Re: Typical In-House Salary Package for Junior Lawyer?
Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 4:40 pm
Thanks all for the additional insight. Don't think they are going to move up at all based on conversations with their people.
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Mind sharing what industry? A $200k base is very good (especially when you hit $100k bonus). You beat market for biglaw last year it appears.Anonymous User wrote:High CoL in the NE, big company
I do general transactional work and went in house just after finishing my 3rd year
Base is 200 k, with inflation bumps each year + more if you do well
Target bonus is ~30%, but depends on company performance. Came out to 50% last time around
No stock grants at first hire, but started getting them after a year. ~15 k worth
6% of salary * 1.667 (effectively 10%) 401(k) match
other: daycare subsidies, above market leave policy, true M-F / 9-5
Anon above. Left that a bit too rosy. That's my current base, but I'm a '13 grad, so definitely below biglaw market.Anonymous User wrote:Mind sharing what industry? A $200k base is very good (especially when you hit $100k bonus). You beat market for biglaw last year it appears.Anonymous User wrote:High CoL in the NE, big company
I do general transactional work and went in house just after finishing my 3rd year
Base is 200 k, with inflation bumps each year + more if you do well
Target bonus is ~30%, but depends on company performance. Came out to 50% last time around
No stock grants at first hire, but started getting them after a year. ~15 k worth
6% of salary * 1.667 (effectively 10%) 401(k) match
other: daycare subsidies, above market leave policy, true M-F / 9-5
Two other relevant factors are : 1) how desperate are you to get out of biglaw and 2) how long have you been searching for an in house job? I'm not putting my thumb on the scale either way. But if your misery level is high, you've been searching for a long time and you could live on $125k + bonus or whatever, then maybe it's not a bridge too far. After all, comparing your salary to what you're making in biglaw is always going to be disappointing.Anonymous User wrote:Anon from above with 125k base offer...think I am going to pass for now. It sounds like as a 4-5th year I should be closer to 150k-175k base + bonus.
congrats! you win at life (seriously). what do you do, if you don't mind me asking? general corporate stuff, or something more specialized?Anonymous User wrote:Currently a third year at a public, non-F500 company. Went in house straight out of school. Earning 130k base, 20% bonus, 15k annual equity (none of it will have vested when I depart). I moved my way up through a series of lucky moves after coming in at 100k base, which was the trade off for going straight in house.
Moving next month to a similar role at a F250 just outside a major city. 180k base, 15-20% individual and company performance based target bonus, best retirement matching I've seen (it's a unique, specific plan so I won't post numbers on it), 25k signing bonus, and 75k in RSUs vesting 25k/yr.
I'm the anon from above. General corporate but in a relatively specialized market (think biotech/pharma/med device type industry). Also handle a lot of business and operational matters outside of usual "legal work" and I still am not sure I'm a real attorney, so take my stats for what they're worth.dabigchina wrote:congrats! you win at life (seriously). what do you do, if you don't mind me asking? general corporate stuff, or something more specialized?Anonymous User wrote:Currently a third year at a public, non-F500 company. Went in house straight out of school. Earning 130k base, 20% bonus, 15k annual equity (none of it will have vested when I depart). I moved my way up through a series of lucky moves after coming in at 100k base, which was the trade off for going straight in house.
Moving next month to a similar role at a F250 just outside a major city. 180k base, 15-20% individual and company performance based target bonus, best retirement matching I've seen (it's a unique, specific plan so I won't post numbers on it), 25k signing bonus, and 75k in RSUs vesting 25k/yr.
Interesting. I had always been under the impression that pharma did not offer competitive salaries for attorneys, so this is refreshing to hear. The business/operational component of your job is especially appealing; any advice for someone looking to get a position that offers this kind of varied, business level work?pleapeddler wrote:I'm the anon from above. General corporate but in a relatively specialized market (think biotech/pharma/med device type industry). Also handle a lot of business and operational matters outside of usual "legal work" and I still am not sure I'm a real attorney, so take my stats for what they're worth.dabigchina wrote:congrats! you win at life (seriously). what do you do, if you don't mind me asking? general corporate stuff, or something more specialized?Anonymous User wrote:Currently a third year at a public, non-F500 company. Went in house straight out of school. Earning 130k base, 20% bonus, 15k annual equity (none of it will have vested when I depart). I moved my way up through a series of lucky moves after coming in at 100k base, which was the trade off for going straight in house.
Moving next month to a similar role at a F250 just outside a major city. 180k base, 15-20% individual and company performance based target bonus, best retirement matching I've seen (it's a unique, specific plan so I won't post numbers on it), 25k signing bonus, and 75k in RSUs vesting 25k/yr.
If you don't care at all about work/life balance, then yeah, I agree. I think most juniors who want to go in house don't care about making partner and definitely aren't thinking about becoming GC of JP Morgan.veers wrote:
Does kind of make you wonder if there is any alternative to biglaw that can even come close to partner level comp, and if the best bet might just be toughing it out in biglaw.
Yeah. There are plenty of threads about big law. This one really is more about people who probably do not want to do big law long term. If you only look at the money in a vacuum then obviously big law is a better choice and this is a strange discussion.dabigchina wrote:If you don't care at all about work/life balance, then yeah, I agree. I think most juniors who want to go in house don't care about making partner and definitely aren't thinking about becoming GC of JP Morgan.veers wrote:
Does kind of make you wonder if there is any alternative to biglaw that can even come close to partner level comp, and if the best bet might just be toughing it out in biglaw.
oblig.lawl.ref wrote:Yeah. There are plenty of threads about big law. This one really is more about people who probably do not want to do big law long term. If you only look at the money in a vacuum then obviously big law is a better choice and this is a strange discussion.dabigchina wrote:If you don't care at all about work/life balance, then yeah, I agree. I think most juniors who want to go in house don't care about making partner and definitely aren't thinking about becoming GC of JP Morgan.veers wrote:
Does kind of make you wonder if there is any alternative to biglaw that can even come close to partner level comp, and if the best bet might just be toughing it out in biglaw.
I think you are missing the point - people who are worried about how much money they will make if they put their heart and soul into their jobs in 5-10 years arent moving in house. Key consideration for them is life style and work life balance while making reasonable amount of moneyveers wrote:The point is that the key focus isn't necessarily on your initial comp but on where your comp is likely to be in 2 years, in 5 years, and in 10 years if you stick around.
Going to an asset manager as a 5th year for $350k all in may seem like a reasonable move from biglaw, but if 10 years later you are now making $450k (while hardly having an exciting job, or an especially good work/life balance) while your old colleagues in biglaw are making $1mm+ and the business side people at your asset manager are also making $1mm+, and you have no realistic chance at ever even eclipsing biglaw senior associate pay, that is going to be a rough pill to swallow.
One of the key considerations in going in house should really be "If I really put my heart and soul into this gig how much money can I be making in 5 or 10 years?" That would definitely lean towards employers, like investment banks or brand name PE funds, that have a history of promoting up in-house counsel and ultimately paying them a lot more $$$.
oblig.lawl.ref wrote:Yeah. There are plenty of threads about big law. This one really is more about people who probably do not want to do big law long term. If you only look at the money in a vacuum then obviously big law is a better choice and this is a strange discussion.dabigchina wrote:If you don't care at all about work/life balance, then yeah, I agree. I think most juniors who want to go in house don't care about making partner and definitely aren't thinking about becoming GC of JP Morgan.veers wrote:
Does kind of make you wonder if there is any alternative to biglaw that can even come close to partner level comp, and if the best bet might just be toughing it out in biglaw.
Agreed, if all you care about is having the largest bank account you can by 50, then you should grind out biglaw until then. If you don't make partner you can always lateral to another shop as counsel or partner (or even staying a senior associate), make tons of money. The vast majority of partners at my old firm still didn't seem happy...even with the second (or third) wife, huge house and sweet cars. I can't imagine why!spyke123 wrote:I think you are missing the point - people who are worried about how much money they will make if they put their heart and soul into their jobs in 5-10 years arent moving in house. Key consideration for them is life style and work life balance while making reasonable amount of moneyveers wrote:The point is that the key focus isn't necessarily on your initial comp but on where your comp is likely to be in 2 years, in 5 years, and in 10 years if you stick around.
Going to an asset manager as a 5th year for $350k all in may seem like a reasonable move from biglaw, but if 10 years later you are now making $450k (while hardly having an exciting job, or an especially good work/life balance) while your old colleagues in biglaw are making $1mm+ and the business side people at your asset manager are also making $1mm+, and you have no realistic chance at ever even eclipsing biglaw senior associate pay, that is going to be a rough pill to swallow.
One of the key considerations in going in house should really be "If I really put my heart and soul into this gig how much money can I be making in 5 or 10 years?" That would definitely lean towards employers, like investment banks or brand name PE funds, that have a history of promoting up in-house counsel and ultimately paying them a lot more $$$.
oblig.lawl.ref wrote:Yeah. There are plenty of threads about big law. This one really is more about people who probably do not want to do big law long term. If you only look at the money in a vacuum then obviously big law is a better choice and this is a strange discussion.dabigchina wrote:If you don't care at all about work/life balance, then yeah, I agree. I think most juniors who want to go in house don't care about making partner and definitely aren't thinking about becoming GC of JP Morgan.veers wrote:
Does kind of make you wonder if there is any alternative to biglaw that can even come close to partner level comp, and if the best bet might just be toughing it out in biglaw.
No. 401K match, yes. But typically ESPP is a small discount on the stock. Unless they offer some greater benefit to it.Anonymous User wrote:Do people usually include ESPP when considering their all in package? I'm looking at a position that will offer participation in an ESPP and I'm wondering if that should mvoe the needle at all?
Pretty good chances. They aren’t bringing you in for nothing. Relax dont and be awkward good luckAnonymous User wrote:Do in house positions typically have good conversion rates once you make it to the final interview stage? I have an onsite for my dream position later this week. I'd hate to count my chickens before they hatch, but I want to know how excited I should be...
Very anecdotal but I think many ESPPs are pretty limited in value. 20% off stock for the first $5k or whatever isn't going to really move the needle much. But 50% off the first $20k is basically a free $10k, assuming your stock price is at least relatively stable.Anonymous User wrote:Do people usually include ESPP when considering their all in package? I'm looking at a position that will offer participation in an ESPP and I'm wondering if that should mvoe the needle at all?