PT=timed PT? Forum

[sarahsala]

Hello,

So I did some research about studying and found many people say that after drilling, do PT.
Just want to ask...drilling is like doing bunch of questions without timed and PT is doing the whole 4 sections either with time or untime right?
So when people say they do 10 PTs or 12PTs, it means it includes both untimed and timed PTs? Besides those, they only do drilling?
How many PTs would you suggest to do? (I know it depends on person, but on average...)

Thanks in advance.

[RZ5646]

You can do both drilling and PTs both timed and untimed (and it's probably a good idea to do every combination at least a couple times). But if you're going to say something like "I did PT 50 and got 174", then it had better have been timed because otherwise the scaled score is pretty much meaningless.

[sarahsala]

You can do both drilling and PTs both timed and untimed (and it's probably a good idea to do every combination at least a couple times). But if you're going to say something like "I did PT 50 and got 174", then it had better have been timed because otherwise the scaled score is pretty much meaningless.

Thanks for the reply
So how many PTs do people usually do? I mean the whole section, including timed and untimed?

[RZ5646]

You can do both drilling and PTs both timed and untimed (and it's probably a good idea to do every combination at least a couple times). But if you're going to say something like "I did PT 50 and got 174", then it had better have been timed because otherwise the scaled score is pretty much meaningless.

Thanks for the reply
So how many PTs do people usually do? I mean the whole section, including timed and untimed?

It varies a lot. Some people do every single one, while I guesstimate that most people here on TLS do like 10-20. I'm trying to do at least 20 timed.

What you need to do is figure out a goal score based on your career aspirations, financial situation, and GPA, and then study until you can consistently score at or above that goal on timed PTs. If that takes you 6 days and 1 PT, then cool, if it takes you 6 months and 50 PTs, that's cool too. Just don't pick some arbitrary number of PTs to study with and then get a shitty score on the real thing.

[ChinaCat]

You can do both drilling and PTs both timed and untimed (and it's probably a good idea to do every combination at least a couple times). But if you're going to say something like "I did PT 50 and got 174", then it had better have been timed because otherwise the scaled score is pretty much meaningless.

Thanks for the reply
So how many PTs do people usually do? I mean the whole section, including timed and untimed?

Most people probably do 0 to 3 PTs. You should do as many as it takes you to consistently score at or above your target. If you're aiming for a great score, you should expect to do at least 30 full, timed PTs, but your mileage may vary.

[sarahsala]

You can do both drilling and PTs both timed and untimed (and it's probably a good idea to do every combination at least a couple times). But if you're going to say something like "I did PT 50 and got 174", then it had better have been timed because otherwise the scaled score is pretty much meaningless.

Thanks for the reply
So how many PTs do people usually do? I mean the whole section, including timed and untimed?

It varies a lot. Some people do every single one, while I guesstimate that most people here on TLS do like 10-20. I'm trying to do at least 20 timed.

What you need to do is figure out a goal score based on your career aspirations, financial situation, and GPA, and then study until you can consistently score at or above that goal on timed PTs. If that takes you 6 days and 1 PT, then cool, if it takes you 6 months and 50 PTs, that's cool too. Just don't pick some arbitrary number of PTs to study with and then get a shitty score on the real thing.

Thanks again,
Yeah, I just wanted a general idea, but I'll be flexible depending on my progress.
Can I ask one more question?
So when you follow a way to study and did not see much progress...when do you know you should start to do something different to increase your score? (study differently etc) When to expect development?
When I do not see a progress I feel very anxious about whether I'm doing okay. I don't think we should wait for a couple months to expect progress right?

You can do both drilling and PTs both timed and untimed (and it's probably a good idea to do every combination at least a couple times). But if you're going to say something like "I did PT 50 and got 174", then it had better have been timed because otherwise the scaled score is pretty much meaningless.

Thanks for the reply
So how many PTs do people usually do? I mean the whole section, including timed and untimed?

Most people probably do 0 to 3 PTs. You should do as many as it takes you to consistently score at or above your target. If you're aiming for a great score, you should expect to do at least 30 full, timed PTs, but your mileage may vary.

So if we do untimed sections plus timed PTs, it will be more than 30 PTs? Plus there are drilling, so it basically means to do most questions? (esp. if you aim higher score?)

[MrBalloons]

So if we do untimed sections plus timed PTs, it will be more than 30 PTs? Plus there are drilling, so it basically means to do most questions? (esp. if you aim higher score?)

As an example, by the time I take the October test, I will have drilled all of tests 1-20 (split up by question type--an aspect of this I think you might be missing), the logic games from 21-40, and the RCs from 41-50. In addition to this, I will have done full, timed practice tests with tests 51-75.

This grouping just sort of evolved as I went along, always with the simultaneous goals of using as many recent tests as possible and drilling as much stuff that I haven't seen before as I can.

[sarahsala]

So if we do untimed sections plus timed PTs, it will be more than 30 PTs? Plus there are drilling, so it basically means to do most questions? (esp. if you aim higher score?)

As an example, by the time I take the October test, I will have drilled all of tests 1-20 (split up by question type--an aspect of this I think you might be missing), the logic games from 21-40, and the RCs from 41-50. In addition to this, I will have done full, timed practice tests with tests 51-75.

This grouping just sort of evolved as I went along, always with the simultaneous goals of using as many recent tests as possible and drilling as much stuff that I haven't seen before as I can.

So for LR, you are doing and will be doing questions PT1-20 and 51-75?
I feel like I should push back my test date...I was thinking just doing PT51-75 plus some drilling, but I feel like it may be not enough...in fact I have not seen much progress yet

[MrBalloons]

So for LR, you are doing and will be doing questions PT1-20 and 51-75?
I feel like I should push back my test date...I was thinking just doing PT51-75 plus some drilling, but I feel like it may be not enough...in fact I have not seen much progress yet

Right. I've drilled the 1-20 LRs using the Cambridge packet which sorts the questions by type and orders them by difficulty.

What has your studying looked like so far? Diagnostic score, time put into it, what methods, current scores, etc...

[sarahsala]

So for LR, you are doing and will be doing questions PT1-20 and 51-75?
I feel like I should push back my test date...I was thinking just doing PT51-75 plus some drilling, but I feel like it may be not enough...in fact I have not seen much progress yet

Right. I've drilled the 1-20 LRs using the Cambridge packet which sorts the questions by type and orders them by difficulty.

What has your studying looked like so far? Diagnostic score, time put into it, what methods, current scores, etc...

It was 151, but now it's like 154~157...I studied about two and half month in total. I finished bibles, MLSAT books.
I put focus on LR because there are 2 sections, but always miss like 5-7 questions...and it's not like the same question types, just miss questions among 14-22 range. so I was not sure whether I should drill.
Currently I'm doing sections separately and after finish answering questions I'm reviewing why the correct answer is correct and why the wrong answer I chose was wrong...I did not check all wrong answers. I don't re-do the questions I've already done, but maybe I should?
When do people usually see progress? Every time I finish a new LR section I feel like I can do better next time, but always it turns out -5 to -7 and miss something, so it feels like there are just so many different question types and I cannot cover all of them

[RZ5646]

Look at the question types and drill the ones you're bad at. That lets you focus on one sort of thing at a time. For example, I sucked at LG, so I drilled only linear games for a while, then only grouping, etc., and I made good progress. Then if you take a PT and realize you're still sucking at a particular type of game/question, go back and drill those again, untimed if you just don't get it, timed if you understand it but aren't fast enough. How quickly you progress will depend on what area it is (LG progresses quickly, RC very slowly) and how smart you are.

[sarahsala]

Look at the question types and drill the ones you're bad at. That lets you focus on one sort of thing at a time. For example, I sucked at LG, so I drilled only linear games for a while, then only grouping, etc., and I made good progress. Then if you take a PT and realize you're still sucking at a particular type of game/question, go back and drill those again, untimed if you just don't get it, timed if you understand it but aren't fast enough. How quickly you progress will depend on what area it is (LG progresses quickly, RC very slowly) and how smart you are.

What if I miss 2 from inference, one from nec. assumption, 1 from strengthen, 1 from weaken, something like that? Should I drill each type questions? I mean I do not miss like 5 from assumption questions, so...
I bought Cambridge PDF< but I do not see they sort them by difficulty...maybe I overlooked? How do we know when it starts level 2, 3, 4?

[Op_Diom]

You must learn to ride a bike before you can go race it.

Take as many as you need to consistently score a little above your target.

Drill problem areas -- the questions get harder as you move along numerically, including in the Cambridge packets.

[sarahsala]

Thanks for the advice,
I guess I should start to focus on LG now...I miss about 8 here, almost all in the 2 hard games. I thought I should improve LR but...could not improve a lot
This is why I asked when I should see improvement and know whether I study correctly...really frustrated

By the way, anyway to reduce subvocalization?
When I tried to do it in RC trying to read faster, I found I do not understand what it says

[T14-->BigLaw]

I used PT 1-35 for drilling, and I have taken 36-66 as timed PTs, as well as 1-35 (as retakes) and A,B and C. I will be taking 67-75 until October rolls around.