Max324 wrote:MS415 wrote:Max324 wrote:I want to make a few specific comments on what you wrote:
1. When you assume something, you leave out info that might damage the argument if negated (falsified).
-Negation technique is for necessary assumptions only. (edit: just saw your reply, I know you get it! Belaboring the point for the benefit of others)
2. If you have not left out anything in the argument, you have not assumed anything ( but this seems impossible).
-Not sure what you're getting at here. An argument in an assumption question might be perfectly sound, without a noticeable gap (see my defender assumption example).
3. If you have a justified argument, it means that the argument's premises are enough to bring us to conclusion. But! It does not mean the argument contains no assumptions.
-Think of it this way: a sufficient assumption justifies the conclusion. Sometimes the premises need a little push to get to the conclusion; a sufficient assumption answer can provide that push.
4. If you have falsified an assumption, you have weakened an argument.
-Negate a necessary assumption, weaken an argument.
5. If you have not weakened an argument, then you have not falsified an assumption.
-Basically the contrapositive, if the negated AC doesn't weaken, it's not the necessary assumption.
6. If an assumption is not harmful and not neutral to the argument, it can be used to strengthen it.
7. If you cannot strengthen an argument, then all you have are harmful or biased ( not neutral) assumption(s).
-Assumptions support arguments. A sufficient assumption does this by guaranteeing the conclusion. Necessary defenders defend against a weakener. Necessary supporters link premises. You'll never have a correct assumption that weakens the argument.
Remember, think of necessary and sufficient assumptions like their namesake.
A sufficient assumption is sort of like a sufficient condition to the conclusion (when taken in context). Think: if this sufficient condition occurs, my conclusion, in context, occurs.
A necessary assumption is sort of like a necessary condition to the conclusion. Think: if my conclusion occurs, then my necessary assumption occurs.
Make sense?
Regarding #2, it seems that you are right about the possibility that a defender assumption could exist. But! doesn't the mere existence of a defender assumption entail that we have left out a possibility yet to be verified? Thus, we have left out something. I know this is also belaboring the point. But, my main concern is " if we have not left anything ( absolutely anything, which includes competing possibilities), then we have no assumptions.
It seems we agree on everything else. And your responses don't necessarily bring up any points of disagreement on the others.
Following that logic, every argument is leaving something out. If it helps you to process things that way, fine. Most people are going to take "leaving something out" of an argument to be referring to a "gap", meaning a disconnect between the premises and the conclusion; that's what I was assumed you were referring to.
Also, we do disagree on a few points; you might want to give it another read. Remember that there are no such things as helpful/neutral/harmful assumptions. Assumptions either ensure your conclusion, or are necessary for your conclusion; they won't harm an argument.
I think the bulk of our disagreements come from me being loose/creative with my phrasing of concepts.
For example:
1. I have brought up the term "helpful" and "hurtful" assumptions; for this, I meant regular necessary assumptions (because regular necessary assumptions always help the conclusion if established). For "hurtful" assumptions, I mean to bring up negated necessary assumptions.
2. neutral assumption is where you may have the greatest point. It seems laughable that there are neutral assumptions because we ask " if they have no role in helping or hurting the conclusion...what makes them a necessary assumption or an assumption to begin with? As you bring this up, I have to concede a flaw in my phrasing. But, not in my concept. What I was trying to refer to when I say "neutral" assumption is statements that neither help nor hurt the conclusion.
Let's take an argument for example.
P1: Jack is Hungry
Con: What I have in this box will help Jack
First, we have a necessary assumption/ helpful assumption, among other things, that the box is not empty, not just filled with useless sand, or not filled with packaging peanuts.
Second, we have a sufficient assumption, among others, that what is in the box may be a sandwich, money to buy a sandwich, etc.
neutral assumption may be the box is cardboard, wooden, or metal.
Hurtful assumption may be the box is filled with hunger pills ( to make him more hungry) sorry I got creative here, etc.
Finally, yes. you are right. Following the logic I have used to conclude that we are leaving something out if we have competing possibilities, then we seem to always be leaving somehthing out no matter what we argue. This is the very reason why I claimed in the original #2 note that we cannot have arguments without assumptions because "this seems impossible"