Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice Forum
- Anaconda
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice
My problem is that I can't resist grading my PT timed before doing it again untimed. Grrr
- jr1886
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- Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:24 am
Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice
I suspect doing this will bias the way you approach the untimed part. Just try to resist the temptationAnaconda wrote:My problem is that I can't resist grading my PT timed before doing it again untimed. Grrr
- dub
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- Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 9:05 pm
Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice
+1jr1886 wrote:I suspect doing this will bias the way you approach the untimed part. Just try to resist the temptationAnaconda wrote:My problem is that I can't resist grading my PT timed before doing it again untimed. Grrr
- AverageTutoring
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice
What benefit do you feel you're gaining from taking tests twice: timed and untimed?Anaconda wrote:My problem is that I can't resist grading my PT timed before doing it again untimed. Grrr
Last edited by AverageTutoring on Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice
umm...read the last five pages of the thread?AverageTutoring wrote:What benefit do you fell you're gaining from taking tests twice: timed and untimed?Anaconda wrote:My problem is that I can't resist grading my PT timed before doing it again untimed. Grrr
in short: a thorough thorough review.
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- AverageTutoring
- Posts: 297
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice
I'm asking for Anaconda's view, not for the general perception on the matter. If he answered this question for himself in a prior post then touche but I am simply to lazy to backread 5 pages.HOV wrote:umm...read the last five pages of the thread?AverageTutoring wrote:What benefit do you fell you're gaining from taking tests twice: timed and untimed?Anaconda wrote:My problem is that I can't resist grading my PT timed before doing it again untimed. Grrr
in short: a thorough thorough review.
I don't think Anaconda, specifically, should be taking untimed tests so I am asking what benefit he personally derives from it.
- Anaconda
- Posts: 605
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice
Why don't you think i should be using this strategy. That's an absurd statement...
AverageTutoring wrote:I'm asking for Anaconda's view, not for the general perception on the matter. If he answered this question for himself in a prior post then touche but I am simply to lazy to backread 5 pages.HOV wrote:umm...read the last five pages of the thread?AverageTutoring wrote:What benefit do you fell you're gaining from taking tests twice: timed and untimed?Anaconda wrote:My problem is that I can't resist grading my PT timed before doing it again untimed. Grrr
in short: a thorough thorough review.
I don't think Anaconda, specifically, should be taking untimed tests so I am asking what benefit he personally derives from it.
- AverageTutoring
- Posts: 297
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:18 pm
Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice
I think your time could be better spent on other strategies. Taking a PT untimed is essentially the equivalent of reviewing a PT for a very extended period of time: an inefficient allocation of your time, in my opinion.Anaconda wrote:Why don't you think i should be using this strategy. That's an absurd statement...
What I would be focusing on if I was you is breaking down the LSAT into its three components: LG, LR and RC. I would concentrate on individual sections until you felt comfortable with the material. Making Logic Games your bitch would be my first stop.
To be honest, I think taking untimed PTs much like reviewing every question right or wrong on a PT, is a unholy waste of time (for anyone).
But hey, if it's helping far be it for me to tell you differently.
Good luck with your prep!
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice
I feel reviewing right answers are a waste of time. Review wrong answers that you had during a timed PT is much more beneficial as you get to see where you went wrong during those 1-2 minutes that made you make the wrong choice. Many people during their practice forget about that timed aspect of the test.AverageTutoring wrote:I think your time could be better spent on other strategies. Taking a PT untimed is essentially the equivalent of reviewing a PT for a very extended period of time: an inefficient allocation of your time, in my opinion.Anaconda wrote:Why don't you think i should be using this strategy. That's an absurd statement...
What I would be focusing on if I was you is breaking down the LSAT into its three components: LG, LR and RC. I would concentrate on individual sections until you felt comfortable with the material. Making Logic Games your bitch would be my first stop.
To be honest, I think taking untimed PTs much like reviewing every question right or wrong on a PT, is a unholy waste of time (for anyone).
But hey, if it's helping far be it for me to tell you differently.
Good luck with your prep!
I understand making LG your bitch, because that's the easiest portion to study for. However, how would you go about LR, and better yet, how would you go about RC, without going through the PTs? I never found doing drills all that helpful, because I would fall into a rhythm just doing a set of Weakens or Assumption questions.
Going through wrong answers is still a very good way to study.
- Day2Daze
- Posts: 65
- Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:18 am
Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice
This idea is fuckin brilliant! Although I would say only use this method once youve finished both the Bibles. Gonna try it in a bit...if I ever stop procrastinating. Thankss
- Anaconda
- Posts: 605
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice
I don't understand why you first singled me out for using SoS's strategy and now you're assuming that this is a complete waste of time despite several people including the OP attesting to how effective it is.
Since when is reviewing questions you get right "wasting your time?" Any LSAT professional says to review questions you get right, especially ones you weren't 100% sure on. Sure, you can get a -0 on a LR section, but how many of those were just luck because you misread or didn't understand a stimulus and/or every answer choice?
Re-taking the test untimed allows you to clearly see what questions you misread, and allows you to attack LGs from different perspectives. Even if you get all the LGs right, maybe on your second attempt you discover a new inference and destroy that particular game. On RC you can see the points in the passage you didn't internalize and how the questions and answer choices fooled you to select a wrong answer. Sure, you can get a -0 on an in-out game. You don't review it. How is that going to help you out when you see an ever harder in-out game in June? You'll regret not going over that game because you were so "confident" in your abilities. Just because you get one particular question/game right doesn't mean you'll get another question/game right on your next test of very similar difficulty, type, and approach.
You seem to be making largely incorrect assumptions without considering the possible benefits of Stanley Otto Swift's strategy, and you're making outrageous claims like saying reviewing questions on a PT right or wrong "is an unholy waste of time."
Since when is reviewing questions you get right "wasting your time?" Any LSAT professional says to review questions you get right, especially ones you weren't 100% sure on. Sure, you can get a -0 on a LR section, but how many of those were just luck because you misread or didn't understand a stimulus and/or every answer choice?
Re-taking the test untimed allows you to clearly see what questions you misread, and allows you to attack LGs from different perspectives. Even if you get all the LGs right, maybe on your second attempt you discover a new inference and destroy that particular game. On RC you can see the points in the passage you didn't internalize and how the questions and answer choices fooled you to select a wrong answer. Sure, you can get a -0 on an in-out game. You don't review it. How is that going to help you out when you see an ever harder in-out game in June? You'll regret not going over that game because you were so "confident" in your abilities. Just because you get one particular question/game right doesn't mean you'll get another question/game right on your next test of very similar difficulty, type, and approach.
You seem to be making largely incorrect assumptions without considering the possible benefits of Stanley Otto Swift's strategy, and you're making outrageous claims like saying reviewing questions on a PT right or wrong "is an unholy waste of time."
AverageTutoring wrote:I think your time could be better spent on other strategies. Taking a PT untimed is essentially the equivalent of reviewing a PT for a very extended period of time: an inefficient allocation of your time, in my opinion.Anaconda wrote:Why don't you think i should be using this strategy. That's an absurd statement...
What I would be focusing on if I was you is breaking down the LSAT into its three components: LG, LR and RC. I would concentrate on individual sections until you felt comfortable with the material. Making Logic Games your bitch would be my first stop.
To be honest, I think taking untimed PTs much like reviewing every question right or wrong on a PT, is a unholy waste of time (for anyone).
But hey, if it's helping far be it for me to tell you differently.
Good luck with your prep!
- GoldenGloves
- Posts: 378
- Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:02 pm
Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice
I just started with this strategy today & feel great about it. Not viewing answers before untimed review is crucial to the process. Plus, you can't view answers right after taking the real test anyway.
- downing
- Posts: 278
- Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:03 am
Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice
I sort of started SOS's strategy. I took PT24 yesterday, timed at 33mins per section and received a 166. I had some work to do so I didn't take it untimed yet, and I checked my answers (which I know you aren't supposed to do!).
For now I'm redoing each section untimed whenever I have some free time to spare. I'm quite happy about being able to leave my job in a week and half. When my days become free of teaching Kindergarteners, I'll be doing this SOS stuff hardcore. HAHAHAHA.
For now I'm redoing each section untimed whenever I have some free time to spare. I'm quite happy about being able to leave my job in a week and half. When my days become free of teaching Kindergarteners, I'll be doing this SOS stuff hardcore. HAHAHAHA.
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice
Are you too lazy to tack on that extra "o" as well?AverageTutoring wrote: but I am simply to lazy to backread 5 pages.
I don't think Anaconda, specifically, should be taking untimed tests so I am asking what benefit he personally derives from it.
I have no idea why someone would take your advice when you seem to think you know someone simply based on faulty assumptions you have made about them.
- Anaconda
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice
Well, he's not called AverageTutoring for nothing.blink wrote:Are you too lazy to tack on that extra "o" as well?AverageTutoring wrote: but I am simply to lazy to backread 5 pages.
I don't think Anaconda, specifically, should be taking untimed tests so I am asking what benefit he personally derives from it.
I have no idea why someone would take your advice when you seem to think you know someone simply based on faulty assumptions you have made about them.
- Gemini
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice
Anaconda wrote:Well, he's not called AverageTutoring for nothing.blink wrote:Are you too lazy to tack on that extra "o" as well?AverageTutoring wrote: but I am simply to lazy to backread 5 pages.
I don't think Anaconda, specifically, should be taking untimed tests so I am asking what benefit he personally derives from it.
I have no idea why someone would take your advice when you seem to think you know someone simply based on faulty assumptions you have made about them.
Watch out, Anaconda, you have a stalker!
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice
Chill guys! From what I have seen in his other posts, AT seems to know his stuff. Maybe his desire to help came across as a little harsh on the internet.
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice
I think one problem with this method is that you end up spending too much time reviewing/risk burning out. If you have 5 months left for the lsat, I think this is a great way to study. But I also think it might be even more beneficial to those taking the october test to do a PT, score it, and go over whatever questions they missed/weren't sure about thoroughly.
- vttran9
- Posts: 49
- Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 3:30 pm
Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice
Tried this method on PT 30 today and LOVED IT.
When you have to answer a question twice without knowing the answer under different conditions, you get a better glimpse of how you approached the question and how you got it wrong.
When you have to answer a question twice without knowing the answer under different conditions, you get a better glimpse of how you approached the question and how you got it wrong.
- downing
- Posts: 278
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice
hahaha, burnout is for the weak!gerbal wrote:I think one problem with this method is that you end up spending too much time reviewing/risk burning out. If you have 5 months left for the lsat, I think this is a great way to study. But I also think it might be even more beneficial to those taking the october test to do a PT, score it, and go over whatever questions they missed/weren't sure about thoroughly.
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice
nStiver wrote:Chill guys! From what I have seen in his other posts, AT seems to know his stuff. Maybe his desire to help came across as a little harsh on the internet.
I hate you purely because of your 'tar.
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- FlanAl
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice
just bumping for reference
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice
I don't know about you guys, but this method is kick ass. I tried it for the first time Sunday and got a 159 timed and a 174 untimed. I'd like you guys to comment on the review of wrong answers. Now for Logic Games, I find understanding my LG mistakes and eliminating them is easy (relative to LR & RC mistakes). With LGs there are definitely right answers. Either something "Can be True" or it cannot. Either something "Must be True" or it cannot. Getting used to patterns in inference making and efficient diagramming will help you see these things.
However, in the ungodly amount of time that I spent reviewing my performance the other day by re-taking the test untimed, I began to question how exactly review of the answers will make me better for the next time ...
Now hear me out before someone jumps my ass and tells me I'm an idiot! Things get really feisty on these boards sometimes lol ... But really, when I review some questions in LR and certain types of RC questions (like those damn which of the following would best be the beginning of the next paragraph -- like wtf it's a new paragraph! The conventions of composition say that you can transition into any topic you like!), it seems to me that there is an arbitrariness to some of the answers that is just frustrating. So I feel like reviewing the answers helps me understand AFTER THE FACT how some nutty psychometrician at LSAC was approaching an argument from some very obscure angle for one question, and I can honestly say that I understand why an answer was right "THAT TIME," but how do some of you take away functional techniques or considerations that you can use to get LR or stupid RC questions right "NEXT TIME"????
I find that sometimes all I can take away from some questions is ... "Read more critically" which really means "Hope that next time you read a question you will think really fucked up like the guy that wrote it" I know review is important, and I know I will progress if I commit to substantive review. It just doesn't always feel substantive. Also, I've only taken 3 prep tests in my life, do you think that my confused perception from where the correctness and incorrectness of answers are coming from will be resolved by just seeing more questions? I know the whole commitment to the power of repetition well as a former econ major who relied on it to master tons of algebra and 3 calculus classes, but again math answers have the similar finite quality of Logic games.
Your insight is appreciated TLS
However, in the ungodly amount of time that I spent reviewing my performance the other day by re-taking the test untimed, I began to question how exactly review of the answers will make me better for the next time ...
Now hear me out before someone jumps my ass and tells me I'm an idiot! Things get really feisty on these boards sometimes lol ... But really, when I review some questions in LR and certain types of RC questions (like those damn which of the following would best be the beginning of the next paragraph -- like wtf it's a new paragraph! The conventions of composition say that you can transition into any topic you like!), it seems to me that there is an arbitrariness to some of the answers that is just frustrating. So I feel like reviewing the answers helps me understand AFTER THE FACT how some nutty psychometrician at LSAC was approaching an argument from some very obscure angle for one question, and I can honestly say that I understand why an answer was right "THAT TIME," but how do some of you take away functional techniques or considerations that you can use to get LR or stupid RC questions right "NEXT TIME"????
I find that sometimes all I can take away from some questions is ... "Read more critically" which really means "Hope that next time you read a question you will think really fucked up like the guy that wrote it" I know review is important, and I know I will progress if I commit to substantive review. It just doesn't always feel substantive. Also, I've only taken 3 prep tests in my life, do you think that my confused perception from where the correctness and incorrectness of answers are coming from will be resolved by just seeing more questions? I know the whole commitment to the power of repetition well as a former econ major who relied on it to master tons of algebra and 3 calculus classes, but again math answers have the similar finite quality of Logic games.
Your insight is appreciated TLS
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice
This is interesting except for the part where I need two copies of every test. I think I'll try it. I'll just have to spend $200 buying PrepTests off of cambridgeLSAT.
- Anaconda
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice
It's even more if you buy hardcopies of every PT.motiontodismiss wrote:This is interesting except for the part where I need two copies of every test. I think I'll try it. I'll just have to spend $200 buying PrepTests off of cambridgeLSAT.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
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