Is Kirkland pushing back incoming associate start dates? Forum

[Anonymous User]

This stuff about "my professor said" is some of the dumbest shit I have ever heard. No professor is "calling" market liquidity crises. No soul in the world is an authority on that, not unless they've made billions (literally, with a "b") doing it before.

Even then, they're not doing it. There's a long history of people making billions on one call and then being wrong (or just 50/50) on everything for the rest of their lives. Look at basically everybody who called 2008, for example.

Quitting while you're ahead to go teach is 100% the right strategy.

You don't get knighted in England, or loan your personal art collections to museums, or decide to teach philanthropically with your spare time because you got *poor* with your intelligence. JFC. So many jealous a-holes on this sub. Like, it's actually okay to admit that successful people exist also saw things like this coming years before hand. The point is a lot of people were talking about this, just because you weren't in those conversations doesn't mean they didn't happen. I mean there has been like a whole school of literature from 2008 onwards about how a liquidity crisis was coming and 2008 was just the beginning. Or...is it natural for healthy economies to operate at collapsing interest rates for a decade +?

No one is saying that people can’t make an educated guess at the future, wager a ton of money on it, and cash in. That happens everyday in the financial services industry. What people are saying is that somehow, by miracle of god, there exist one or two or groups of people having conversations who know the future and can be trusted to always know the future. That is impossible. Yes, some people take a major risk and it pays off. Some of those people worked very hard to learn a little more info than the other guy to feel confident enough to toss down cash (hopefully someone else’s cash while you snag a sick fee), but they do not have access to knowledge of the future, and there is no need to treat them like an oracle or Demi-god.

[nixy]

This stuff about "my professor said" is some of the dumbest shit I have ever heard. No professor is "calling" market liquidity crises. No soul in the world is an authority on that, not unless they've made billions (literally, with a "b") doing it before.

Even then, they're not doing it. There's a long history of people making billions on one call and then being wrong (or just 50/50) on everything for the rest of their lives. Look at basically everybody who called 2008, for example.

Quitting while you're ahead to go teach is 100% the right strategy.

You don't get knighted in England, or loan your personal art collections to museums, or decide to teach philanthropically with your spare time because you got *poor* with your intelligence. JFC. So many jealous a-holes on this sub. Like, it's actually okay to admit that successful people exist also saw things like this coming years before hand. The point is a lot of people were talking about this, just because you weren't in those conversations doesn't mean they didn't happen. I mean there has been like a whole school of literature from 2008 onwards about how a liquidity crisis was coming and 2008 was just the beginning. Or...is it natural for healthy economies to operate at collapsing interest rates for a decade +?

You haven't answered whether the specific timing of this liquidity crisis was identified at the time biglaw firms were hiring the current crop of associates, back in the summer of 2021. Firms have also been burned in the (relatively recent) past by hiring small classes/cutting early associates, then having to hire a ton of laterals later because they don't have enough midlevels when they need them. So what exactly are you saying that Kirkland et al should have done at OCI in 2021?

[Anonymous User]

Can we please get this thread back on topic? I don't think the primary concern here is Sir Predictsalot...

[Anonymous User]

Is there any chance they birfucate the date by group (e.g. corp later)

[Anonymous User]

Here's a bit of a macro question: apart from a change on the website and Gunderson doing it, what evidence is there to suggest that K&E intends to do this? I've heard from someone I know at K&E that (this was back in March) the relocation support people told them the start date would be in September.

[Anonymous User]

Here's a bit of a macro question: apart from a change on the website and Gunderson doing it, what evidence is there to suggest that K&E intends to do this? I've heard from someone I know at K&E that (this was back in March) the relocation support people told them the start date would be in September.

That’s why I’m convinced it’s a whole lot of nothing. It’s most likely something administrative or schedule-related because the first week for first years is entirely training, and they’re probably trying to plan it in-person around a ton of schedules.

ETA I’m a current K&E associate whose start date was pushed a week with no explanation and nothing whatsoever was wrong. I rarely post (and almost always anonymously because it’s about current/future jobs) but I don’t want people to stress about something that genuinely could be nothing.

[Anonymous User]

Here's a bit of a macro question: apart from a change on the website and Gunderson doing it, what evidence is there to suggest that K&E intends to do this? I've heard from someone I know at K&E that (this was back in March) the relocation support people told them the start date would be in September.

What prompted speculation was k&e removing a September start date from its onboarding incoming associate portal and replacing it with what is quoted in OP's original post. It could very likely be nothing. I'm hoping that's the case. But the speculation wasn't incepted solely from gunderson's move.

[Anonymous User]

At least some firms are considering reassuring their incoming associates after the news. Milbank emailed their incoming associates assuring them about their start date. One of my professors, a partner at a big law firm, wondered if his firm would do the same.

[Anonymous User]

Any further idle speculation or obscure data to fill this info void?

I know K&E cut back on summer conferences, but i dont think thats news.

[Anonymous User]

So uh... we're nearing the end of April. Where is that promised start date information?

[Anonymous User]

So uh... we're nearing the end of April. Where is that promised start date information?

Now the portal says the next communication will come "later this Spring"

[Anonymous User]

So uh... we're nearing the end of April. Where is that promised start date information?

Now the portal says the next communication will come "later this Spring"

This is getting weird.

[Anonymous User]

Feels like they're piping up to deliver some bad news. I'm thinking we'll have a november start date.

[Anonymous User]

Feels like they're piping up to deliver some bad news. I'm thinking we'll have a november start date.

My best guess is they are going to offer multiple dates. Don’t think they will Cooley us but also wouldn’t be surprised if they gave options to start later

[Anonymous User]

Don’t have news to share, but just want to stress that the start date getting pushed back doesn’t have to be bad news. Kirkland will pay its first years to hang around and you can travel, relax, do whatever you want. Your career will always be there and a deferred start date (with comp, which will most likely be included!) is actually pretty ideal. And there’s nothing you can do about it anyway - whether you admit it or not, this was the risk you took when you gambled on Kirkland over other more financially conservative firms. You valued the “prestige” and opportunity, or whatever it was, and chose Kirkland. So you assumed the risk. If I were you I’d be hoping for a paid deferral and just take an extended bar trip.

[Anonymous User]

Don’t have news to share, but just want to stress that the start date getting pushed back doesn’t have to be bad news. Kirkland will pay its first years to hang around and you can travel, relax, do whatever you want. Your career will always be there and a deferred start date (with comp, which will most likely be included!) is actually pretty ideal. And there’s nothing you can do about it anyway - whether you admit it or not, this was the risk you took when you gambled on Kirkland over other more financially conservative firms. You valued the “prestige” and opportunity, or whatever it was, and chose Kirkland. So you assumed the risk. If I were you I’d be hoping for a paid deferral and just take an extended bar trip.

Again, no deferral has actually happened and 100% of the comments in this thread are pure speculation.

[Anonymous User]

Don’t have news to share, but just want to stress that the start date getting pushed back doesn’t have to be bad news. Kirkland will pay its first years to hang around and you can travel, relax, do whatever you want. Your career will always be there and a deferred start date (with comp, which will most likely be included!) is actually pretty ideal. And there’s nothing you can do about it anyway - whether you admit it or not, this was the risk you took when you gambled on Kirkland over other more financially conservative firms. You valued the “prestige” and opportunity, or whatever it was, and chose Kirkland. So you assumed the risk. If I were you I’d be hoping for a paid deferral and just take an extended bar trip.

As an NSP here I think it's pretty clear they're figuring out how to stagger start dates based on practice group/office. To think that all 425+ first years are starting on-time is delusional at this point. I also wouldn't assume the firm will pay full-freight during the deferral period. Just my gut based on seeing what it's like around here lately.

[Anonymous User]

Don’t have news to share, but just want to stress that the start date getting pushed back doesn’t have to be bad news. Kirkland will pay its first years to hang around and you can travel, relax, do whatever you want. Your career will always be there and a deferred start date (with comp, which will most likely be included!) is actually pretty ideal. And there’s nothing you can do about it anyway - whether you admit it or not, this was the risk you took when you gambled on Kirkland over other more financially conservative firms. You valued the “prestige” and opportunity, or whatever it was, and chose Kirkland. So you assumed the risk. If I were you I’d be hoping for a paid deferral and just take an extended bar trip.

Would we be getting paid a full salary during the time we are deferred? It is my understanding that we would get a stipend around 10K that we would have to make stretch for 3+ months. If my understanding is incorrect, I enthusiastically take your point.

If it's not, then I'll note that for some of us, having to stretch a 10K stipend over the course of 3 months rather than making a competitive salary that would otherwise be afforded with a JD from a good school is concerning. If I'm making over 40K pre tax over the 10-12 weeks I'm deferred, I'll happily relax, take that vacation, and do whatever I want. If it's the 10K...eek.

[Anonymous User]

Don’t have news to share, but just want to stress that the start date getting pushed back doesn’t have to be bad news. Kirkland will pay its first years to hang around and you can travel, relax, do whatever you want. Your career will always be there and a deferred start date (with comp, which will most likely be included!) is actually pretty ideal. And there’s nothing you can do about it anyway - whether you admit it or not, this was the risk you took when you gambled on Kirkland over other more financially conservative firms. You valued the “prestige” and opportunity, or whatever it was, and chose Kirkland. So you assumed the risk. If I were you I’d be hoping for a paid deferral and just take an extended bar trip.

Would we be getting paid a full salary during the time we are deferred? It is my understanding that we would get a stipend around 10K that we would have to make stretch for 3+ months. If my understanding is incorrect, I enthusiastically take your point.

If it's not, then I'll note that for some of us, having to stretch a 10K stipend over the course of 3 months rather than making a competitive salary that would otherwise be afforded with a JD from a good school is concerning. If I'm making over 40K pre tax over the 10-12 weeks I'm deferred, I'll happily relax, take that vacation, and do whatever I want. If it's the 10K...eek.

Feel like there's no point in deferral if they still have to pay full salaries.

[Anonymous User]

Don’t have news to share, but just want to stress that the start date getting pushed back doesn’t have to be bad news. Kirkland will pay its first years to hang around and you can travel, relax, do whatever you want. Your career will always be there and a deferred start date (with comp, which will most likely be included!) is actually pretty ideal. And there’s nothing you can do about it anyway - whether you admit it or not, this was the risk you took when you gambled on Kirkland over other more financially conservative firms. You valued the “prestige” and opportunity, or whatever it was, and chose Kirkland. So you assumed the risk. If I were you I’d be hoping for a paid deferral and just take an extended bar trip.

Would we be getting paid a full salary during the time we are deferred? It is my understanding that we would get a stipend around 10K that we would have to make stretch for 3+ months. If my understanding is incorrect, I enthusiastically take your point.

If it's not, then I'll note that for some of us, having to stretch a 10K stipend over the course of 3 months rather than making a competitive salary that would otherwise be afforded with a JD from a good school is concerning. If I'm making over 40K pre tax over the 10-12 weeks I'm deferred, I'll happily relax, take that vacation, and do whatever I want. If it's the 10K...eek.

Feel like there's no point in deferral if they still have to pay full salaries.

That would be my thinking as well. Which is why I posed the question to the OP with the eat, pray, love take on this matter.

[Anonymous User]

Markets are not improving any time soon. My bet is definitely either staggered starts based on practice area or pushing everyone back to January with a reduced stipend to cover. No way KE starts 400+ new attorneys in this market with overall workloads going down.

[Anonymous User]

Markets are not improving any time soon. My bet is definitely either staggered starts based on practice area or pushing everyone back to January with a reduced stipend to cover. No way KE starts 400+ new attorneys in this market with overall workloads going down.

Since we are speculating anyway; any guess on latest/earliest start dates? I'll be an incoming associate and am not sure about how busy or slow groups are outside of corporate being slow. If bet plays, corporate would start in January. How about lit? rx? Any world in which they start late september / early october? How busy are those groups right now?

[Anonymous User]

Markets are not improving any time soon. My bet is definitely either staggered starts based on practice area or pushing everyone back to January with a reduced stipend to cover. No way KE starts 400+ new attorneys in this market with overall workloads going down.

Since we are speculating anyway; any guess on latest/earliest start dates? I'll be an incoming associate and am not sure about how busy or slow groups are outside of corporate being slow. If bet plays, corporate would start in January. How about lit? rx? Any world in which they start late september / early october? How busy are those groups right now?

Restructuring + Funds + IP litigation associates will start first - guessing October. General corporate will get pushed to January unless it’s a smaller but busy office that just needs people quickly. No idea how busy general lit has been.

[Anonymous User]

Markets are not improving any time soon. My bet is definitely either staggered starts based on practice area or pushing everyone back to January with a reduced stipend to cover. No way KE starts 400+ new attorneys in this market with overall workloads going down.

Since we are speculating anyway; any guess on latest/earliest start dates? I'll be an incoming associate and am not sure about how busy or slow groups are outside of corporate being slow. If bet plays, corporate would start in January. How about lit? rx? Any world in which they start late september / early october? How busy are those groups right now?

Restructuring + Funds + IP litigation associates will start first - guessing October. General corporate will get pushed to January unless it’s a smaller but busy office that just needs people quickly. No idea how busy general lit has been.

Isn't everyone in corporate "general corporate" until they specialize? Had no idea you could declare an area of interest (Funds) within corporate before you start.

[Anonymous User]

Coming off a clerkship and wondering if it'd be myopic or pointless to apply elsewhere. Starting Jan 1 sounds pretty shitty.