Where to go from here? Forum

[Bilka]

A little background:
I started studying for the LSAT back in January using 7sage. (Around 15-20hrs a week) I completed the course and started PTing towards the end of February. Scores are as follows
PT37 - 153 PT38 - 156 PT39 - 153 PT40 - 152 PT41 - 158
After taking pretest 41 in the first week of March. I decided to get a personal tutor, because I'd like to score at the very least, 167 or above. Since then (the last two months) I have been focusing on better understanding LR (my weakest section) with my tutors help and the LSAT Trainer.
So after two months of rigorously studying LR (again at 15-20hrs/week), I decided it was time to PT again.

Yesterday: PT 42 - A disappointing 159
I was still at the 5 minute mark at questions 19/20 for LR, like before. I analyzed this test a bit further. LG was -0. LR -8. LR-10. RC -10
I noticed that for both sections of LR, from #1-14, were -0. That was definitely new. I also noticed I got the highest blind review score I ever have, 170. From this I hypothesize that I have a better understanding on the material, but cant handle the time pressure. I also may need to get warmed up again with PTing, since this was my first PT after 2 months.

I would really appreciate anyones insight on what I should do next.
I've decided not to take in June and wait till Sept. I just feel so defeated and lost.
Thanks

[papercut]

A little background:
I started studying for the LSAT back in January using 7sage. (Around 15-20hrs a week) I completed the course and started PTing towards the end of February. Scores are as follows
PT37 - 153 PT38 - 156 PT39 - 153 PT40 - 152 PT41 - 158
After taking pretest 41 in the first week of March. I decided to get a personal tutor, because I'd like to score at the very least, 167 or above. Since then (the last two months) I have been focusing on better understanding LR (my weakest section) with my tutors help and the LSAT Trainer.
So after two months of rigorously studying LR (again at 15-20hrs/week), I decided it was time to PT again.

Yesterday: PT 42 - A disappointing 159
I was still at the 5 minute mark at questions 19/20 for LR, like before. I analyzed this test a bit further. LG was -0. LR -8. LR-10. RC -10
I noticed that for both sections of LR, from #1-14, were -0. That was definitely new. I also noticed I got the highest blind review score I ever have, 170. From this I hypothesize that I have a better understanding on the material, but cant handle the time pressure. I also may need to get warmed up again with PTing, since this was my first PT after 2 months.

I would really appreciate anyones insight on what I should do next.
I've decided not to take in June and wait till Sept. I just feel so defeated and lost.
Thanks

For LR are you reading the question stem first?

[Bilka]

For LR are you reading the question stem first?

1. Stem
2.Conclusion
3. Support
4. Relationship
5. Answer Choices

Though it doesnt always go as planned.

[papercut]

For LR are you reading the question stem first?

1. Stem
2.Conclusion
3. Support
4. Relationship
5. Answer Choices

Though it doesnt always go as planned.

That approach makes sense for some questions. You know, must be true questions don't usually contain arguments, and if they do, you shouldn't care that it's an argument.

Okay, so good stem first.

Now, do you have the LSAT flaws memorized?

[Bilka]

Okay, so good stem first.

Now, do you have the LSAT flaws memorized?

Yes, I spent a lot of time focusing on identifying flaws during those two months (Cause vs correlation, ad hominem, sufficient necessary confusion, part/whole, etc.) . To the point where I can read a passage and anticipate Flaw answer choices, but again, there are always flaw questions where this is easier said than done.

[papercut]

Okay, so good stem first.

Now, do you have the LSAT flaws memorized?

Yes, I spent a lot of time focusing on identifying flaws during those two months (Cause vs correlation, ad hominem, sufficient necessary confusion, part/whole, etc.) . To the point where I can read a passage and anticipate Flaw answer choices, but again, there are always flaw questions where this is easier said than done.

Okay, next question.

Are you using your knowledge of the flaws to figure out why exactly the wrong answer chocies are wrong?

E.g. - "A doesn't work, unless you equivocate on blablabl"

[Bilka]

Okay, next question.

Are you using your knowledge of the flaws to figure out why exactly the wrong answer chocies are wrong?

E.g. - "A doesn't work, unless you equivocate on blablabl"

For the first 12 to 13 questions, yes. Then it gets a bit difficult. I either second guess myself, thinking I didnt identify the flaw correctly or I cant identify the flaw.


thank you for doing this

[papercut]

Okay, next question.

Are you using your knowledge of the flaws to figure out why exactly the wrong answer chocies are wrong?

E.g. - "A doesn't work, unless you equivocate on blablabl"

For the first 12 to 13 questions, yes. Then it gets a bit difficult. I either second guess myself, thinking I didnt identify the flaw correctly or I cant identify the flaw.


thank you for doing this

Okay, so there's a very particular weakness that you can work on. When you go over your answers you need to painstakingly label all the wrong answer choices with a solid explanation that relies heavily on the LSAT flaws. DO NOT JUST SAY "THE STIMULUS DOESN'T MENTION THAT." That's a cop out. Find the flaw they're trying to sucker people into committing.

Next question:

Are you doing the first 10 questions in ~11 minutes? Usually when people have issues with timing it's because it goes wrong from the start.

[Bilka]

Okay, so there's a very particular weakness that you can work on. When you go over your answers you need to painstakingly label all the wrong answer choices with a solid explanation that relies heavily on the LSAT flaws. DO NOT JUST SAY "THE STIMULUS DOESN'T MENTION THAT." That's a cop out. Find the flaw they're trying to sucker people into committing.

Next question:

Are you doing the first 10 questions in ~11 minutes? Usually when people have issues with timing it's because it goes wrong from the start.

Do you mean to label all argument questions with flaws or just Flaw questions that I miss? (does LSAC have a list of common flaws?)

Can you explain what you mean by eliminating wrong ACs with flaws?

//

I've been timing myself on the first 10 with the earlier PTs (1-35). But the problem is I recognize a lot of these questions from practice and do get around 10-12 minutes for the first 10.

When I was timing myself for the last PT I took (42) it was around 14-16min for the first 10. I dont want to use the later PTs to practice, because I can use those as fresh tests.

[papercut]

Okay, so there's a very particular weakness that you can work on. When you go over your answers you need to painstakingly label all the wrong answer choices with a solid explanation that relies heavily on the LSAT flaws. DO NOT JUST SAY "THE STIMULUS DOESN'T MENTION THAT." That's a cop out. Find the flaw they're trying to sucker people into committing.

Next question:

Are you doing the first 10 questions in ~11 minutes? Usually when people have issues with timing it's because it goes wrong from the start.

Do you mean to label all argument questions with flaws or just Flaw questions that I miss? (does LSAC have a list of common flaws?)

//

I've been timing myself on the first 10 with the earlier PTs (1-35). But the problem is I recognize a lot of these questions from practice and do get around 10-12 minutes for the first 10.

When I was timing myself for the last PT I took (42) it was around 14-16min for the first 10. I dont want to use the later PTs to practice, because I can use those as fresh tests.

For every single LR question type, when you get to the answer choices you need to know why the answer choice is wrong. you need to think something like, "This answer choice is trying to sucker me into conflating percentages with amounts." Don't ever settle for thinking, "This answer choice is wrong because the topic doesn't come up in the stimulus."

There's your timing issue. You said you were about 5 minute behind, and you're doing the first 10 in 14-16min instead of ~11 mins.

Redoing questions you've seen already is not just fine, it's essential IMO. You should keep redoing them. One of the benefits you'll get is that you'll start to get a feel for what 11 minutes for the first 10 feels like.

Have your LSAT tutor give you the list of LSAT flaws. If he/she doesn't you can PM me, since I don't quite feel like typing them out ATM. You definitely need to know what these are - there are about 15 of them (some have subtypes so the exact number will vary). You need to know them by heart.


If I were you, I would stop doing timed PTs for a while. You need to know how to do things correctly before you try to do em correctly and quickly.

If you keep doing timed PTs you will just end up reinforcing a bunch of bad habits.

Instead, do this:

1. Do a question
2. Review it immediately
- this is important because all the issues you had with it are fresh in your mind
- don't stop until you know for sure why the wrong answers are wrong, like it should be painfully obvious why they are wrong, and you should be able to name the flaw they're trying to make you fall for
3. Think about how you could have better anticipated the correct answer choice.
4. If you got the question wrong - save it somewhere so you can go back and review it later
5. Get on TLS and post any specific things that you're not sure about this question

[Bilka]

Okay, so there's a very particular weakness that you can work on. When you go over your answers you need to painstakingly label all the wrong answer choices with a solid explanation that relies heavily on the LSAT flaws. DO NOT JUST SAY "THE STIMULUS DOESN'T MENTION THAT." That's a cop out. Find the flaw they're trying to sucker people into committing.

Next question:

Are you doing the first 10 questions in ~11 minutes? Usually when people have issues with timing it's because it goes wrong from the start.

Do you mean to label all argument questions with flaws or just Flaw questions that I miss? (does LSAC have a list of common flaws?)

//

I've been timing myself on the first 10 with the earlier PTs (1-35). But the problem is I recognize a lot of these questions from practice and do get around 10-12 minutes for the first 10.

When I was timing myself for the last PT I took (42) it was around 14-16min for the first 10. I dont want to use the later PTs to practice, because I can use those as fresh tests.

For every single LR question type, when you get to the answer choices you need to know why the answer choice is wrong. you need to think something like, "This answer choice is trying to sucker me into conflating percentages with amounts." Don't ever settle for thinking, "This answer choice is wrong because the topic doesn't come up in the stimulus."

There's your timing issue. You said you were about 5 minute behind, and you're doing the first 10 in 14-16min instead of ~11 mins.

Redoing questions you've seen already is not just fine, it's essential IMO. You should keep redoing them. One of the benefits you'll get is that you'll start to get a feel for what 11 minutes for the first 10 feels like.

Have your LSAT tutor give you the list of LSAT flaws. If he/she doesn't you can PM me, since I don't quite feel like typing them out ATM. You definitely need to know what these are - there are about 15 of them (some have subtypes so the exact number will vary). You need to know them by heart.


If I were you, I would stop doing timed PTs for a while. You need to know how to do things correctly before you try to do em correctly and quickly.

If you keep doing timed PTs you will just end up reinforcing a bunch of bad habits.

Instead, do this:

1. Do a question
2. Review it immediately
- this is important because all the issues you had with it are fresh in your mind
- don't stop until you know for sure why the wrong answers are wrong, like it should be painfully obvious why they are wrong, and you should be able to name the flaw they're trying to make you fall for
3. Think about how you could have better anticipated the correct answer choice.
4. If you got the question wrong - save it somewhere so you can go back and review it later
5. Get on TLS and post any specific things that you're not sure about this question

Thank you for all the help.

I'm going to PM you what he gave me, let me know if it looks right.

Thanks again

[papercut]

You're welcome. Keep at it yo. You'll get better. LR is rough.

[rmcmanus]

I started studying in March and my biggest issue was just getting through the questions fast enough. In the past ten days i have taken 5 PTS on top of 4-6 timed sections daily. Each PT i have improved on, and my best score i received today was 12 points higher than my diagnostic and 6 points higher than my pt 10 days ago. You just need to build up endurance. Push yourself. I still need to improve on RC, i am bit slow at that, and good lord is it boring.

[papercut]

I started studying in March and my biggest issue was just getting through the questions fast enough. In the past ten days i have taken 5 PTS on top of 4-6 timed sections daily. Each PT i have improved on, and my best score i received today was 12 points higher than my diagnostic and 6 points higher than my pt 10 days ago. You just need to build up endurance. Push yourself. I still need to improve on RC, i am bit slow at that, and good lord is it boring.

You gotta get real interested in the RC passages. If you think they're boring you won't do as well.

Try to stay psychotically positive. "Oh shit I always wanted to learn more about drilling muds!"

Your mind won't wander as much if you're interested in what you're reading.

Good luck homes

[Bilka]

I started studying in March and my biggest issue was just getting through the questions fast enough. In the past ten days i have taken 5 PTS on top of 4-6 timed sections daily. Each PT i have improved on, and my best score i received today was 12 points higher than my diagnostic and 6 points higher than my pt 10 days ago. You just need to build up endurance. Push yourself. I still need to improve on RC, i am bit slow at that, and good lord is it boring.

Nice!

I've decided today to do a timed section everyday of what I have been studying that day. LR RC or LG

That's one thing I have not been doing consistently. I have been timing every once in awhile.

[alexrodriguez]

Just keep at it and give yourself a break from studying at least once a week.

I sometimes have trouble with timing on LR questions as well.

Often times I get stuck on a disagree question. They are my bane...

Just learn to skip questions that you know are going to give you trouble.

If you read a stimulus and have no idea whats going on and you know its question 15-19... you may be better off skipping it.

Come back to it when you know you have time rather than wasting it upfront.

[alexrodriguez]

Does your focus sometimes drift?

Every now and then I'll have to reread a question and then reread it and then reread it.

Be aware of this, and read deliberately. I've learned that if I don't reread anything I'll have ample time for every question.

Sometimes you have to slow your pace in order to do this... but as well all know, sometimes it's better to be the turtle going slow and steady.

[Bilka]

Does your focus sometimes drift?

Every now and then I'll have to reread a question and then reread it and then reread it.

Be aware of this, and read deliberately. I've learned that if I don't reread anything I'll have ample time for every question.

Sometimes you have to slow your pace in order to do this... but as well all know, sometimes it's better to be the turtle going slow and steady.

YES! Several times, ESPECIALLY UNDER TIME, I will read the first two sentences of a stimulus and go back and read again because I was just not focusing. Thanks for the great advice!

[MassiveSplit]

Does your focus sometimes drift?

Every now and then I'll have to reread a question and then reread it and then reread it.

Be aware of this, and read deliberately. I've learned that if I don't reread anything I'll have ample time for every question.

Sometimes you have to slow your pace in order to do this... but as well all know, sometimes it's better to be the turtle going slow and steady.

YES! Several times, ESPECIALLY UNDER TIME, I will read the first two sentences of a stimulus and go back and read again because I was just not focusing. Thanks for the great advice!

I had this same issue. Take a 3-5 second deep breath before every question. Saves time in the long run by not having to reread IMO.