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Asking for a friend, huh?

Those numbers are very impressive.
Alas, there is no predictable time frame for obtaining a desired score.
It is definitely a POSSIBILITY, and with those materials, he/she is certainly going in the right direction.

How much did he have to work for the 2270, if at all? Regardless, he should be able to hit 173.

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Yeah you can expect to hit a 173... But as has been said hundreds of times of here, there is no estimate. How could someone possibly tell you that? I have a 3.92 GPA, (albeit from a state school, not an Ivy) got a ~2200 on the SAT and was Salutatorian at my high school. I've been studying for 2.5 months and testing the in the 160s. A buddy of mine who was an average high school student went to community college and graduated with a 3.0 and went on to score a 169 after 3 months of prep. So the point being that previous credentials don't really matter in this regard.

The good news is they matter when I calculate my opinion of what you are capable of scoring. So I definitely think if you can manage a 3.85 from an Ivy there is no reason I can't think of why you can't score a 173+ Again, no one can even give you any useful estimate of how long it will take.

What would be more useful would be a diagnostic and an idea of how much you can study per day....

Deardevil wrote:Asking for a friend, huh?

Those numbers are very impressive.
Alas, there is no predictable time frame for obtaining a desired score.
It is definitely a POSSIBILITY, and with those materials, he/she is certainly going in the right direction.

Haha trust me, if I had his numbers, I'd be showing them off proudly (and not be "asking for a friend")

That's what I told him too, but he wanted to know because he wanted an idea of how much time he would need (6 months? 1 year?) just to plan out his life and stuff.

HYPSM wrote:

Deardevil wrote:Asking for a friend, huh?

Those numbers are very impressive.
Alas, there is no predictable time frame for obtaining a desired score.
It is definitely a POSSIBILITY, and with those materials, he/she is certainly going in the right direction.

Haha trust me, if I had his numbers, I'd be showing them off proudly (and not be "asking for a friend")

That's what I told him too, but he wanted to know because he wanted an idea of how much time he would need (6 months? 1 year?) just to plan out his life and stuff.

I'd expect him to hit 173 within 5 PTs.

Hikikomorist wrote:How much did he have to work for the 2270, if at all? Regardless, he should be able to hit 173.

I just asked him: he says he studied hard for it for like 4-5 months. Definitely not dumb.

Just to elaborate, he said CR was the main reason he studied that long, but he ended up with a 750 in the end.

Hikikomorist wrote:

HYPSM wrote:

Deardevil wrote:Asking for a friend, huh?

Those numbers are very impressive.
Alas, there is no predictable time frame for obtaining a desired score.
It is definitely a POSSIBILITY, and with those materials, he/she is certainly going in the right direction.

Haha trust me, if I had his numbers, I'd be showing them off proudly (and not be "asking for a friend")

That's what I told him too, but he wanted to know because he wanted an idea of how much time he would need (6 months? 1 year?) just to plan out his life and stuff.

I'd expect him to hit 173 within 5 PTs.

I'm sure he'll be very happy when I tell him that, but at the same time, I wonder if he'd be able to score that high after only 5 PTs!!

Not sure how strong the correlation between SAT + College GPA and LSAT score is, but I reckon he should be able to do well. I scored a 2360 on the SAT, have a 3.99 from an HYP and with the right prep materials was able to score a 177. He can probably do likewise.

I think a 173 is realistic for you. From your stats you seem to have enough intelligence to do well and probably a great work-ethic to go with it, which for most, you need the package.

I come from a less impressive statistical background, but have scored 700+ on the GMAT and am currently studying LSAT with a similar goal as you...

Of course there are some people who don't need to study much and can get a baller score, but in most instances, it doesn't happen that easy. This test is like no other. On the GMAT forums/ here and from my personal experience, a more gradual timeline with consistent focus on the exam seems to be the best way for YOU to maximize what you are capable of scoring. seems to be like 3-5 months is a very friendly time frame. You may need more...you may need less.. you don't know what you don't know until you go for it. You also have to keep in mind some of your goals: How much time do you have to dedicate to your study? What cycle do you want to apply in? etc. No one truly has the ability to fall into LSAT Abyss for years until they score a 180 so you have to give yourself a limit, but I would give yourself as much time as possible to assure that you have given it your all.

In sum, I would recommend shooting for 3-5 months of full-time studying and adjust it accordingly to your goals. Just because you crushed Ivy undergrad (impressive stats nonetheless) doesn't mean the LSAT will necessarily translate similarly.. But who knows! Maybe after two months the test will be a joke and you decide to take it early and do crush it--you can get back to enjoying your life again (I hope it works out for you that way haha)

The one thing, I reckon, most on this forum will tell you is - The EARLIER you start, the better off you will be. if you have 6 months till you plan on taking it, don't wait till 2 months out and then cram...start now and see where you stand at least. Thats the only way to gauge how much work relatively you need to do to achieve your desired score.

Best of Luck!

I mean he could get it on his first test, he could get it on his 21st test. There is no way to gauge the capability beyond the fact that he seems more than capable enough to get such a score.

jelufowoju wrote:Not sure how strong the correlation between SAT + College GPA and LSAT score is, but I reckon he should be able to do well. I scored a 2360 on the SAT, have a 3.99 from an HYP and with the right prep materials was able to score a 177. He can probably do likewise.

How long did it take you, and what were those "right prep materials"?

HYPSM wrote:

jelufowoju wrote:Not sure how strong the correlation between SAT + College GPA and LSAT score is, but I reckon he should be able to do well. I scored a 2360 on the SAT, have a 3.99 from an HYP and with the right prep materials was able to score a 177. He can probably do likewise.

How long did it take you, and what were those "right prep materials"?

4 months, I used primarily 7sage and skimmed through the Manhattan LR guide, the Powerscore LGB and the LSAT trainer. 7sage however was by far the most useful.

jagerbom79 wrote:I think a 173 is realistic for you. From your stats you seem to have enough intelligence to do well and probably a great work-ethic to go with it, which for most, you need the package.

I come from a less impressive statistical background, but have scored 700+ on the GMAT and am currently studying LSAT with a similar goal as you...

Of course there are some people who don't need to study much and can get a baller score, but in most instances, it doesn't happen that easy. This test is like no other. On the GMAT forums/ here and from my personal experience, a more gradual timeline with consistent focus on the exam seems to be the best way for YOU to maximize what you are capable of scoring. seems to be like 3-5 months is a very friendly time frame. You may need more...you may need less.. you don't know what you don't know until you go for it. You also have to keep in mind some of your goals: How much time do you have to dedicate to your study? What cycle do you want to apply in? etc. No one truly has the ability to fall into LSAT Abyss for years until they score a 180 so you have to give yourself a limit, but I would give yourself as much time as possible to assure that you have given it your all.

In sum, I would recommend shooting for 3-5 months of full-time studying and adjust it accordingly to your goals. Just because you crushed Ivy undergrad (impressive stats nonetheless) doesn't mean the LSAT will necessarily translate similarly.. But who knows! Maybe after two months the test will be a joke and you decide to take it early and do crush it--you can get back to enjoying your life again (I hope it works out for you that way haha)

Best of Luck!

Barack O'Drama wrote:Yeah you can expect to hit a 173... But as has been said hundreds of times of here, there is no estimate. How could someone possibly tell you that? I have a 3.92 GPA, (albeit from a state school, not an Ivy) got a ~2200 on the SAT and was Salutatorian at my high school. I've been studying for 2.5 months and testing the in the 160s. A buddy of mine who was an average high school student went to community college and graduated with a 3.0 and went on to score a 169 after 3 months of prep. So the point being that previous credentials don't really matter in this regard.

The good news is they matter when I calculate my opinion of what you are capable of scoring. So I definitely think if you can manage a 3.85 from an Ivy there is no reason I can't think of why you can't score a 173+ Again, no one can even give you any useful estimate of how long it will take.

What would be more useful would be a diagnostic and an idea of how much you can study per day....

Thank you for the comprehensive responses! I've been quick to remind my friend that a high GPA from an Ivy undergrad does not automatically translate into a high LSAT score.

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So the consensus seems to be that it will be realistic for him, but would one year be overkill then? Is 6 months more reasonable?

HYPSM wrote:So the consensus seems to be that it will be realistic for him, but would one year be overkill then? Is 6 months more reasonable?

Honestly this is just an entirely individual thing. Best thing for your friend to do is to take a diagnostic, see where he is now, and then take the steps to remedy his weak points.

In general, being a good standardized test taker translates from the SAT/ACT to LSAT. I got a 2340 and 36 on the SAT and ACT and got a 180 on the LSAT. That being said, I didn't prep for the SAT/ACT and I got a 174 on the LSAT diagnostic, so I didn't really prep much for that either. If your friend spent 4-5 months prepping the SAT then the LSAT might come harder to him, but he shouldn't be discouraged at all if he doesn't get a "high" diagnostic score. It is perfectly reasonable that he could score <160 on his diagnostic and then get 173+ within a reasonable timeframe, but like I said, it seems to be a largely individual issue. Some people will kill it right out of the gate, and some people will take 6+ months regardless of how good they were at any other standardized test or undergraduate work. The important thing is not to settle. Regardless of the timeframe, I am certain that someone who can score 2200+ on the SAT and get a high UGPA can score in the 170s on the LSAT; he just needs to not let himself settle for a score that is below his potential when a few more points could mean literally (tens of) thousands of dollars.

Edit: Just reread the OP and saw that your friend "needs" a ballpark estimate. If he really needs one, then he should take a diagnostic LSAT (strictly timed, just like in an actual administration), and you should let us know what he got and his section breakdowns, i.e. if he missed 14 questions on LG but only 1 in LR and none in RC. That information will be much more relevant for establishing a timeline than SAT/GPA.

He needs to take a diagnostic test. See where he is starting.

QuentonCassidy wrote:

HYPSM wrote:So the consensus seems to be that it will be realistic for him, but would one year be overkill then? Is 6 months more reasonable?

Honestly this is just an entirely individual thing. Best thing for your friend to do is to take a diagnostic, see where he is now, and then take the steps to remedy his weak points.

In general, being a good standardized test taker translates from the SAT/ACT to LSAT. I got a 2340 and 36 on the SAT and ACT and got a 180 on the LSAT. That being said, I didn't prep for the SAT/ACT and I got a 174 on the LSAT diagnostic, so I didn't really prep much for that either. If your friend spent 4-5 months prepping the SAT then the LSAT might come harder to him, but he shouldn't be discouraged at all if he doesn't get a "high" diagnostic score. It is perfectly reasonable that he could score <160 on his diagnostic and then get 173+ within a reasonable timeframe, but like I said, it seems to be a largely individual issue. Some people will kill it right out of the gate, and some people will take 6+ months regardless of how good they were at any other standardized test or undergraduate work. The important thing is not to settle. Regardless of the timeframe, I am certain that someone who can score 2200+ on the SAT and get a high UGPA can score in the 170s on the LSAT; he just needs to not let himself settle for a score that is below his potential when a few more points could mean literally (tens of) thousands of dollars.

Edit: Just reread the OP and saw that your friend "needs" a ballpark estimate. If he really needs one, then he should take a diagnostic LSAT (strictly timed, just like in an actual administration), and you should let us know what he got and his section breakdowns, i.e. if he missed 14 questions on LG but only 1 in LR and none in RC. That information will be much more relevant for establishing a timeline than SAT/GPA.

Best response here--thanks a lot. I told him to take a diagnostic as well, but he doesn't want to get "discouraged or disappointed." I'll show him this, though.

We can't really answer this until your friend tells us his highest level on Halo 2 multiplayer or how fast he can speed run LOZ:OoT

HYPSM wrote:

Hikikomorist wrote:How much did he have to work for the 2270, if at all? Regardless, he should be able to hit 173.

I just asked him: he says he studied hard for it for like 4-5 months. Definitely not dumb.

Just to elaborate, he said CR was the main reason he studied that long, but he ended up with a 750 in the end.

Oh, in that case, ignore my 5-PT estimate.

HYPSM wrote: Best response here--thanks a lot. I told him to take a diagnostic as well, but he doesn't want to get "discouraged or disappointed." I'll show him this, though.

Thanks, there is definitely no reason to get discouraged no matter what someone scores on their diagnostic test. How smart you are, how good you will be as a lawyer, how well you can perform in law school, and even what you will ultimately score on the LSAT are certainly not bounded by how well you can figure out logic games in 35 minutes the first time you see them. There are tons of people who have upped their score by 20+ points from their diagnostic to the real thing, and the fact that your friend has performed well at a rigorous college and was able to study and perform well on the SAT implies that he should be able to study and score well on the LSAT. No reason to feel discouraged regardless of what he gets on his diagnostic; whether he goes from a 168 to a 175 or a 148 to a 175, it's not going to matter come application time. I wish him the best; with hard work I am confident that he can achieve the score he wants.

QuentonCassidy wrote:

HYPSM wrote: Best response here--thanks a lot. I told him to take a diagnostic as well, but he doesn't want to get "discouraged or disappointed." I'll show him this, though.

Thanks, there is definitely no reason to get discouraged no matter what someone scores on their diagnostic test. How smart you are, how good you will be as a lawyer, how well you can perform in law school, and even what you will ultimately score on the LSAT are certainly not bounded by how well you can figure out logic games in 35 minutes the first time you see them. There are tons of people who have upped their score by 20+ points from their diagnostic to the real thing, and the fact that your friend has performed well at a rigorous college and was able to study and perform well on the SAT implies that he should be able to study and score well on the LSAT. No reason to feel discouraged regardless of what he gets on his diagnostic; whether he goes from a 168 to a 175 or a 148 to a 175, it's not going to matter come application time. I wish him the best; with hard work I am confident that he can achieve the score he wants.

Yeah that's a dumb attitude. The diagnostic was essential for me because it showed me where I needed to focus. My first diagnostic I scored low 160s, but went basically perfect on RC and absolutely bombed LG. So I knew I needed to focus on LG much more than the other two sections. In about 2 months I improved to a 175+ PT average. I think a big part of that jump was focusing on what I specifically sucked on.

Not taking a diagnostic because you are afraid you will "get discouraged" is absurdly stupid.

Based on that evidence alone, I doubt he will break 160.

(kidding, kidding... seriously, take the diagnostic)