a supervisor or other bigwig.

Much more salient to a line person is whether you’re prosecuting a million or 0 immigration cases, I expect that would be pretty jarring when AG Jefferson Sessions took over.

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Re: AUSA at Major USAO - AMA

Post by 2020aesthetic » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:18 pm

Thanks for the thread!

1. Have you see anyone without criminal law background get hired for the crim division? How so?
2. How long was the interview process for you? From application to interviews to offer, and when did you start?
3. Are you working remotely? How's that going?

Thanks so much.

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Re: AUSA at Major USAO - AMA

Post by andythefir » Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:46 pm

2020aesthetic wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:18 pm
Thanks for the thread!

1. Have you see anyone without criminal law background get hired for the crim division? How so?
2. How long was the interview process for you? From application to interviews to offer, and when did you start?
3. Are you working remotely? How's that going?

Thanks so much.
The jurisdiction where I’m a state prosecutor has hired 90% clerks directly out of clerkships without a minute of crim or attorney experience. USAs get so many applications for every single position they can hire whatever background they want. There’s good general advice re how to catch on (trials + writing + academic credentials), but the reality is that you’re ultimately subject to the whims of a person with completely control. And those people get shuffled every 4-8 years. So if you’re willing to apply all over the country, odds are good you’ll catch on somewhere if you have generic AUSA credentials. But if you’re shooting for one market, you have to do your homework on that USA.

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Re: AUSA at Major USAO - AMA

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:20 pm

AUSA at not so major USAO - people do get hired without criminal experience, but generally out of biglaw, with a clerkship, and at least some practice experience (ideally some courtroom experience). The other kind of people we hire are state prosecutors with lots of criminal trial experience, or AUSAs from other districts. That appears to have been relatively consistent across USAs here based on what I can tell, but it certainly can vary a lot.

Interviews in my office are usually done in about a month-6 weeks from the application deadline, and offer maybe 1-4 weeks after that? It just depends on a lot of factors.

My office lets us work remotely and almost all our hearings are via video right now. It’s fine. Sometimes it’s annoying dealing with everything electronically; I can go into the office to pick up physical files, but am too lazy to do so regularly. We’d instituted a telework policy last year which helps - it wasn’t intended to be used quite this intensively, but the supervisors weren’t dragged into the telework world kicking and screaming.

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Re: AUSA at Major USAO - AMA

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:50 pm

For someone making the transition from big law to AUSA, is there anything you’d recommend they do before starting as an AUSA?

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Re: AUSA at Major USAO - AMA

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:06 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:50 pm
For someone making the transition from big law to AUSA, is there anything you’d recommend they do before starting as an AUSA?
Yes -- take as much time off between jobs as possible. Granted, options for how to spend that time off are a lot more limited than they used to be, but having time to decompress and not worry about any work emails is invaluable. I took a solid 7 weeks off between jobs and loved every moment of it.

But in terms of nuts-and-bolts preparation for the new job, I honestly wouldn't stress about that. It'll all be new, and you'll learn it quickly because you'll be thrown into the deep end (at least if you're anything like my district). If you're really so inclined, maybe look up your district's court calendar and listen in on some remote telephone conferences, especially initial appearances and bail arguments. Those will be very relevant to your new practice.

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Re: AUSA at Major USAO - AMA

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:13 am

andythefir wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:42 pm
Quichelorraine wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:37 am
1) How has your job, or your office, been affected by the apparent politicization of the DOJ? Has any of that trickled down to you, or have you been mostly immune?

2) Nevertheless, if Main Justice interfered with a criminal prosecution in your District for political reasons--either to encourage you to charge someone who would not otherwise be charged, or to tell you to drop charges/go light on someone politically connected--would the infrastructure of your office be able to stop it from happening?

3) If the answer to 2) is "no," would members of your office go along with it or resign?
Not an AUSA, but it would be super weird for main justice to dictate something like that. If there was something relevant to DC, it’s extremely unusual a line attorney would be handling it. That would definitely go to a supervisor or other bigwig.

Much more salient to a line person is whether you’re prosecuting a million or 0 immigration cases, I expect that would be pretty jarring when AG Jefferson Sessions took over.
I would imagine the questioner was referring to something like Roger Stone, who was prosecuted by line attorneys.

As for the immigration stuff, offices prosecuted immigration cases under Obama, too. The change isn't *that* stark if you're not in a border district (and if you're in a border district you've already made your peace with prosecuting a lot of immigration cases).

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Re: AUSA at Major USAO - AMA

Post by bissell2 » Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:20 pm

Any advice for someone starting as an ADA who wants to eventually be an AUSA? Anything you've noticed ends up being a problem for former ADAs? I've heard that part of why they make up fewer AUSAs is because they form bad/sloppy habits because of how quickly they are thrown into court with little training - do you think there's any truth to that?

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Re: AUSA at Major USAO - AMA

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:37 am

Not OP, a different AUSA: Get as much substantial writing experience as you can. One concern is that ADAs don’t have to write anything of substance and AUSAs do a ton of writing. There is a concern about sloppiness, but I think it’s more about what flies in state court that won’t fly in federal court. So just be very ready to recognize that you may need to make some changes to what you think you know. (But FWIW I know tons and tons of former state prosecutor AUSAs. High volume districts really appreciate their trial experience.) If you can get a federal clerkship, I think that helps assuage both concerns.

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Re: AUSA at Major USAO - AMA

Post by andythefir » Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:31 pm

bissell2 wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:20 pm
Any advice for someone starting as an ADA who wants to eventually be an AUSA? Anything you've noticed ends up being a problem for former ADAs? I've heard that part of why they make up fewer AUSAs is because they form bad/sloppy habits because of how quickly they are thrown into court with little training - do you think there's any truth to that?
Understand that in a volume DAs office it is so easy to go with the flow and you wake up 3 years later having just moved the chocolates through the factory without getting the experience or expertise you wanted. Raise your hand to second chair everything, volunteer to write motions for more senior folks, do your homework re what kind of cases your target USAO does and ask to be staffed there. Most DAs hate child porn or white collar prosecutions, so it’s not hard to become a go-to for that kind of work, which will translate directly into USAO work. Also, murders are cool to prosecute and DUI experts can make huge money on the defense side, but except for Indian country or something odd like that, USAOs give no rips that you have that experience except insofar as it flags the DA office thinks you’re particularly competent.

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Re: AUSA at Major USAO - AMA

Post by hugerez » Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:29 am

Can you discuss the interview process? What did they ask? How did you prepare?

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Re: AUSA at Major USAO - AMA

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:24 am

Along the lines of the previous question, how long should you wait after you’ve had your final interview to hear back? Can you please share your timeline with us?

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Re: AUSA at Major USAO - AMA

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:58 pm

OP here.

My office's interview process has three rounds. The first is with two line AUSAs, the second is with two section chiefs or deputy chiefs, and the third is with the U.S. Attorney and other front office personnel. Each interview lasted roughly half an hour. The questions are pretty much what you'd expect --

"Why do you want to be an AUSA?"
"What sort of experience do you have that you think would make you a good AUSA?"
"Why should we pick you over other candidates?"

I didn't get any hypos except in the second round, where they seemed to grill me more. You can find classic examples online just by searching for prosecutor interview hypotheticals.

My timeline seemed pretty aberrant compared to most. Several months between submission of my application and my first interview. Second interview about a month later. And then crickets for almost a year until I let my office know that I'd progressed to late stage interviews at other offices. That woke them up, and they gave me an offer very soon after.

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Re: AUSA at Major USAO - AMA

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:55 pm

bissell2 wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:20 pm
Any advice for someone starting as an ADA who wants to eventually be an AUSA? Anything you've noticed ends up being a problem for former ADAs? I've heard that part of why they make up fewer AUSAs is because they form bad/sloppy habits because of how quickly they are thrown into court with little training - do you think there's any truth to that?
Former ADA who became an AUSA here. I have a few thoughts.

First, I think some ADAs do indeed form bad/sloppy habits. In my experience, this tends to happen in larger, urban DA offices. The combination of significant case load volume and a short-staffed office results in a lack of adequate training for new ADAs before they start trying cases. Additionally, there is often so much turnover at these offices that it is hard to develop a large cadre of well-experienced ADAs who can train new ADAs. But if you are at one of those types of offices, I would recommend trying to find a well-experienced ADA who can mentor you. Otherwise, lateraling to a more suburban or rural DA office can sometimes result in a work environment conducive to better mentorship due to less turnover and lower case volume.

Second, I would advise you to get felony trial experience as soon as possible. New ADAs usually start in misdemeanor court, but USAOs care principally about your experience trying felonies.

Third, I would advise you to develop a specialty as soon as possible. Criminal AUSAs are usually divided into sections corresponding to drugs/guns, child exploitation, and white collar. If you can develop experience prosecuting one of those categories at the state level, it will give you an advantage when it comes to interviewing with the USAO because your experience will be directly on point. For example, outside of proving a jurisdictional component, a felon in possession of a firearm prosecution at the state level is no different than a felon in possession of a firearm prosecution at the federal level.

Fourth, try to develop a good writing sample as an ADA. Even when the court doesn't requiring briefing, it is still a good idea to brief certain types of motions. For example, if you have a suppression motion in a big drug case, try to brief a response. It gets you in the habit of writing, and it will give you a sample to use when you apply for USAO openings. USAOs are often concerned that ADAs lack strong writing skills, and a good writing sample will alleviate those concerns.

Finally, when applying to an office, take a look at the U.S. Attorney's profile. This may give you a sense of the office's hiring practices. The U.S. Attorney who hired me was a state prosecutor before joining the USAO and tended to hire state prosecutors. A U.S. Attorney coming from private practice might have a different hiring practice. Just something to keep in mind.

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