Violation of LSAT test center regulations Forum

chalky · Post by **chalky** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:03 am

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ihenry · Post by **ihenry** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:08 am

seashell.economy wrote:For what it's worth, standards of cheating *are* culturally dependent and thus vary from country to country. Anyone who has worked at a school that has international students knows this.

Uh, no. The standards are the same across countries; the only thing that's different is the likelihood of getting penalized (and the degree of it). Some people are just used to getting away with misconducts.

Nagster5 · Post by **Nagster5** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:16 am

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AfrocentricAsian · Post by **AfrocentricAsian** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:07 am

It's pretty stupid how something like this can follow someone all the way to the bar...He's not even in law school yet. He made a mistake.

ugg · Post by **ugg** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:14 am

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TheSpanishMain · Post by **TheSpanishMain** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:22 am

If I remember the LSAT correctly, they tell you specifically and repeatedly that bubbling in answers in a different section of the test than the one you're supposed to be working on is cheating. I'm not sure your claim that you were confused is going to fly.

I have no idea if this will preclude you from going to a decent school and passing the bar, but it definitely makes the prospect way more iffy. At minimum, I'd expect you to underperform your numbers in admissions and have a rocky time with the bar C&F stuff. You can consult a C&F attorney, but as others have said, you may want to make alternate plans.

Mack.Hambleton · Post by **Mack.Hambleton** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:22 am

You're taking an American test for American law schools, it would have been to smart to familiarize yourself with the standards.

cheesy145 · Post by **cheesy145** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:23 am

AfrocentricAsian wrote:It's pretty stupid how something like this can follow someone all the way to the bar...He's not even in law school yet. He made a mistake.

I mean its not like he just accidentally brought in a mechanical pencil or something. Its a pretty big deal

lymenheimer · Post by **lymenheimer** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:23 am

theugg wrote:
AfrocentricAsian wrote:It's pretty stupid how something like this can follow someone all the way to the bar...He's not even in law school yet. He made a mistake.
I think it's fair. We are old enough to know better and old enough that our actions have real consequences.

And if you can't follow written AND verbal instructions...

Cochran · Post by **Cochran** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:26 am

Wow, some of you people must be nuns. OP made a mistake which was "cheating", but laughing at the guy and condemning him does no good. OP, I'm sure you are going to have some sort of appeal process where you can explain your misunderstanding. Whatever the penalty is, I'm sure that you will be able to retake the test and be just fine for law schools. If LSAC deems the offense as nbd, they may even waive it from your record altogether, you never know.

chalky · Post by **chalky** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:29 am

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ugg · Post by **ugg** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:30 am

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gamerish · Post by **gamerish** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:30 am

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TheSpanishMain · Post by **TheSpanishMain** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:47 am

Cochran wrote:Wow, some of you people must be nuns. OP made a mistake which was "cheating", but laughing at the guy and condemning him does no good. OP, I'm sure you are going to have some sort of appeal process where you can explain your misunderstanding. Whatever the penalty is, I'm sure that you will be able to retake the test and be just fine for law schools. If LSAC deems the offense as nbd, they may even waive it from your record altogether, you never know.

Even if OP was genuinely confused and it was truly an honest mistake, he/she is likely still screwed. I have no idea why you think LSAC is going to view this as no big deal. Law schools are going to take this very seriously as well. Maybe it can be overcome, but it's almost certainly going to have a huge impact going forward.

ihenry · Post by **ihenry** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:48 am

Cochran wrote:Wow, some of you people must be nuns. OP made a mistake which was "cheating", but laughing at the guy and condemning him does no good. OP, I'm sure you are going to have some sort of appeal process where you can explain your misunderstanding. Whatever the penalty is, I'm sure that you will be able to retake the test and be just fine for law schools. If LSAC deems the offense as nbd, they may even waive it from your record altogether, you never know.

Yeah. If LSAC deems it as nbd, they may even issue an apology of having kicked him out, and offer him a free retake. You never know.

Seriously, I can't be more appreciative of personal freedom and am extremely tolerable about honest mistakes. It is just crystal clear that OP's mistake is not an honest one.

Cochran · Post by **Cochran** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:51 am

It seems to me that his cheating wasn't malicious or made with any real intent to deceive. English may not be his primary language and things may have gotten lost in translation. It just doesn't seem like THAT big of a deal breaker as far as the entirety of his application, let alone his career as a lawyer. If LSAC validates his reasoning during an appeal, it stops there. If not and he has a fair explanation, again, I don't see that really hindering his opportunities to the degree that everyone seems to believe.

My point is that when you're in the heat of the moment of taking the test, you likely aren't focusing on what the proctor says. I used a virtual proctor during practice to the point that the instructions were ingrained into my testing, but this is likely not OP's case. And I don't know anyone who had the time to sit there and read all of the instructions before they start each section of the test.

A. Nony Mouse · Post by **A. Nony Mouse** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:55 am

I don't think intent matters, but it's clear the OP's intent was to try to get some extra points by filling in questions after the fact (even if randomly). And arguing that in a high-pressure moment you don't listen to/read instructions just doesn't look very good.

Having said that, I don't know what the exact consequences will be if the OP is found to have violated the rules - they should probably talk to 1) the schools they're applying to and 2) the state bar association where they intend to take the bar (that is, after any ruling by LSAC so they know whether there's actually going to be something on their record).

Cochran · Post by **Cochran** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:57 am

TheSpanishMain wrote:
Cochran wrote:Wow, some of you people must be nuns. OP made a mistake which was "cheating", but laughing at the guy and condemning him does no good. OP, I'm sure you are going to have some sort of appeal process where you can explain your misunderstanding. Whatever the penalty is, I'm sure that you will be able to retake the test and be just fine for law schools. If LSAC deems the offense as nbd, they may even waive it from your record altogether, you never know.
Even if OP was genuinely confused and it was truly an honest mistake, he/she is likely still screwed. I have no idea why you think LSAC is going to view this as no big deal. Law schools are going to take this very seriously as well. Maybe it can be overcome, but it's almost certainly going to have a huge impact going forward.

I just don't see an admissions officer, after reading his explanation, would say "The reason we didn't accept you is because you randomly marked 11 questions on a cancelled LSAT after time was called, despite your explanation of misunderstanding that actually seems plausible in light of your foreign status."

Cochran · Post by **Cochran** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:01 am

ihenry wrote:
Cochran wrote:Wow, some of you people must be nuns. OP made a mistake which was "cheating", but laughing at the guy and condemning him does no good. OP, I'm sure you are going to have some sort of appeal process where you can explain your misunderstanding. Whatever the penalty is, I'm sure that you will be able to retake the test and be just fine for law schools. If LSAC deems the offense as nbd, they may even waive it from your record altogether, you never know.
Yeah. If LSAC deems it as nbd, they may even issue an apology of having kicked him out, and offer him a free retake. You never know.

Seriously, I can't be more appreciative of personal freedom and am extremely tolerable about honest mistakes. It is just crystal clear that OP's mistake is not an honest one.

I admit, I'm completely speculating. If OP is just lying, then yes, screw him. But we have no clue, and yamming on the dude in light of what could be an honest mistake seems petty. That was the only reason I posted.

A. Nony Mouse · Post by **A. Nony Mouse** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:03 am

Cochran wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:
Cochran wrote:Wow, some of you people must be nuns. OP made a mistake which was "cheating", but laughing at the guy and condemning him does no good. OP, I'm sure you are going to have some sort of appeal process where you can explain your misunderstanding. Whatever the penalty is, I'm sure that you will be able to retake the test and be just fine for law schools. If LSAC deems the offense as nbd, they may even waive it from your record altogether, you never know.
Even if OP was genuinely confused and it was truly an honest mistake, he/she is likely still screwed. I have no idea why you think LSAC is going to view this as no big deal. Law schools are going to take this very seriously as well. Maybe it can be overcome, but it's almost certainly going to have a huge impact going forward.
I just don't see an admissions officer, after reading his explanation, would say "The reason we didn't accept you is because you randomly marked 11 questions on a cancelled LSAT after time was called, despite your explanation of misunderstanding that actually seems plausible in light of your foreign status."

Except the misunderstanding isn't really plausible, since the rules are available ahead of time, clear, and announced regularly throughout the exam.

I'm not trying to say the OP is some kind of terrible person who can never be trusted again. I'm just saying it's a clear violation of the rules, even if by mistake. If LSAC concludes it's not a problem then that's great, but they take this kind of thing pretty seriously.

lymenheimer · Post by **lymenheimer** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:06 am

Cochran wrote:
ihenry wrote:
Cochran wrote:Wow, some of you people must be nuns. OP made a mistake which was "cheating", but laughing at the guy and condemning him does no good. OP, I'm sure you are going to have some sort of appeal process where you can explain your misunderstanding. Whatever the penalty is, I'm sure that you will be able to retake the test and be just fine for law schools. If LSAC deems the offense as nbd, they may even waive it from your record altogether, you never know.
Yeah. If LSAC deems it as nbd, they may even issue an apology of having kicked him out, and offer him a free retake. You never know.

Seriously, I can't be more appreciative of personal freedom and am extremely tolerable about honest mistakes. It is just crystal clear that OP's mistake is not an honest one.
I admit, I'm completely speculating. If OP is just lying, then yes, screw him. But we have no clue, and yamming on the dude in light of what could be an honest mistake seems petty. That was the only reason I posted.

What Nony said, also, think of it this way. If LSAC comes out and decides to sanction OP, that means his explanation wasn't justifiable enough to LSAC. Why would the law schools not hold this heavily since they do a lot of work with LSAC? Why would they discount it because some random international student said he didn't mean to do it? because if he told LSAC the same thing and they still hit him with consequences, obviously the excuse didn't fly (whether he's lying to us or not).

TheSpanishMain · Post by **TheSpanishMain** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:10 am

Cochran wrote:
yamming on the dude in light of what could be an honest mistake seems petty. That was the only reason I posted.

I don't think most people are telling him he's screwed to be malicious or just because they want to make him sweat. They're telling him he stepped in it because, well, he stepped in it.

whacka · Post by **whacka** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:11 am

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basedvulpes · Post by **basedvulpes** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:15 am

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mist4bison · Post by **mist4bison** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:20 am

whacka wrote:Does anyone seriously buy that OP didn't know he couldn't do that? Do you think the 35 minutes is just a suggestion or what

Yeah, this is what I was thinking. I'm sure OP knew what he was doing, but thought he'd get away with it. He didn't and now the best excuse he can come up with is "but I didn't know!"