Slightly OT: Oct LSAT and Dec GMAT, or vice versa?
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:02 pm
Hello, all. First post after poking around the TLS forums for a couple of weeks. More of a sprawling disquisition than a post...hey, it's Saturday.
I could use some general advice, but this sub-forum seemed the most relevant. I'll set things out chronologically and summarize as quickly as I can, but in the interest of giving the full set-up to my situation, what follows is a condensed version of my life story as an adult. Here's the tl;dr version:
1) I have been out of school a long time, and
2) I'm looking to do either a JD, an MBA, or both together but my LSAT diagnostic scores are not where I expected them to be, so
3) I'm thinking of pushing the LSAT back to December and taking the GMAT in October, though my GMAT will suffer.
[Passes out mugs of cocoa.]
In my well-known liberal arts college I was extremely studious but spent the bulk of my time learning things other than what we were assigned. I didn't care about GPA, so that ended up slightly below 3 [sometimes less than three != <3]. The final semester came around, and in the middle of it I started a business, withdrew from a couple of classes at the last minute, and just let my degree float away. This didn't bother me much at first, as I didn't go to college to get a piece of paper but rather to learn, and I learned a hell of a lot. But then the business came to nothing and -- not to point fingers -- regrets were had.
For the next several years I worked a series of jobs I found interesting. Pretty varied stuff, but nothing that could lead to what most educated people would consider a real career. I decided I should do something bigger, so I tried to finish my degree (easier said than done at the time), got a job with more responsibility, took the LSAT, was waitlisted at a top-10 and offered a scholarship at a tier-2. The degree didn't happen so neither did law school.
But something good came out of shaking things up. Over many years leading up to this I had done a lot of studying, training and practicing as a musician, so the preparations were in place to turn myself into an actual working classical musician. I took a bunch of classes at a community college with a good music program, and pretty soon I was up on stage. Eventually I was being invited to perform in places I'd never been.
I have been a performer for the past decade, and it's deeply gratifying, but there is still no guarantee that I will make it into the group of 20, maybe 30, soloists within my niche who make a decent living performing "my" repertoire from year to year. Conservatories graduate hundreds of people every year who think (often with good reason) they can make it big in exactly this same miniscule category, which means that not only is competition fierce, but signal-to-noise is unfavorable as well. I'm married and want to start a family, and I can't do that until I'm at least headed for a less unpredictable career -- risk is fine, but not 100-to-1 risk.
Earlier this year I did a startup incubator program, because I had a pretty cool idea for a product and a compelling-to-me vision of more sophisticated products that should become technically feasible starting in 3-5 years. It went well, and I learned a lot, and I think I am well-suited to thrive in that "scene" but it's hard to get anyone to take me seriously when I have no degree. Not only no engineering degree, but no degree at all. So that's on hold, but I do plan to end up back in new technologies.
A few weeks ago I spoke to people at my undergrad once again, and discussed the academic efforts I've made and the artistic projects I've completed since leaving. We're still hashing out details, but it seems that, with some work and some hoop-jumping, I finally should have my BA this academic year. Also this month, I've reached out to the Native American tribe from which my family traces part of our descent, so I may be eligible for something in the way of scholarship funds. And now I will be able to check an additional box on my applications. The rest of my family is registered with the tribe so this should be a done deal.
Here's what I'm thinking about:
EITHER A 3-YEAR JD/MBA AT:
Yale, Penn, Columbia, Cornell
OR JD AT:
Yale, Stanford, Chicago, Columbia, Penn, Berkeley, NYU
OR MBA AT:
Stanford, Penn, Univ. of London, MIT, Berkeley, Cornell, UCLA, Cambridge, USC
The reason for stopping myself so high in the law school rankings is the spooky-scary news about legal careers I've read here and on Prof. Campos's blog. It's certainly not prestige-driven on my own part; I would be happy to go to BU or Rutgers or U of Oklahoma if this were just a matter of adsorbing doctrine and crossing the bar. But, sadly, this is where I stop being too proud to do anything the normal way, and pay reluctant obeisance to credentialism. (Sort of a moral inversion of the classic, "I like girls, but now...it's about justice.") The word on the street about MBA programs is to stay within the top 25, top 10 if possible, much like the advice to stay within T-6 or at least T-14 JD programs, but the regional effect for MBAs seems to be stronger than that for JDs, so if a business school has name recognition in a given region, an MBA from there probably will serve its holder well within that region. This is what anonymous people on the internet tell me.
Now to the problem.
[Collects mugs.]
Excited about all the possibilities, I ran out to Amazon and bought The LSAT Trainer and a couple of "Actual, Official" books. This week I read the first few chapters and took a practice test to see where I stood. At 170, it was four points lower than my Dec 1998 score (yes, I sat for the "reptile house" test) but I told myself it's natural I would be a little rusty after fifteen years, and besides it was a weird old LSAT, PT7. Who would let race officials assign runners to charities?
So I waited a couple of days and took another, much more recent test this morning, PT52. I ended up with a 165 and was quite concerned. I made a couple of time-pressure errors in LR, which doesn't worry me; and after agonizing way too long over an RC question about cinema and Marxism, I flipped a coin (mentally) and it was the other choice, though this doesn't worry me either; but I bombed LG. Carpet-bombed, as in -12. The sorting problems are dead easy if you have enough time but they are so hard for me when I feel rushed. I used to do LG with no diagrams and I did fairly well. Now I do what everyone says is merely common sense, and sully the perfect surface of the test with my chicken scratch...but I feel dumb and slightly panicked.
Am I in as much trouble as I feel? Should I push my LSAT registration back to December? I had planned to take it in October and take the GMAT in December, because although I spent a good month on Khan Academy last year (for personal development), I know my Quantitative score will need help. Right now I could go on a light study plan for the LSAT plus a heavier one for GMAT Quant, do the GMAT in early- or mid-October, and then re-focus on the LSAT.
I've posted this here rather than on an GMAT/MBA site because the LSAT is the more important score. I'll get somewhere between a 660 and a 730 on the GMAT, which should be close enough for horseshoes; but I was assuming that with a little study I could get somewhere north of 174 on the LSAT, since the first time around I studied for it only briefly yet my practice tests (in 1998, haha) were coming in 171-177. As much of a stretch as my stretch schools are, I'm assuming all of them would be ruled out if I didn't get 174 or better.
Your thoughts? Thanks, everyone.
And hello, admissions people! You'll recognize my application when it comes a-trundling on by. Some of the stuff above is a little embarrassing, but after participating for years on an anonymous board for musicians -- they are not always a contented lot and conductors are not always accepting of criticism, constructive or otherwise -- I lack the patience to obscure my particulars any longer. Besides, I have no interesting secrets, and at this early stage hold no animosity towards any school or scholar. ^__^
I could use some general advice, but this sub-forum seemed the most relevant. I'll set things out chronologically and summarize as quickly as I can, but in the interest of giving the full set-up to my situation, what follows is a condensed version of my life story as an adult. Here's the tl;dr version:
1) I have been out of school a long time, and
2) I'm looking to do either a JD, an MBA, or both together but my LSAT diagnostic scores are not where I expected them to be, so
3) I'm thinking of pushing the LSAT back to December and taking the GMAT in October, though my GMAT will suffer.
[Passes out mugs of cocoa.]
In my well-known liberal arts college I was extremely studious but spent the bulk of my time learning things other than what we were assigned. I didn't care about GPA, so that ended up slightly below 3 [sometimes less than three != <3]. The final semester came around, and in the middle of it I started a business, withdrew from a couple of classes at the last minute, and just let my degree float away. This didn't bother me much at first, as I didn't go to college to get a piece of paper but rather to learn, and I learned a hell of a lot. But then the business came to nothing and -- not to point fingers -- regrets were had.
For the next several years I worked a series of jobs I found interesting. Pretty varied stuff, but nothing that could lead to what most educated people would consider a real career. I decided I should do something bigger, so I tried to finish my degree (easier said than done at the time), got a job with more responsibility, took the LSAT, was waitlisted at a top-10 and offered a scholarship at a tier-2. The degree didn't happen so neither did law school.
But something good came out of shaking things up. Over many years leading up to this I had done a lot of studying, training and practicing as a musician, so the preparations were in place to turn myself into an actual working classical musician. I took a bunch of classes at a community college with a good music program, and pretty soon I was up on stage. Eventually I was being invited to perform in places I'd never been.
I have been a performer for the past decade, and it's deeply gratifying, but there is still no guarantee that I will make it into the group of 20, maybe 30, soloists within my niche who make a decent living performing "my" repertoire from year to year. Conservatories graduate hundreds of people every year who think (often with good reason) they can make it big in exactly this same miniscule category, which means that not only is competition fierce, but signal-to-noise is unfavorable as well. I'm married and want to start a family, and I can't do that until I'm at least headed for a less unpredictable career -- risk is fine, but not 100-to-1 risk.
Earlier this year I did a startup incubator program, because I had a pretty cool idea for a product and a compelling-to-me vision of more sophisticated products that should become technically feasible starting in 3-5 years. It went well, and I learned a lot, and I think I am well-suited to thrive in that "scene" but it's hard to get anyone to take me seriously when I have no degree. Not only no engineering degree, but no degree at all. So that's on hold, but I do plan to end up back in new technologies.
A few weeks ago I spoke to people at my undergrad once again, and discussed the academic efforts I've made and the artistic projects I've completed since leaving. We're still hashing out details, but it seems that, with some work and some hoop-jumping, I finally should have my BA this academic year. Also this month, I've reached out to the Native American tribe from which my family traces part of our descent, so I may be eligible for something in the way of scholarship funds. And now I will be able to check an additional box on my applications. The rest of my family is registered with the tribe so this should be a done deal.
Here's what I'm thinking about:
EITHER A 3-YEAR JD/MBA AT:
Yale, Penn, Columbia, Cornell
OR JD AT:
Yale, Stanford, Chicago, Columbia, Penn, Berkeley, NYU
OR MBA AT:
Stanford, Penn, Univ. of London, MIT, Berkeley, Cornell, UCLA, Cambridge, USC
The reason for stopping myself so high in the law school rankings is the spooky-scary news about legal careers I've read here and on Prof. Campos's blog. It's certainly not prestige-driven on my own part; I would be happy to go to BU or Rutgers or U of Oklahoma if this were just a matter of adsorbing doctrine and crossing the bar. But, sadly, this is where I stop being too proud to do anything the normal way, and pay reluctant obeisance to credentialism. (Sort of a moral inversion of the classic, "I like girls, but now...it's about justice.") The word on the street about MBA programs is to stay within the top 25, top 10 if possible, much like the advice to stay within T-6 or at least T-14 JD programs, but the regional effect for MBAs seems to be stronger than that for JDs, so if a business school has name recognition in a given region, an MBA from there probably will serve its holder well within that region. This is what anonymous people on the internet tell me.
Now to the problem.
[Collects mugs.]
Excited about all the possibilities, I ran out to Amazon and bought The LSAT Trainer and a couple of "Actual, Official" books. This week I read the first few chapters and took a practice test to see where I stood. At 170, it was four points lower than my Dec 1998 score (yes, I sat for the "reptile house" test) but I told myself it's natural I would be a little rusty after fifteen years, and besides it was a weird old LSAT, PT7. Who would let race officials assign runners to charities?
So I waited a couple of days and took another, much more recent test this morning, PT52. I ended up with a 165 and was quite concerned. I made a couple of time-pressure errors in LR, which doesn't worry me; and after agonizing way too long over an RC question about cinema and Marxism, I flipped a coin (mentally) and it was the other choice, though this doesn't worry me either; but I bombed LG. Carpet-bombed, as in -12. The sorting problems are dead easy if you have enough time but they are so hard for me when I feel rushed. I used to do LG with no diagrams and I did fairly well. Now I do what everyone says is merely common sense, and sully the perfect surface of the test with my chicken scratch...but I feel dumb and slightly panicked.
Am I in as much trouble as I feel? Should I push my LSAT registration back to December? I had planned to take it in October and take the GMAT in December, because although I spent a good month on Khan Academy last year (for personal development), I know my Quantitative score will need help. Right now I could go on a light study plan for the LSAT plus a heavier one for GMAT Quant, do the GMAT in early- or mid-October, and then re-focus on the LSAT.
I've posted this here rather than on an GMAT/MBA site because the LSAT is the more important score. I'll get somewhere between a 660 and a 730 on the GMAT, which should be close enough for horseshoes; but I was assuming that with a little study I could get somewhere north of 174 on the LSAT, since the first time around I studied for it only briefly yet my practice tests (in 1998, haha) were coming in 171-177. As much of a stretch as my stretch schools are, I'm assuming all of them would be ruled out if I didn't get 174 or better.
Your thoughts? Thanks, everyone.
And hello, admissions people! You'll recognize my application when it comes a-trundling on by. Some of the stuff above is a little embarrassing, but after participating for years on an anonymous board for musicians -- they are not always a contented lot and conductors are not always accepting of criticism, constructive or otherwise -- I lack the patience to obscure my particulars any longer. Besides, I have no interesting secrets, and at this early stage hold no animosity towards any school or scholar. ^__^