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Posted: **Wed May 28, 2014 1:28 pm**

I have been studying for about 10 months, and have taken 22 preptests. I am averaging 167 (past 5 tests) with a median of 169 and a mode of 166 and a range 163-175 over all tests. I do a 4 section test timed, redo questions I have circled, and then grade and review. I have gone through the LRB and the LGB books once. I have a spreadsheet of what question types I miss, but I seem to not be improving. I am trying to reach 175+. I have currently taken only tests from PT1-38, but I am afraid at this rate I will burn through all of the tests before I am ready for September. Should I get a tutor? Am I studying ineffectively? Logic Games typically don't give me trouble (-0/-1 unless one is hard, like -3), but LR and RC trip me up the most.

Posted: **Wed May 28, 2014 2:15 pm**

No, you don't need a tutor. The right one could be helpful though, but may not be worth the effort to find. Most tutors/teachers primarily work trying to get people from the 130/40's into the 150/60's so if you're gonna get one make sure you get someone that has taught people into the high 170's before. Ask for references and previous scores of their students. Again, most tutors really don't have this kind of experience.

Honestly to me it sounds like you're plateauing and maybe might not have much left to gain. Clearly the wall you're running into is the time constraint and the only way to get better at that is to just keep doing what you're doing. It's a long road, but you should be able to get into the 170's (averaged) by the Sept test. Have you drilled LR much?

Posted: **Wed May 28, 2014 2:37 pm**

I think you could reach your goal without a tutor, but I say that assuming you haven't taken advantage of some of the right ways to increase your score individually (different books, drilling packets, reviewing your mistakes effectively). It's really great that you've been working so hard, but it sounds like you might be buzzing through tests, which isn't exactly the most efficient way to work on your weaknesses. As Pneumonia suggested, if you haven't already, give drilling a shot.

In terms of help, you don't need a tutor, but having the right one would benefit you greatly. I also think that you should favor tutors with experience tutoring 170+ scoring students, for obvious reasons. Though, I will say that there are a lot of variables that contribute to the score of a tutor's students, so the lack of experience in this area (170+ scoring students) shouldn't necessarily eliminate potential tutors from your consideration.

Posted: **Wed May 28, 2014 3:43 pm**

Have you been drilling? You only mention taking PTs and if that's all you're doing then that's your problem.

Posted: **Wed May 28, 2014 3:49 pm**

malleus discentium wrote:Have you been drilling? You only mention taking PTs and if that's all you're doing then that's your problem.

this is highly credited.

Posted: **Wed May 28, 2014 4:30 pm**

Have you read Jeffort's posts about observing how you're taking the test and figuring out all the mistakes and wrong choices you make?

Those posts are deep and incredibly insightful.

Jeffort's a tutor. If he has room in his schedule and is willing to work online/by phone, you may want to grab a few sessions with him -- or one of the other superstars on this forum.

I agree that you don't need a tutor, but the right tutor could help.

Posted: **Wed May 28, 2014 4:44 pm**

I'm a retaker in sept the same boat. I was plateauing mid -high 160s and I'm looking for a 170+. I did all the ps bibles and a ton of pts the first time, but no drilling. Could someone explain what drilling is and what prep materials you need for it?

Posted: **Wed May 28, 2014 4:46 pm**

smiles123 wrote:I'm a retaker in sept the same boat. I was plateauing mid -high 160s and I'm looking for a 170+. I did all the ps bibles and a ton of pts the first time, but no drilling. Could someone explain what drilling is and what prep materials you need for it?

Checkout the Pithypike thread in the Prep forum- the OP and then the most recent 3 or 4 pages

Posted: **Wed May 28, 2014 7:26 pm**

I have not been drilling. Hopefully this makes my goal seem more reasonable and attainable.

LauraS, perhaps you or someone could provide a link to Jeffort's post(s)?

Posted: **Wed May 28, 2014 7:37 pm**

Hello!

Just press my profile button on this post and then click the link to 'search users posts'.

I've posted a ton of stuff about drilling and the phases of prep recently. Here are a few direct links:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 2#p7655392

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&start=22

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 2#p7495923

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/s ... mit=Search

Hope this helps, feel free to post any questions for clarification or anything else you want to ask that I might be able to help with.

Posted: **Wed May 28, 2014 8:23 pm**

Tutor, if its someone else's money, Si non , no tutor.

If you end up hiring a tutor, higher someone smarter than you. Like freak smart, which you're already approaching with that sweet sexy 167.

Posted: **Wed May 28, 2014 8:25 pm**

I also really like his discussion of Reading Comp here:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6&t=229099

You can get a good sense of how deep the review should be, especially from his long post in the middle.

The idea is to take apart everything you've done on questions you've missed and questions you weren't sure about, to finesse every aspect of the process. Several errors (often subtle) are involved when we get questions wrong. You can learn what traps you fall for, what nuances you overlook, what things you don't understand as clearly as you could, what time wasters you have in your approach, etc.

After you've done this analysis yourself, if you're not scoring where you want to be, a tutor like Jeffort can help fill in any gaps.

I suggest that you write down an analysis of every question you miss or weren't sure about. You can list on an Excel spreadsheet (or wherever you like) a description of what happened and what you can do in the future to avoid the problem (both of these can take some thought). You may want to dedicate special columns to particular aspects, like, with LR and RC, why you rejected the right answer and why you chose the wrong answer. Whatever system works for you.

Writing helps you slow down and think more carefully. If you're just thinking about a question you've missed, it's too easy to look at the right answer and say, "Oh, yeah, I get why that's right," and learn nothing from the experience. Also, when you write, new insights tend to come up. And you have something to review periodically in your studies.

(Okay, I'll get off of my writing soapbox now.)

Posted: **Wed May 28, 2014 9:25 pm**

How should I actually drill? I have the Cambridge packets with the LR sorted by type.

Posted: **Wed May 28, 2014 9:35 pm**

set a timer for a set amount of time and get as many CORRECT as you can within that time. Not complete as many as you can. If this means you only get 3 right the so be it. I usually did 45 minutes so that a 35 minute section would feel shorter. The point is to go 100% for accuracy and to have your brain fully engaged the whole time. That is where the big gains in speed will come from; each time you work through something that is confusing you'll be a little faster the next time. This is why it is key to not "give up" and not to go fast; if you do you'll just be negating a lot of the potential gains. Again the LSAT is a test of skill so just looking up an answer usually is a lot less helpful then figuring it out yourself. If you are truly lost on a question, refer back to the LR Bible for strategy and try again before quitting and going to the Manhattan forums.

This is Pneumonia's drilling advice. Sometimes I'd do 90/135 minutes if I had extra time, but the nice thing about drilling is that you can do it on a lunch break or whatever. I def wouldn't do less than 35 minute blocks though (preferrably 45) because you'll ruin your endurance. Others do a few Q's here and there but again I think its better to just block off some time.

Posted: **Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:39 pm**

If you're still reading this thread, 7sage has an excellent series of 8 videos on youtube on how to review in-depth, which they call "blind review."

I hope this link gets you there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPhj7pUi ... CVDnRh1Vd2

In-deth review, of the kind jeffort and 7sage describe so brilliantly, is where you're likely to make real gains at your level.

Posted: **Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:42 pm**

sorry if this has been said already, but is blind review for when I am taking PTs or when I am drilling?

Posted: **Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:49 pm**

It seems like there's a block that you can't quite put your finger on. I think a tutor could really help see something that you're overlooking. Lots of times you just need a new perspective to help get you on a different track.

That said, you need a really good tutor. If you're shooting for high 170's, make sure your tutor not only scored in the 99th percentile on his LSAT (most prep companies only require 98th percentile), but also has significant experience teaching LSAT.

That said, once your tutor identifies your blockages, you may be able to improve with self study since it sounds like you're already strong in that. Maybe schedule 2-3 sessions with a tutor and see if you need to continue from there.

Posted: **Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:17 am**

cavalier2015 wrote:sorry if this has been said already, but is blind review for when I am taking PTs or when I am drilling?

People have different opinions on how to do all this stuff, what drilling even means.

I am a big fan of jeffort's approach. I've included excerpts from one of his awesome posts below.

In the approach I favor, you're at the point where should be doing deep, untimed drilling with a thorough analysis of any question you're not 100% sure you've gotten correct/the 7sage blind review.

You can also do this when you take timed practice tests, but, like almost everyone, you should probably be spending a long time in the drilling phase. That's where the magic happens.

7sage recommends verbalizing your reasons to someone else -- or yourself, if need be. I think writing is also a fantastic tool. The main thing is to slow down and think carefully about each question, watch your own processes, see what traps you fall for, learn what isn't crystal clear to you, etc.

Jeffort wrote: ...

The bulk of the real hard work required to significantly improve is large amounts of time spent doing tedious focused drilling with thorough review and detailed analysis of everything including careful self analysis. People mistake the 'gaining LSAT knowledge' phase for the hard work required to learn how to and get good at effectively APPLYING everything they learned to be able to actually solve questions effectively, aka improve skill level.

Slow motion drilling focused on getting better and better at applying proper approaches, techniques, step by step processes, etc. to each Q type is the most important LSAT prep work that directly improves actual skills/abilities and score range. It's important to spend A LOT of time doing slow motion drilling before rushing into doing full sections/tests and focusing on timing, but most people shortchange this phase because they incorrectly think working on timing with practice tests right after learning the basics is more important. Developing good LSAT skills and habits through lots of tedious repetitive slow motion drilling is the key to raising score range. Taking timed practice tests doesn't improve skills, it just measures them and gives you a corresponding number. Drilling with quality review is what improves skills and score range.

The majority of the time consuming work necessary to achieve a high score needs to be spent in phase 2.

...

Phase 1: learn LSAT fundamentals, techniques, concepts, question types, strategies, etc., get familiar with how they relate to LSAT questions, get familiar with working through question types, etc.
This = reading prep books/taking a full length class

Phase 2: learn how to apply the knowledge gained during phase 1 effectively, practice and review that a lot to get really really good at properly applying everything when you are supposed to. Basically, get good at applying everything, review thoroughly and deeply with a focused approach. Constantly evaluate strengths and weaknesses through review to guide drilling and review of fundamentals. This is the phase where the work directly translates to improving skills and abilities and is thus the most important.
This = lots of focused and organized drilling and review, almost all untimed.

Phase 3: put it all together in section/full test format with lots of practice and detailed review including implementing time management strategies and making adjustments.
This = mainly timed practice tests and review with some drilling.

Posted: **Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:47 am**

thank you for the response. sorry to be blunt, but how should i be "analyzing" my answer choices?

this is what I am doing now:

since i am drilling, all the problems generally are of the same kind. and what i end up doing is writing down why my correct answer is correct and why the others are wrong. and then after i'm done with a packet, i look through my answers and look for patterns in my reasoning for right and wrong answers. i do this for every question, regardless of right or wrong. what this helps me do is that at the end of a packet, I can look back and see what type of answers are generally correct and what are trap answer choice patterns for certain LR questions. (i only do this for LR; for LG i do each game three times and generally get it by the end). i do this in hopes that come about july (8 weeks before exam), I can enter full length PTs and when i see a certain LR, I understand what I should be looking for.

i'm really lost as to what else i should be looking for when analyzing when drilling. any help or assistance would be greatly appreciated.

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