Slightly Below Median - Advice for pre-OCI Forum

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Slightly Below Median - Advice for pre-OCI

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Apr 17, 2022 8:13 pm

I'm slightly below median at a T7 (based on 1L fall semester grades only). Strong work experience.
I've networked with couple of V10 firms and got an automatic screener-->CB from STB.
How should I go about with pre-OCI? No idea how my spring semester grades will fare, but considering that my fall grades aren't great, should I go ahead and do pre-OCI? Would I have better chances with pre-OCI firms with those that I've already networked with and established good relationships with?

Anonymous User
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Re: Slightly Below Median - Advice for pre-OCI

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Apr 17, 2022 10:35 pm

what is a T7

Anonymous User
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Re: Slightly Below Median - Advice for pre-OCI

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Apr 17, 2022 10:52 pm

best strategy is to put all your energy into finals and not think about this again until after that

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Re: Slightly Below Median - Advice for pre-OCI

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Apr 17, 2022 10:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 8:13 pm
I'm slightly below median at a T7 (based on 1L fall semester grades only). Strong work experience.
I've networked with couple of V10 firms and got an automatic screener-->CB from STB.
How should I go about with pre-OCI? No idea how my spring semester grades will fare, but considering that my fall grades aren't great, should I go ahead and do pre-OCI? Would I have better chances with pre-OCI firms with those that I've already networked with and established good relationships with?
STB wouldn't give you a CB if they're not interested in you, and assuming you're at Penn, I think you're in good shape.
I would wait and try to get your grades up if you want CSM/S&C/DPW.

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Re: Slightly Below Median - Advice for pre-OCI

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Apr 17, 2022 11:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 10:58 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 8:13 pm
I'm slightly below median at a T7 (based on 1L fall semester grades only). Strong work experience.
I've networked with couple of V10 firms and got an automatic screener-->CB from STB.
How should I go about with pre-OCI? No idea how my spring semester grades will fare, but considering that my fall grades aren't great, should I go ahead and do pre-OCI? Would I have better chances with pre-OCI firms with those that I've already networked with and established good relationships with?
STB wouldn't give you a CB if they're not interested in you, and assuming you're at Penn, I think you're in good shape.
I would wait and try to get your grades up if you want CSM/S&C/DPW.
Subtle DPW slip.

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Anonymous User
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Re: Slightly Below Median - Advice for pre-OCI

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 10:35 pm
what is a T7
Penn's way of trying to play with the big boys and distinguishing its cooler, jocky older brother Virginia. To be fair, in this case Penn may have a slight leg up on the NYC legal market.

+1 on being careful with the more grade selective firms. Definitely schmooze at any events, and do reach out if you already have an in with someone, but the best way to increase your odds would be a swing in the right direction during the spring semester. The last thing you want is to be placed on the "no hire" list simply based on your fall grades. If your grades still aren't stellar after spring semester, then it may be worth turning up the networking game.

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Re: Slightly Below Median - Advice for pre-OCI

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:11 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:00 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 10:35 pm
what is a T7
Penn's way of trying to play with the big boys and distinguishing its cooler, jocky older brother Virginia. To be fair, in this case Penn may have a slight leg up on the NYC legal market.
T7 = NYU these days

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Re: Slightly Below Median - Advice for pre-OCI

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:34 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:11 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:00 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 10:35 pm
what is a T7
Penn's way of trying to play with the big boys and distinguishing its cooler, jocky older brother Virginia. To be fair, in this case Penn may have a slight leg up on the NYC legal market.
T7 = NYU these days
An NYU student would never call themselves T7 just like GULC students will always say T14. Only Penn students care about the difference between T7 vs. MVPB/T10. OP back me up.

Anonymous User
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Re: Slightly Below Median - Advice for pre-OCI

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:25 am

I'm sure someone will disagree with this advice, but what do you have to lose?

For me, I was T20 and below median (maybe around median) but not on a journal when it came time for OCI. I identified the firms I was interested in and didn't get an OCI interview. When they were on campus I waited for a break in their interview schedule and stopped by their OCI room with resume in hand (dressed for an interview and all) and dropped off my resume to the interviewing attorneys. I had a short elevator speech about myself any why I was interested in their firm, as well as the specific office (w/in the parameters of what offices they were interviewing for). Of the 5 firms I did this with, I received a call/email asking me to swing by when they had an opening at 4 of them. Ended up getting a call back for 3 and offer at all 3. Summered at one of these, which I've been at now for over 5 years. Of course, this is anecdotal from some internet stranger, but if you don't get the OCI interviews where you want give this a shot.

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Anonymous User
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Re: Slightly Below Median - Advice for pre-OCI

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:46 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:34 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:11 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:00 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 10:35 pm
what is a T7
Penn's way of trying to play with the big boys and distinguishing its cooler, jocky older brother Virginia. To be fair, in this case Penn may have a slight leg up on the NYC legal market.
T7 = NYU these days
An NYU student would never call themselves T7 just like GULC students will always say T14. Only Penn students care about the difference between T7 vs. MVPB/T10. OP back me up.
You might've been right in past years, but these days Penn students have no reason to draw the distinction. You have the direction wrong. GULC calls itself t14 when they drop to 15. Why would Penn call itself T7 when they're T6? OP is at TTT7 NYU

Anonymous User
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Re: Slightly Below Median - Advice for pre-OCI

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:55 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:46 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:34 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:11 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:00 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 10:35 pm
what is a T7
Penn's way of trying to play with the big boys and distinguishing its cooler, jocky older brother Virginia. To be fair, in this case Penn may have a slight leg up on the NYC legal market.
T7 = NYU these days
An NYU student would never call themselves T7 just like GULC students will always say T14. Only Penn students care about the difference between T7 vs. MVPB/T10. OP back me up.
You might've been right in past years, but these days Penn students have no reason to draw the distinction. You have the direction wrong. GULC calls itself t14 when they drop to 15. Why would Penn call itself T7 when they're T6? OP is at TTT7 NYU
Your own evidence proves me right. NYU would never use T7 over T6 because, despite being #7 now, they still consider themselves T6. That's exactly like GULC at 15 still thinking it was a T14. No rightminded NYU student would ever start using T7 simply because USNWR decided to shake things up for one year.

In contrast, a Penn student who knows that YHS and CCN advice isn't necessarily applicable to them but still wants to be above the MVPB riffraff would have absolutely used the T7 distinction.

Anonymous User
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Re: Slightly Below Median - Advice for pre-OCI

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:35 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:55 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:46 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:34 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:11 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:00 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 10:35 pm
what is a T7
Penn's way of trying to play with the big boys and distinguishing its cooler, jocky older brother Virginia. To be fair, in this case Penn may have a slight leg up on the NYC legal market.
T7 = NYU these days
An NYU student would never call themselves T7 just like GULC students will always say T14. Only Penn students care about the difference between T7 vs. MVPB/T10. OP back me up.
You might've been right in past years, but these days Penn students have no reason to draw the distinction. You have the direction wrong. GULC calls itself t14 when they drop to 15. Why would Penn call itself T7 when they're T6? OP is at TTT7 NYU
Your own evidence proves me right. NYU would never use T7 over T6 because, despite being #7 now, they still consider themselves T6. That's exactly like GULC at 15 still thinking it was a T14. No rightminded NYU student would ever start using T7 simply because USNWR decided to shake things up for one year.

In contrast, a Penn student who knows that YHS and CCN advice isn't necessarily applicable to them but still wants to be above the MVPB riffraff would have absolutely used the T7 distinction.
Eh. This is a question of individual vs group conduct. My guess is that relatively more at Penn would say T6 than GULC would say T14 (after dropping to 15). The former is descriptively correct whereas the latter is a preftige loser move. And I assume the same dynamic (tendency towards honesty over puffery) applies at NYU.

OP. Please weigh in on this pressing debate!

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Slightly Below Median - Advice for pre-OCI

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:38 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:35 am

Eh. This is a question of individual vs group conduct. My guess is that relatively more at Penn would say T6 than GULC would say T14 (after dropping to 15). The former is descriptively correct whereas the latter is a preftige loser move. And I assume the same dynamic (tendency towards honesty over puffery) applies at NYU.

OP. Please weigh in on this pressing debate!
Do you know any NYU lawyers?

Anyway, I think the honest would ignore one random USNWR blip (GULC at 15, Penn at T6, NYU at T7) and just go with the age-old T3, T6, T10, T14 distinctions. OP we need you!

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Re: Slightly Below Median - Advice for pre-OCI

Post by jotarokujo » Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:35 am

Eh. This is a question of individual vs group conduct. My guess is that relatively more at Penn would say T6 than GULC would say T14 (after dropping to 15). The former is descriptively correct whereas the latter is a preftige loser move. And I assume the same dynamic (tendency towards honesty over puffery) applies at NYU.

OP. Please weigh in on this pressing debate!
i just don't think peopel would actually change what they call penn based on one year of us news. i also vote that op is at penn!

jdoeman1234567

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Re: Slightly Below Median - Advice for pre-OCI

Post by jdoeman1234567 » Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 8:13 pm
I'm slightly below median at a T7 (based on 1L fall semester grades only). Strong work experience.
I've networked with couple of V10 firms and got an automatic screener-->CB from STB.
How should I go about with pre-OCI? No idea how my spring semester grades will fare, but considering that my fall grades aren't great, should I go ahead and do pre-OCI? Would I have better chances with pre-OCI firms with those that I've already networked with and established good relationships with?
Pre-OCI is completely unnecessary and you are much better off focusing exclusively on finals at this point. If by "strong work experience" you mean IB/Consulting, then anywhere around median at a T10 will easily land you V10 offers. Corporate Finance and public accounting experience also seem to give people a pretty nice boost. Wachtell is the only V10 that is actually off limits for you barring some extreme connection. I also wouldn't target S&C or Cravath either but you probably won't be an auto-ding at those firms.

Anonymous User
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Re: Slightly Below Median - Advice for pre-OCI

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:16 pm

OP here - To end the debate, I am not at NYU.
Also, thanks for all the advice above. Will definitely be focusing on finals for now. Thanks all!!

Anonymous User
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Re: Slightly Below Median - Advice for pre-OCI

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 11:35 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 10:58 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 8:13 pm
I'm slightly below median at a T7 (based on 1L fall semester grades only). Strong work experience.
I've networked with couple of V10 firms and got an automatic screener-->CB from STB.
How should I go about with pre-OCI? No idea how my spring semester grades will fare, but considering that my fall grades aren't great, should I go ahead and do pre-OCI? Would I have better chances with pre-OCI firms with those that I've already networked with and established good relationships with?
STB wouldn't give you a CB if they're not interested in you, and assuming you're at Penn, I think you're in good shape.
I would wait and try to get your grades up if you want CSM/S&C/DPW.
Subtle DPW slip.
DPW tends to be more grade selective than STB, although not to the same degree as CSM/S&C.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428107
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Slightly Below Median - Advice for pre-OCI

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:34 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:11 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:00 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 10:35 pm
what is a T7
Penn's way of trying to play with the big boys and distinguishing its cooler, jocky older brother Virginia. To be fair, in this case Penn may have a slight leg up on the NYC legal market.
T7 = NYU these days
As an NYU student would never call themselves T7 just like GULC students will always say T14. Only Penn students care about the difference between T7 vs. MVPB/T10. OP back me up.
100%. As an NYU alum, I still cling to the notion that NYU is a Top 4 school, which it in fact was in the glorious year of 2008, when it was ranked right behind HYS and above Columbia, Chicago, and Penn!

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