Someone give me an idea of what to expect Forum

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dealsled69

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Someone give me an idea of what to expect

Post by dealsled69 » Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:13 am

Interested in BigLaw. I see so much shit about Corp law lifestyle here and wanted to know if anyone experienced can give me an average work week in terms of hours. I know billable hours requirements but it’s not 1:1. 2000 billable hours ≠ 2000 hours worked.

Also, my dad is a lawyer and works 65 hours a week. Our life is great and he spends a lot of time with us (mostly fridays and weekends), he goes to my brothers sports games, we go on vacations frequently and he isn’t consistently talking about work.

I have interned at a corporate law firm and my mentor turned close friend at the firm (equity partner) showed me some of the firms finances (me and him were both fin majors from same UG and he thought it would be good learning for me) and I saw how much some partners make. I also know my dads comp. both my dad and mentor at the firm make a lot of money and have great family lives and genuinely have passion for servicing clients. Why does everyone make it out so bad? Genuinely curious

nixy

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Re: Someone give me an idea of what to expect

Post by nixy » Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:37 am

What does "corporate" firm mean? How big is it, and where is it located?

How big is your father's firm and where is it located?

How many hours do associates in those firms work?

What does your mom do?

How much did it cost your dad and your mentor to go to law school?

Have you personally worked 65 hrs/wk, every week? That's over 9 hours every day (average). How many hours of sleep does your dad get a night?

dealsled69

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Re: Someone give me an idea of what to expect

Post by dealsled69 » Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:00 am

nixy wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:37 am
What does "corporate" firm mean? How big is it, and where is it located?

How big is your father's firm and where is it located?

How many hours do associates in those firms work?

What does your mom do?

How much did it cost your dad and your mentor to go to law school?

Have you personally worked 65 hrs/wk, every week? That's over 9 hours every day (average). How many hours of sleep does your dad get a night?
Corporate = Full-service law firm (transactional + litigation) that services large corporate clients. About 200-250 lawyers in the midwest. Went to dinner with a group of associates and learned they work 55-60 hours. It's not biglaw by any means but

Dad has his own small practice with 2 offices that he works from with assistants and secretaries but no other attorneys.

Dad took out roughly 70k of debt in today's money to go to school and idk about my mentor. He told me if I cant afford to go to school then don't. He told me his associates complain because they are up to eyeballs in debt and blame everyone else for it. They go 150k in debt to work on M&A deals they don't give a shit about.

Why is my mom relevant lol she runs one of our family businesses. I'd guess 6-7 hours a night for my dad.

nixy

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Re: Someone give me an idea of what to expect

Post by nixy » Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:28 am

So none of these jobs are NYC biglaw, right? That is what most people complaining about biglaw are talking about.

I asked about your mom b/c I was curious if she was home full time or if you were a dual income family - these things can affect how people feel about their work. Having multiple family businesses to fall back on also makes a difference.

Associates go into much more than $150k debt these days, given the price of the schools that give the the best chance to work on M&A deals they don't care about. And there are lots of reasons why people who go to law school choose to go to biglaw first (even if it's not what they do forever) - pay off debt, sure, but also to set themselves up for the jobs they really want.

I also want to come back to 65 hours a week. You say that like it's hunky dory, no big deal. Again, have you worked those hours every week? It is literally 9+ hours every day, on average. If you take one day off, it's 10+ hours (almost 11). Are you good with not having weekends off? Also, keep in mind that in most practices, an average of 65 hours a week won't necessarily be evenly distributed, so you might have a couple of days off, but you'll be then working 12 or 12+ hours on the days you do work. Does that sound like fun? Now keep in mind that your dad works for himself and gets to set his own hours. In biglaw, you're going to have a partner deciding when you work the hours you work, regardless of your plans. Is it surprising that people would complain about that?

Don't get me wrong, there are people who enjoy biglaw, and there are others who are fine with doing it to get what they need out of it. But there are a lot of reasons why people don't. There are a million threads about this on this site, if you go to the legal employment section.

dealsled69

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Re: Someone give me an idea of what to expect

Post by dealsled69 » Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:22 pm

nixy wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:28 am
So none of these jobs are NYC biglaw, right? That is what most people complaining about biglaw are talking about.

I asked about your mom b/c I was curious if she was home full time or if you were a dual income family - these things can affect how people feel about their work. Having multiple family businesses to fall back on also makes a difference.

Associates go into much more than $150k debt these days, given the price of the schools that give the the best chance to work on M&A deals they don't care about. And there are lots of reasons why people who go to law school choose to go to biglaw first (even if it's not what they do forever) - pay off debt, sure, but also to set themselves up for the jobs they really want.

I also want to come back to 65 hours a week. You say that like it's hunky dory, no big deal. Again, have you worked those hours every week? It is literally 9+ hours every day, on average. If you take one day off, it's 10+ hours (almost 11). Are you good with not having weekends off? Also, keep in mind that in most practices, an average of 65 hours a week won't necessarily be evenly distributed, so you might have a couple of days off, but you'll be then working 12 or 12+ hours on the days you do work. Does that sound like fun? Now keep in mind that your dad works for himself and gets to set his own hours. In biglaw, you're going to have a partner deciding when you work the hours you work, regardless of your plans. Is it surprising that people would complain about that?

Don't get me wrong, there are people who enjoy biglaw, and there are others who are fine with doing it to get what they need out of it. But there are a lot of reasons why people don't. There are a million threads about this on this site, if you go to the legal employment section.
All very insightful. Sorry if I sound uninformed I’m still in UG. But you’re first sentence brings up a question I’ve had. My goal is specifically Chicago Big law. Is that less competitive than NYC? Also are hours similar or less? Thanks a lot

Edit: just read ur last sentence, I will do some more research on the employment section, thanks

nixy

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Re: Someone give me an idea of what to expect

Post by nixy » Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:18 pm

Hope the other threads here will be helpful! There's a current one which is 1st year corp associates swapping stories which might be helpful, as well as one asking why people who do like the job, like the job.

Chicago can be tougher to land just because it's a smaller market than New York and they like to see connections to the city/area, but since you're in the midwest, that may not be too much of an issue. (NYC is just the biggest market and the least ties-focused - because NYC people are always ready to believe everyone wants to be in NYC ;) - so a bit easier than other parts of the country, but that doesn't mean that Chicago is out of reach at all.)

And my sense is that it's still a lot of hours, but generally not quite as bad as NY. But that's mostly anecdotal, others will have to chime in.

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