Top Law Schools

Post removed...

The concept of "timing" comes up a lot, and I've kind of concluded that the only real way to get better at "timing" is to get better at the fundamentals of dealing with LSAT questions. This is a really unsatisfying answer, I realize, but getting faster really is about getting better at dealing with the material. I, at least, haven't come across any techniques that make you faster independent of making you better at dealing with the questions.

That said, the best advice I can give is to slow down and do your upfront work carefully. For example, any time "saved" by blazing through a RC passage at the speed of light is usually spent threefold in answering the questions, as you end up re-reading, etc.

Post removed...

elterrible78 wrote:The concept of "timing" comes up a lot, and I've kind of concluded that the only real way to get better at "timing" is to get better at the fundamentals of dealing with LSAT questions. This is a really unsatisfying answer, I realize, but getting faster really is about getting better at dealing with the material. I, at least, haven't come across any techniques that make you faster independent of making you better at dealing with the questions.

That said, the best advice I can give is to slow down and do your upfront work carefully. For example, any time "saved" by blazing through a RC passage at the speed of light is usually spent threefold in answering the questions, as you end up re-reading, etc.

how much time you'd typically spend on reading the passage and how much on questions? would you subvocalize reading the pasage?

For RC, i know that the rule of the thumb is 8:45 per passage. But i found that I absorb other types of passages faster (usually science or social science) compared to law. so if I come across the law passage, I spend more than that.

For LG, I always have around 5-10 minutes left. I know 7 sage works for most people and making inferences are important but I just brute force my way through, really, really, really fast. Then I spend 5-10 minutes going over the "harder" Qs like "if we take out the rule that Q is before P, what would bring the same effect" and trick Qs like "how many including P can we completely know where they park" For me, brute forcing and actually doing all the simulations for each answer choices ensures that I get 0 wrong.

Looks like you have all the fundamentals down and prepared since you get 0 wrong after blind review so I hope you work out the timing!

tvu wrote: No, thank you for letting me know, I guess I really need to work on that.
I tend to do exactly what you say, I work really diligently on the questions (or skip it) and don't even get to answer some, which then I get wrong. For this reason, I;m hoping to get to more questions so I can get a chance to get a few more points.

Do you suggest I keep drilling timed or do it untimed?
Also for LG, do you suggest that I make as many inferences as possible up front or just diagram the rules and specifically do the inferences for each question?

Just keep at it with the reading comp. There are really specific things it helps to be looking for in the passages (distinctions/similarities, the author's opinion on the subject, causal mechanism, etc.) and keeping a close eye out for them can really help you read more effectively and answer questions more quickly.

For LG, my basic rule of thumb is this: a bare-bones type setup is usually fine if a lot of the questions begin with the word "if," because those questions will give you a new rule (just for that question) that can help you fill some stuff in. If there aren't that many "if" questions, there's a really good chance you'll need to invest extra time in your setup.

Good luck!

appind wrote:

elterrible78 wrote:The concept of "timing" comes up a lot, and I've kind of concluded that the only real way to get better at "timing" is to get better at the fundamentals of dealing with LSAT questions. This is a really unsatisfying answer, I realize, but getting faster really is about getting better at dealing with the material. I, at least, haven't come across any techniques that make you faster independent of making you better at dealing with the questions.

That said, the best advice I can give is to slow down and do your upfront work carefully. For example, any time "saved" by blazing through a RC passage at the speed of light is usually spent threefold in answering the questions, as you end up re-reading, etc.

how much time you'd typically spend on reading the passage and how much on questions? would you subvocalize reading the pasage?

I'm not sure what subvocalizing means, and I'm too lazy to look it up. Chances are I don't do it.

As far as time: after getting really good, I'd spend like 2.5 - 3 minutes just reading the passage, and be able to knock the questions out in another 2 - 2.5. If you read effectively the first pass through, it makes the questions much easier to answer. I'm not sure that kind of thing is attainable for everyone, but I do stand by the notion that investing the time upfront pays dividends. It's a tough mindset to get into when the clock is ticking, so starting to really internalize it early on in your prep is key, so when test day rolls around you don't feel as rushed.

Post removed...

tvu wrote:

december1205 wrote:For RC, i know that the rule of the thumb is 8:45 per passage. But i found that I absorb other types of passages faster (usually science or social science) compared to law. so if I come across the law passage, I spend more than that.

For LG, I always have around 5-10 minutes left. I know 7 sage works for most people and making inferences are important but I just brute force my way through, really, really, really fast. Then I spend 5-10 minutes going over the "harder" Qs like "if we take out the rule that Q is before P, what would bring the same effect" and trick Qs like "how many including P can we completely know where they park" For me, brute forcing and actually doing all the simulations for each answer choices ensures that I get 0 wrong.

Looks like you have all the fundamentals down and prepared since you get 0 wrong after blind review so I hope you work out the timing!

Ok, I'm happy to announce that after drilling 4 RC sections on I have managed to get it down to 1 or 2 wrong, timed. I pretty much do what you do and finished the humanities/art passages in 5 min and spent 10 on the other passages. YAY!
Now LG is killing me I cannot get to the last game...I will definitely try brute force. The 7 sage just doesn't do it for me, I do the inferences, but still waste so much time going through the questions and all the diagramming. It's sad b/c I have been so focused on getting LG/RC up that I have let my LG get so weak .
Thank you so much for the help, though, I'm sure that it will make a difference!

elterrible78 wrote:

tvu wrote: No, thank you for letting me know, I guess I really need to work on that.
I tend to do exactly what you say, I work really diligently on the questions (or skip it) and don't even get to answer some, which then I get wrong. For this reason, I;m hoping to get to more questions so I can get a chance to get a few more points.

Do you suggest I keep drilling timed or do it untimed?
Also for LG, do you suggest that I make as many inferences as possible up front or just diagram the rules and specifically do the inferences for each question?

Just keep at it with the reading comp. There are really specific things it helps to be looking for in the passages (distinctions/similarities, the author's opinion on the subject, causal mechanism, etc.) and keeping a close eye out for them can really help you read more effectively and answer questions more quickly.

For LG, my basic rule of thumb is this: a bare-bones type setup is usually fine if a lot of the questions begin with the word "if," because those questions will give you a new rule (just for that question) that can help you fill some stuff in. If there aren't that many "if" questions, there's a really good chance you'll need to invest extra time in your setup.

Good luck!

Yep, not much to RC other than drilling, I think I'm getting better a it, only missed one or two in the past 4 timed sections I drilled.
Ok, will try this for LG, i honestly have no idea what slows me down so much, but thank you for the advice!

Thats weird I usually find the humanities or science passages the most time consuming and I get the most wrong on. Almost every law passage for me is the one I do quickly and I usually go perfect on the question set. Personally I find it much more difficult to remember the subtleties and sharp distinctions in humanities passages, makes me read slower and have to look back at passage more often. Also I need to kick the habit of browning out when reading the question stem and having to reread it sometimes

elterrible78 wrote:

Just keep at it with the reading comp. There are really specific things it helps to be looking for in the passages (distinctions/similarities, the author's opinion on the subject, causal mechanism, etc.) and keeping a close eye out for them can really help you read more effectively and answer questions more quickly.

As somebody who started out having almost no time for the last passage in RC, but improved a lot, I wholeheartedly agree-this approach really helped me.

tvu wrote:
Ok, I'm happy to announce that after drilling 4 RC sections on I have managed to get it down to 1 or 2 wrong, timed. I pretty much do what you do and finished the humanities/art passages in 5 min and spent 10 on the other passages. YAY!

Yay, congrats! Also, for LG I find that I vary my strategy a lot by game type. If it is one in which there are very few possible setups to begin with I go ahead and diagram out the inferences, and always try to note any conditional logic chains. In other instances, though, brute force still seems faster (and sometimes ends up revealing helpful inferences or insights for other questions in the game).

elterrible78 wrote:
I'm not sure what subvocalizing means, and I'm too lazy to look it up. Chances are I don't do it.

As far as time: after getting really good, I'd spend like 2.5 - 3 minutes just reading the passage, and be able to knock the questions out in another 2 - 2.5. If you read effectively the first pass through, it makes the questions much easier to answer. I'm not sure that kind of thing is attainable for everyone, but I do stand by the notion that investing the time upfront pays dividends. It's a tough mindset to get into when the clock is ticking, so starting to really internalize it early on in your prep is key, so when test day rolls around you don't feel as rushed.

it's only saying the words in your head as you're reading. some people who read very fast say that saying the words or having a voice in one's head while reading can slow one down. but may be having that voice or subvocalizing helps with comprehension, idk.

doing 7 questions of the passage in 2-2:30 min is blazing when one has only spent around 2.5-3 min on the passage. are you referring to only some passages that you did this fast or almost all? how do you go so fast on questions when you may have to refer back and re-read some parts on the passage to answer some questions?

if i am getting through the passage fast it takes me about 2:30-3 min to read, but to really read for all specific things that are mentioned in the earlier post and a better comprehension, it takes me about 4-4.5 or even 5 mins on the passage.

appind wrote: it's only saying the words in your head as you're reading. some people who read very fast say that saying the words or having a voice in one's head while reading can slow one down. but may be having that voice or subvocalizing helps with comprehension, idk.

doing 7 questions of the passage in 2-2:30 min is blazing when one has only spent around 2.5-3 min on the passage. are you referring to only some passages that you did this fast or almost all? how do you go so fast on questions when you may have to refer back and re-read some parts on the passage to answer some questions?

if i am getting through the passage fast it takes me about 2:30-3 min to read, but to really read for all specific things that are mentioned in the earlier post and a better comprehension, it takes me about 4-4.5 or even 5 mins on the passage.

I think it's just a matter of keeping at it, and really only focusing on the stuff I mentioned, which accounts for a huge majority of the questions. Something I found helpful was, when I would spot something that was important, stopping and just kind of repeating it in my mind ("X is like this, and Y is similar, but with this difference"). Because you're talking serious short-term memory, that kind of thing was enough to lock it in my mind.

Yeah, I got pretty quick. If I do a new reading comprehension section now, I'll usually finish it at -0 in 22 minutes or so, and hardly ever refer back to the passage after reading it the first time. Obviously not everyone can get that good. But, if you really focus on the stuff that matters (and realize that it's absolutely pointless to try to remember everything), you'll be surprised at how much you can improve. As with many things, though, practice is key.

elterrible78 wrote:

appind wrote: it's only saying the words in your head as you're reading. some people who read very fast say that saying the words or having a voice in one's head while reading can slow one down. but may be having that voice or subvocalizing helps with comprehension, idk.

doing 7 questions of the passage in 2-2:30 min is blazing when one has only spent around 2.5-3 min on the passage. are you referring to only some passages that you did this fast or almost all? how do you go so fast on questions when you may have to refer back and re-read some parts on the passage to answer some questions?

if i am getting through the passage fast it takes me about 2:30-3 min to read, but to really read for all specific things that are mentioned in the earlier post and a better comprehension, it takes me about 4-4.5 or even 5 mins on the passage.

I think it's just a matter of keeping at it, and really only focusing on the stuff I mentioned, which accounts for a huge majority of the questions. Something I found helpful was, when I would spot something that was important, stopping and just kind of repeating it in my mind ("X is like this, and Y is similar, but with this difference"). Because you're talking serious short-term memory, that kind of thing was enough to lock it in my mind.

Yeah, I got pretty quick. If I do a new reading comprehension section now, I'll usually finish it at -0 in 22 minutes or so, and hardly ever refer back to the passage after reading it the first time. Obviously not everyone can get that good. But, if you really focus on the stuff that matters (and realize that it's absolutely pointless to try to remember everything), you'll be surprised at how much you can improve. As with many things, though, practice is key.

Im sorry perhaps im fatigued, I cannot distinguish fantasy from reality. Did you just say you routinely go -1 in 22minutes? (this is blasphemous) My god man my I cannot even consistently keep my RC under -8 sometimes. Each other section I have some confidence but RC I see no improvement. I tried notation, reading for scale (lol), but it seems I do best when I just concentrate on the passage and wing it rather than making a conscious effort to be mechanical or make any form of notation.

Post removed...

tvu wrote:

shineoncrazydiamond wrote:

tvu wrote:
Ok, I'm happy to announce that after drilling 4 RC sections on I have managed to get it down to 1 or 2 wrong, timed. I pretty much do what you do and finished the humanities/art passages in 5 min and spent 10 on the other passages. YAY!

Yay, congrats! Also, for LG I find that I vary my strategy a lot by game type. If it is one in which there are very few possible setups to begin with I go ahead and diagram out the inferences, and always try to note any conditional logic chains. In other instances, though, brute force still seems faster (and sometimes ends up revealing helpful inferences or insights for other questions in the game).

Thank you! This is so true,I need to become more adaptable. I used to be soo good at games, now I suck after I have been neglecting it. It's crazy, the more I drill one section over the other, the others get weaker. I can never get into a good groove on all sections.

This definitely happened to me with LG-I got slow after neglecting it to do RC and some LR. I'm trying to drill a little of each when I drill now, and doing more PTs. Maybe add LG as your experimental for extra practice every now and then on PTs until you're back up to speed (although I also like to prepare for worst case scenario double RC on test day). Good luck!!