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I can possibly see how RC and LR may allow some folks to do very well on them in cold diagnostics, but what about LG?

Is this a portion of the LSAT that pretty much every single person has to practice and learn. Given the complexity of some games, it wouldn't seem like a person could just intuitively solve them all or can they? Are there people who just have a LG knack from scratch and can do little work?

Some people are just good at it intuitively. Easiest example I can think of are engineers. Engineering diagrams make logic games look like child's play. Also philosophy grad students whose emphasis is in symbolic logic. The kind of diagrams and hypos they have to do trump almost anything the LSAT can throw at them. Or if your mind is just good at compartmentalizing lots of information, rules, and variables and then finding efficient ways to make them play out.

LG was the section I struggled most with but I still went -3 on my cold diagnostic.

Just depends on the person. But to answer your question yes, certain people can do that I'm sure. Not many but some. Either way though, knowing game types, how to diagram, and practicing is useful and important for anyone in regards to LGs.

Yea, puzzlers, engineers, math/physics/compsci majors, and some other groups do just fine on LG their first time through. I grew up doing puzzles before majoring in biochem and I hit the ground running on the games section.

I got every question right on my first LG section but that was without using a timer. What was most difficult for me was learning how to do the most complex questions quickly. I had assumed it was just a matter of working faster but I think formally learning about contrapositives and various diagraming techniques helped immensely.

I got all my LG questions right on my timed diagnostic test. But, I did quite badly on LR so I guess I'm the opposite of what you expected.

I'm not a math/physics/compsci/engineer but I did grow up solving these kinds of problems at home and at school (not for fun, mind you).

My first cd test I got one mistake on logic games. Every practice test I ever took I never missed more than three questions in LG. I never studied LG or read about eg different types of games.

I just took the June 07 Preptest cold, did not even know what could be on the test and I missed only 1, and that was just a stupid mistake. That was untimed, if time was a factor, I would have missed another 5.

Chad

First PT I took I got -1 on a stupid question, completely reasonable. Just like how you hear of people who cold test at 170+ the first time. It's rare, very rare, but very plausible.

I just took my first PT a few weeks ago and got -2 on LG. LG comes easy to some people. The section that I'll have to work on is LR.

i never missed a question on LG from diagnostic to actual

The first time I looked at a PT (the June, 2007 one), I only did one section of LR and the LG section, both untimed, because I only wanted to test my aptitude for the material. I missed 7 on LR and none on LG. IIRC, it took me about 40 minutes to finish the LR section and about 50 minutes to finish the games. If I had tried them timed, I suspect it would have been brutal, though.

The hardest part of LG for me (and I suspect for most people) was trying to do them in the allotted time, and that took a month of practicing what I had learned from reading PowerScore's LG bible. I've heard of some people killing a timed LG section cold, but I certainly couldn't.

I did very well on my first try, can't remember if I aced it. But certainly aced it on almost every PT I did. I love doing crossword puzzles, sudoku, kenken, etc. so the LG were always really easy for me, and honestly I thought they were kind of fun .

I aced LG on my first practice test, so I assume I would've on the real thing if I hadn't taken a practice. Although I used to do those logic puzzle magazines back when I was a kid, which is basically the same thing. I highly recommend those for anyone who needs extra practice.

LG came pretty naturally to me. I haven't done any studying/reading about them and I usually end up with -1 or -2 in it. I also did a bunch of those logic games as a kid, that really does help.

jtabustos wrote:I can possibly see how RC and LR may allow some folks to do very well on them in cold diagnostics, but what about LG?

Is this a portion of the LSAT that pretty much every single person has to practice and learn. Given the complexity of some games, it wouldn't seem like a person could just intuitively solve them all or can they? Are there people who just have a LG knack from scratch and can do little work?

On my "cold" PT (the online freebie) I went -3 on LG because I ran out of time with 3 questions left, so I didn't miss any questions I had time to read. That actually made it my worst section though; I only missed 2 other questions on that PT for a total -5, 174.

Meant to spend some time prepping/studying for the February test (a few weeks ago), but time slipped away - I never even did another practice test. I just went over a few LG questions in the car before I walked in to the testing center to get my mind a little more in gear. Wound up with a 177 (score came today); I'm pretty sure I went -2 on LG, although I'll obviously never know for sure since it was a non-disclosed test.

xjcsa wrote:

jtabustos wrote:I can possibly see how RC and LR may allow some folks to do very well on them in cold diagnostics, but what about LG?

Is this a portion of the LSAT that pretty much every single person has to practice and learn. Given the complexity of some games, it wouldn't seem like a person could just intuitively solve them all or can they? Are there people who just have a LG knack from scratch and can do little work?

On my "cold" PT (the online freebie) I went -3 on LG because I ran out of time with 3 questions left, so I didn't miss any questions I had time to read. That actually made it my worst section though; I only missed 2 other questions on that PT for a total -5, 174.

Meant to spend some time prepping/studying for the February test (a few weeks ago), but time slipped away - I never even did another practice test. I just went over a few LG questions in the car before I walked in to the testing center to get my mind a little more in gear. Wound up with a 177 (score came today); I'm pretty sure I went -2 on LG, although I'll obviously never know for sure since it was a non-disclosed test.

Your brain scares me. If you really pulled that off, you're probably some sort of genius. I hope we don't end up at the same law school as 1Ls.

xjcsa wrote:

jtabustos wrote:I can possibly see how RC and LR may allow some folks to do very well on them in cold diagnostics, but what about LG?

Is this a portion of the LSAT that pretty much every single person has to practice and learn. Given the complexity of some games, it wouldn't seem like a person could just intuitively solve them all or can they? Are there people who just have a LG knack from scratch and can do little work?

On my "cold" PT (the online freebie) I went -3 on LG because I ran out of time with 3 questions left, so I didn't miss any questions I had time to read. That actually made it my worst section though; I only missed 2 other questions on that PT for a total -5, 174.

Meant to spend some time prepping/studying for the February test (a few weeks ago), but time slipped away - I never even did another practice test. I just went over a few LG questions in the car before I walked in to the testing center to get my mind a little more in gear. Wound up with a 177 (score came today); I'm pretty sure I went -2 on LG, although I'll obviously never know for sure since it was a non-disclosed test.

Well done.

FantasticMrFox wrote:I got all my LG questions right on my timed diagnostic test. But, I did quite badly on LR so I guess I'm the opposite of what you expected.

I'm not a math/physics/compsci/engineer but I did grow up solving these kinds of problems at home and at school (not for fun, mind you).

Interesting. But wait...you did this problems "not for fun" when you were young? Who made you do these? lol

Any books/guides you'd recommend to get better at them?

So...this was quite interesting. It seems like a lot of you posters did these logic games as a kid.

Out of curiosity, how did that come about? Where did you even find these games as a kid to do? I mostly played video games. hahaha. Never did such games. Any books/guides that helped you learn to do them as a kid?

Did anyone actually just literally start getting them all right even as a kid (like the very first few times you even did them)?

jtabustos wrote:So...this was quite interesting. It seems like a lot of you posters did these logic games as a kid.

Out of curiosity, how did that come about? Where did you even find these games as a kid to do? I mostly played video games. hahaha. Never did such games. Any books/guides that helped you learn to do them as a kid?

Did anyone actually just literally start getting them all right even as a kid (like the very first few times you even did them)?

My Mom had a subscription to Games magazine. She also bought me puzzle books. And when my grade school teachers were too hung over to teach (in retrospect, you realize these things - think back), they'd hand out those puzzles that said stuff like, "Suzy, Jim, Frank, and Terrence live on Bleeker St. They each own a pet, which might be a fish, dog, cat, or orangutan. Etc..."

And while it probably took me longer the first few times, there weren't really time constraints, so I'm sure I figured it out eventually.

jtabustos wrote:So...this was quite interesting. It seems like a lot of you posters did these logic games as a kid.

Out of curiosity, how did that come about? Where did you even find these games as a kid to do? I mostly played video games. hahaha. Never did such games. Any books/guides that helped you learn to do them as a kid?

Did anyone actually just literally start getting them all right even as a kid (like the very first few times you even did them)?

Puzzles were a big thing where I was growing up. Most of my friends would do word search, or maybe crossword. Me, I preferred the logic puzzles.

As an aside, anyone who claims they were getting them all right straight away is lying through their teeth, but, if someone did these puzzles regularly, even as a kid, you'll get to the point of being mostly right.

if you are good spatially LG comes natural to you