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Has anyone done this? Would it be worth it if it pushed you over the median for HYS? I am interested in a discussion on the costs and benefits of doing this, especially the degree to which getting a 99th percentile score can be influenced by luck and random factors.

Best,
0L

Well, theres Robin Singh...

http://www.testmasters.net/Lsat/Perfection

cough Dave Hall

Why the ambiguity? What did you get? What are you hoping to get? Did you underperform?

I did it, no regrets, but not sure if it helped much at all. It's hard to figure out the risk reward, I still had to study pretty hard, but was looking at a pretty small upside. I ended up trying because (1) I wanted to be above Harvard and Columbia's 75th percentiles to have a chance in hell, and (2) I was tutoring at the time and figured it'd help me get more clients, more $. I think the latter worked out better than the former.

Whether it is worth it depends on what you already scored and your GPA, without further info its useless to give advice. FWIW, I retook a 169 and it greatly improved my cycle.

law2015 wrote:FWIW, I retook a 169 and it greatly improved my cycle.

Yeah, a 169 has got to be the most re-taken score ever, you're just so damn close to being above median, even 1 point would probably be a big help. And you gotta figure anyone who can do 169 can do 170.

Besides school's don't average lsat's so there is no downside besides spending time and money.

law2015 wrote: FWIW, I retook a 169 and it greatly improved my cycle.

Get that 97th percentile shit out of here. jk.

Nova wrote:

law2015 wrote: FWIW, I retook a 169 and it greatly improved my cycle.

Get that 97th percentile shit out of here. jk.

No, I completely agree. Anything below 99th percentile is simply unacceptable.

.

suspicious android wrote:

law2015 wrote:FWIW, I retook a 169 and it greatly improved my cycle.

Yeah, a 169 has got to be the most re-taken score ever, you're just so damn close to being above median, even 1 point would probably be a big help. And you gotta figure anyone who can do 169 can do 170.

...or 159. Think of the angst felt by those people who score 159. That's probably the worst score ever.

law2015 wrote:Besides school's don't average lsat's so there is no downside besides spending time and money.

I am curious where did you find that schools DO NOT average ?
include all T14 schools ?

Anyone in law school at T14 please respond

Thanks

indo wrote:

law2015 wrote:Besides school's don't average lsat's so there is no downside besides spending time and money.

I am curious where did you find that schools DO NOT average ?
include all T14 schools ?

Anyone in law school at T14 please respond

Thanks

There are many people on this site and on LSN who have gotten into T14 with average LSAT scores that are way below what T14 schools accept. Maybe HYS do average because they have more than enough high number candidates, but it would be detrimental for any other law school to do so.

indo wrote:

law2015 wrote:Besides school's don't average lsat's so there is no downside besides spending time and money.

I am curious where did you find that schools DO NOT average ?
include all T14 schools ?

Anyone in law school at T14 please respond

Thanks

One does not need to attend a T14 to answer this. At the bottom of this article, http://www.top-law-schools.com/retaking-the-lsat.html , all schools are listed by what they claim they do. Most school take the highest score. Some schools claim they average, but data suggests otherwise (for instance, a 165/175 would likely do better than a 171).

There are many people on this site and on LSN who have gotten into T14 with average LSAT scores that are way below what T14 schools accept. Maybe HYS do average because they have more than enough high number candidates, but it would be detrimental for any other law school to do so.

Right. Thank USNWR for that

My GPA is 3.90, and my first score was a 174. This was at the low end of my practice test score range. Are there any potential costs I should consider other than the time and energy required to study for the LSAT? I am willing to expend both of those for at least a 1 point increase in June or October.

Am I misguided in thinking that the possibility of getting 1 or 2 more points on the LSAT offsets the risk of scoring lower? Harvard weighs your highest score more heavily, even if it was earned first, right? Increasing my score by even one point would push me over Harvard's median, which is a big consideration in my mind - I am a K-JD.

My greatest fear is that scores in the 99th percentile are heavily influenced by luck, test difficulty, etc. If this is the case, then I would have to weigh the risk of scoring lower as more realistic.

Eager to hear your thoughts.

I think you'll be fine for Harvard without the retake. If you're K-JD, I would apply this cycle and if you're not happy with the results then retake in June 2013. Spending an extra year gaining work experience will probably do more for your than getting another point or two on your LSAT. Again though, I think you're fine at least at H, and you're looking at good money at CCN down.

With the exception of Yale, there is no real downside risk - schools will
Probably just ignore your weaker score.
If you feel you're doing badly, you can cancel. If you did really badly, you could always write an addenda

Yale takes a holistic approach. From other schools that just means they're pry ending scores don't matter, but for Yale it means scores aren't enough. Being above the medians doesn't mean as much as at other schools.
As a K-JD, you have nothing else going for you, really, so if you score significantly lower, that might just be the reason to toss your app out.
Of course, I could be wrong, so keep that in mind, but Yale is as picky as they get

Thanks for all the responses, everyone. More people are interested in this question than I thought.

I guess I'm trying to gauge two things:

(1) to what extent this is true, and how its truth is affected by the order of your tests (particularly as it applies to Harvard, which is my top choice)

dingbat wrote:With the exception of Yale, there is no real downside risk - schools will
Probably just ignore your weaker score.

and (2) whether I can better the odds (in TLS's opinion) of getting into Harvard by scoring higher than a 174 in June. It's been opined already that I have a pretty good shot at H as it is, but I am interested in making it as sure a thing as possible (I really wanna go.) Put differently, is there a sliding scale from 174-180, which correlates to admission probability, that I can move up on by scoring higher on another administration?

Best,
0L

http://www.lsac.org/LSACResources/Data/ ... erData.pdf

Looks like beyond 174 the scores were generally worse. Don't retake.

Retaking seems risky; I wouldn't retake with a 174. Apply this cycle without retaking and if you are not happy then get some WE and MAYBE retake. WE would help way more than an increase on the LSAT would (unless you increase to 177-180).

zozin wrote:http://www.lsac.org/LSACResources/Data/ ... erData.pdf

Looks like beyond 174 the scores were generally worse. Don't retake.

No kidding, only one person who retook a 174 in the whole country improved his or her score. I wonder how many of those people who retook were scoring 175+ consistently in practice tests. Can anyone shed any light, perhaps from personal experience, on the issue of not being able to reproduce 175+ scores on test day despite a practice test average in that range? How much is cracking 175 due to luck and other random factors?

As for WE, does anyone know if a part-time job teaching an LSAT class counts?

Good god bro, how can anybody tell you that with any certainty? If you really want to take the test again then go ahead. Asking questions about people retaking 174s is silly, it's such a small sample who the hell knows what will happen with you. You're above both of H's medians. You have a good shot. Go get find a full time job and see what happens.

A friend was going to retake a 178 to try to get into Yale. She had Harvard and deferred. She had tutored the LSAT over the summer and was convinced that she could get a 180. She refused to listen to reason because she was sure she could do it. It was not until the night before the exam that it finally dawned on her what a fool she would be to retake.

It was nuts. I wouldn't retake a 174. I don't think the extra points will help. If you do worse you will regret it..

Mal Reynolds wrote: You're above both of H's medians.

Is this true? Isn't their LSAT median 174?