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I am planning on attending law school between 2025-2028 at a top 14 law school. I read that there really are some firms that can hire someone as in house or general counsel outside of law school, though everyone tries to impart conventional wisdom and say, do not do so without being an associate first, even if some firm does take a change on hiring someone outside of law school for in house.

If hypothetically, an individual graduates from a top 14 law school and does go straight to in house after law school, if they did work in house for 2 years from 2028-2030 with laudable performance, then by 2030 with two years under their belt in house, could they have a chance of getting hired as general counsel at a NYC investment bank - (Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, etc)

Are you asking if you could be hired as THE General Counsel of Goldman after two years in house? No.

Are you asking can you be hired in some sort of in-house role at a major investment bank after a couple of years in-house somewhere else and no other experience? Probably, but probably not the easiest path if that's your goal.

If your mid-range goal is to work in-house as a lawyer at a bulge bracket bank, then without any doubt whatsoever your short-range goal is to work as a junior associate at a major law firm (ideally DPW or some firm with a lot of bank-side representation).

(And I know there is no way you mean general counsel when you say "general counsel", but to answer: absolutely impossible you'd be general counsel of a bank 2 years out of law school)

Thanks for taking time to answer the inquiry I posed. As I was confused about the process.

I seem to recall reading that someone I know was hired as an associate at Goldman out of law school in 2000 and then was promoted to VP of the department in 2002.

So is it possible if I do graduate in 2028, I can get hired as an associate at an investment bank and then in 2 years I can get something higher ranked then associate or in-house, if that clears up the inquiry

lawschoolsplit2023 wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 19, 2023 2:37 pm

Thanks for taking time to answer the inquiry I posed. As I was confused about the process.

I seem to recall reading that someone I know was hired as an associate at Goldman out of law school in 2000 and then was promoted to VP of the department in 2002.

So is it possible if I do graduate in 2028, I can get hired as an associate at an investment bank and then in 2 years I can get something higher ranked then associate or in-house, if that clears up the inquiry

No personal experience/knowledge of this, but googling suggests that 1/3 of GS employees have the title vice president, so I don’t think it means what you think it means.

Vice president at an investment bank is a position in between associate and director. It is a mid-level position; on the investment banking side, it is typically someone who has about 6 years of experience (3 years as an analyst and 3 years as an associate). I don’t understand your question beyond that. Your friend was likely hired an a junior investment banker, not on the in-house side.

lawschoolsplit2023 wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 19, 2023 2:37 pm

Thanks for taking time to answer the inquiry I posed. As I was confused about the process.

I seem to recall reading that someone I know was hired as an associate at Goldman out of law school in 2000 and then was promoted to VP of the department in 2002.

So is it possible if I do graduate in 2028, I can get hired as an associate at an investment bank and then in 2 years I can get something higher ranked then associate or in-house, if that clears up the inquiry

An "associate" at an investment bank usually refers to the bankers (not the lawyers) if you're googling, and is roughly equivalent to like a junior associate at a law firm. (Below 'associate' is 'analyst,' and that would be more like a paralegal or staff attorney if you were comparing across industries.) Some banks refer to lawyers they have hired at the junior level as associates as well, but usually a lawyer hired so junior at an investment bank is going to have very limited upward mobility (maybe they'll make VP, but more likely someone will get hired "above" them from a law firm).

A "VP" at an investment bank usually refers to the bankers (not the lawyers, but some lawyers have VP titles), and it is really just like a midlevel. It's a fancy title, but when you read "VP at Goldman," think of it (in lawyer terms) like "5th year associate at SullCrom". Similarly, if you want to be a VP legal at Goldman, you are probably most likely to get there by first becoming a 5th year associate at SullCrom --- not by being hired at Goldman out of law school and climbing the ladder internally.

It's possible the person you know was hired as an associate *banker* out of law school (rare but not unheard of -- usually it's MBAs who get the job, but they also hire JDs sometimes), and then after 2-3 years they got promoted to VP (which would be a normal timeline for such a thing, and is just sort of a standard promotion on the banking side).

An analyst is not the equivalent to a paralegal lol. They are the most junior investment bankers. They are the same as a first year associate at a big law firm.

In terms of career timelines, analysts often just have an undergrad degree. It’s apples to oranges, but for purposes of OP’s question I think that puts them below “first year law firm associate” and solidly in “that law firm job you see people do before they have a JD”

No because associates, vps, directors, and managing directors also often only have an undergrad degree. And analysts are promoted to associate without having to get a degree after 3 years as an analyst. You can’t go from paralegal to law firm associate without a JD.

very cool, dude. For OP's purposes, I stand by everything I said above lol.

Yes, it’s possible. You just need Elon Musk to buy the IB.