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I had been working on the LSAT since Summer 2009 in varying degrees of intensity. After years of practice on and off, I managed to start PTing consistently in the low to mid 170s. There used to be a much longer, detailed post here chronicling the ups and downs but I've since taken that down to protect my anonymity.

You'll see that this post is actually a poll asking readers to see if I'd be able to make it past a 170 after all the time and effort spent.

I eventually succeeded, getting a 97 percentile score after four attempts.

My last attempt, the one in which I scored the highest, was taken "cold" with just 2 PTs in the month prior (despite the years of practice).

How does that work? What can explain such an outcome?

Who knows. That's the LSAT for you.

I've left this post up here for posterity. Let all those who come after me in their struggles with the LSAT know the nature of the beast.

Best of luck to you all. If I could do it, so can you.

Bad advice.

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So you've been living at home preparing for the LSAT full-time since June 2010? If that's really the case (and please correct me if I misread), then I think it's time to take one of those job offers. When LSAT prep is the only thing going on in your life for such a long period of time, you're bound to fall into a rut. It's time to save up some money, make some new contacts, and maybe take a complete break from the LSAT. Come back in a year with fresh eyes and see how it goes; I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. And if you're not, work experience can help your application and lessen the financial burden of law school. It's the way to go in this situation.

StrictlyBusiness wrote: Not saying you can't improve- and I'm sure there are teachers who are much better than I, but this isn't the type of test that you can jump from the 75th percentile to the 95th by practicing a whole lot. Good luck though, and I'd say just go for it soon.

That's just not true. I've had many kids jump from the 75th to 95th percentile (hell, I had one who went from 35th to 97th percentile). The test is very learnable.

To the OP - while the test is learnable, getting into the mid- to high-170s consistently involves really understanding the test on a level that most people won't ever actually do. I think your brain is pretty much saturated right now, so I have to agree with Banjo. If you've really been prepping that much for over two years, I think it's time to take a break, give your brain some work in other areas (i.e. one of those job offers), and come back to it after awhile off. When you come back, you might be surprised how much easier it is to learn more tricks than right now, when you're stuck in a mental rut as far as how to approach the test.

You have been preparing for the LSAT since Summer 2009, signed up for 10 different test dates & only have one score. Consider visiting a psychologist who specializes in testing anxiety/procrastination issues. There is one in the Chicago area who tutors for the LSAT & specializes in test taking anxiety issues & a few in Atlanta. Many in NYC area. I have forgotten their names, but there should be some other like qualified psychologists around the other major cities. Good luck !

bp shinners wrote:

StrictlyBusiness wrote: Not saying you can't improve- and I'm sure there are teachers who are much better than I, but this isn't the type of test that you can jump from the 75th percentile to the 95th by practicing a whole lot. Good luck though, and I'd say just go for it soon.

That's just not true. I've had many kids jump from the 75th to 95th percentile (hell, I had one who went from 35th to 97th percentile). The test is very learnable.

To the OP - while the test is learnable, getting into the mid- to high-170s consistently involves really understanding the test on a level that most people won't ever actually do. I think your brain is pretty much saturated right now, so I have to agree with Banjo. If you've really been prepping that much for over two years, I think it's time to take a break, give your brain some work in other areas (i.e. one of those job offers), and come back to it after awhile off. When you come back, you might be surprised how much easier it is to learn more tricks than right now, when you're stuck in a mental rut as far as how to approach the test.

I think you're right, obviously it can happen and you have experience doing it. I think I misspoke though, what I was getting at and should have said was that you don't make that 10 point improvement from a score that you've already put so much work into achieving. The test is learnable but there is still an aptitude plateau on some level.

Take a job, ditch LSAT and go for GMAT instead. Lawyers make a lot of money, but they have to spend long hours at work and do lot of boring paper work. MBA's are often paid less when compared to lawyers, but the degree gives you a greater variety in jobs. Remember, making money also means being good at work and having those soft skills.

UPDATE: Scored another 169 today (PT 57). So close to 170!
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Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

A couple points to clarify:

I haven't been intensely studying since Summer 2009. For about a year and a half I was dragging my feet. I had done all of BPs lessons, but the homework was being done very intermittently. It's not supposed to be that way. You're supposed to build up into peak form over a set period of time. I would say that I've really been at it since about August-September 2011, and when you think of it like that, that means I've only skipped 1 legitimate test (October 2011).

I haven't even been able to finish all of the Traciela GROUPED BY books I've bought. There's so much more drilling that can be done. I'm willing to take all the modern PTs once or twice more. You all think I still wouldn't break 170 after that?

To the point about having serious anxiety/procrastination issues: those have all been worked out. I've found motivation, am driven to succeed, and have been on top of my regimen every day. Time management is handled. For my earlier attempts, anyone who knows they've never broken a 170 and wants a 170 on test day will be anxious about walking in. There's nothing pathological about that. You need to think of it in those terms. If someone is scoring that high and still balks at the test day, then there's a test anxiety problem. And no, I don't freak out during the actual test. I was calm as a bomb on December 2011 (and even my first exam which I cancelled October 2010).

Some of you are recommending I take some time off, then return. The last time I tried to get a job and do other things, I couldn't focus on coming back to the legal career path and the LSAT, but that's really what I need long-term (considering my risk-profile and career goals). Some may say "well that just means you've found success another way" but that's overemphasizing short-term gains over long-term ones.

Maybe a one or two week break is justified, but that's about it.

And the GMAT? The LSAT is 10x more learnable and game-able IMHO.

born4law - I know you can do it. You're almost there. You are right, the test is learnable and there are so many success stories. People have gone up a shitload of points and to me, you've only been really studying the way you should have been starting in December 2011. Definitely skip February and aim for June. This way you have lots of time to keep drilling, pacing yourself with timing, and going over the hardest games until it's like 2nd nature. You should be able to think LSAT in everything you do, hear, read, and see. Find flaws in statements and try to weaken/strengthen statements in regular conversations. I took BP too and it's an amazing course, but I think you're on the right track and the right mindset to get to 170+ in June. You will also get to apply early and hopefully get some scholarship money if you have a high GPA. I'm replying with my sincerest thoughts because I feel like I went through the exact same process as you, and it took me awhile to get my shit together and take the test. Do NOT let anyone stand between you and your dreams, or tell you that you can't do anything. PM me if you need someone to motivate you!

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Tag. I want to see what happens in June! lol

born4law wrote:UPDATE: Scored another 169 today (PT 57). So close to 170!
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And the GMAT? The LSAT is 10x more learnable and game-able IMHO.

If you want to be a lawyer nonetheless, I repect your perseverance and ambition. However if you want to make money and do interesting things- then thats a different story altogether.
I can understand that you have put a lot in this exam and shifting now is not easy psychologically. However still I would like to point a few things in favor of GMAT

a.) You can take GMAT on any working day througout the year and you can reschedule as many times as you want by paying 50$. You have total control on the exam and you don't need to wait for months or be a victim of poor health on exam day.
b.) GMAT verbal is a joke compared to LSAT.
c.) You need to score 90-95% on GMAT(unlike 99%ile on the LSAT) and you are eligible for Top 10/20 school.

It sounds to me like your having a time allocation problem if your missing points due to this. You should develop a pacing system in order to allocate enough time to answer all of the questions, as well as cutting your losses on difficult ones you can't figure out in reasonable time. It's been a while since I prepped but I believe for LR doing the first 10 in 10 minutes was a reasonable pace to give you time for the later ones.

Breaking into the 170s in my opinion is not really about mastering the test material, but about learning a strong technique that works for you that will allow you to get the most points possible within your ability. Its about getting that high point on the "lsat scoreband." You already said you have gotten a 169, so its obviously possible. Compare that to your 161 - do you really think you just got 8 points dumber when you took that test? No. The reality is score differences are accounting to variations in your performance.

With all the prep you have done you seem to be beyond learning the logic behind LR or the strategies to do games. However, I don't see much mention of you developing or practicing an actual strategy for taking a test. When you receive your lower scores, try to think about what part of the test started to trip you up. Was it a particular question that you wasted too much time on, and made you have to rush through others? Did you not allocate enough time for each game? Did dwelling on earlier questions keep you from focusing on later questions?

I used benchmarks on time that were set based on what yielded me the highest scores on practice tests. Plowing through earlier LR allowed me to take a couple minutes on each difficult one. I learned that I am not going to get every answer on the test correct, so I learned to identify which question types hung me up, and I didn't allow myself to waste time on them or dwell on the answer. I learned to identify which of the games were the easier ones of the section, and made sure to progress from the easiest to hardest.

These things are just as important to maximizing your score as knowing the right ways to approach the questions.

I think it's possible for you to break 170.

How's your stamina. Have you considered doing 5-section and 6-section PTs?
Have you drilled your trouble areas?
Are you making small mistakes on easy problems that cost you the point? Have you drilled the easy ones to ensure that this doesn't happen?
Are you eating healthy?
Are you exercising frequently?
Are you getting enough sleep?
Are you getting adequate and balanced recreation?

I'd say if you can organize your training to accommodate all of this in a balanced and consistent fashion without over doing it, you can break 170 by June. I don't think you can do it for February.

This post motivates me to go study.

UPDATE: Scored 163 on PT 61 (02/06/12) and 168 on PT 64 (02/07/12). Individual section scores are fluctuating pretty wildly, especially in RC. My own estimate puts me at about a 40-50% chance I'll score above 167 on Feb '12 if I take it. Risky, considering I can't take the exam again till October '12 if I take this Feb.

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fashiongirl: wow, what inspiration. thanks for sharing your story and your words of encouragement. your support really changed my attitude! put those naysayers to shame!

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AbhiJ wrote:...a few things in favor of GMAT...

These are good points about the GMAT you presented. I suppose I don't know enough about the GMAT to make wholesale judgments like I did previously. The LSAT is one of the most game-able and learnable tests I've come across (if you're already above a certain cognitive level), but that doesn't mean it's more learnable than the GMAT.

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fosterp wrote:It sounds to me like your having a time allocation problem if your missing points due to this.

Your concerns about time allocation are well-placed, but I haven't ignored the issue. About 6 or 7 tests ago, I set up my official LR pacing schedule. I try to stick to 10 in 10min, 15 in 15min, 20 in 24min, and 25/26 in 33min. While I make 15 in 15 about 90% of the time, I still often fail to finish on time (i.e. I get to 23 or 24 on the 34th minute, if we redistribute time-spent sequentially). So I guess it's just a matter of taking another 10 tests or something to really try and enforce that strict pacing guideline I've set up for myself some weeks back.

I will admit I sometimes have difficulty saying "okay buddy, time to move on, this is just quicksand." I can't help it! There's like this other voice that comes in and says "No! You've spent too much time already! C'mon! What are you, stupid? You're gonna let this one fool you? C'mon! Finish the job you started!" and next thing you know it's been 3 or 4 minutes on one of those nasty mid-to-late teen questions.

fosterp wrote:Its about getting that high point on the "lsat scoreband." You already said you have gotten a 169, so its obviously possible.

I totally agree. You just have to figure out which section you can afford to take the greatest hit on and really work on 'pocketing' certain sections. For example, I still get between -1 to -3 on LG due to stupid, obvious mistakes. This is simply unacceptable. This is the difference between ~168 and 170 on most tests. If I can 'pocket' LG and still afford to take a -3/4 hit on RC with -2 or -3 per LR, I can still be in 170+ territory.

fosterp wrote:Compare that to your 161 - do you really think you just got 8 points dumber when you took that test? No. The reality is score differences are accounting to variations in your performance.

Wow, great point. That's a good way to look at it. The task then becomes minimizing any variability in performance (a.k.a. performing consistently).

fosterp wrote:When you receive your lower scores, try to think about what part of the test started to trip you up.

I definitely run the play-by-play after every test. My reviews are exhaustive: I go over all the wrong and right ACs to questions from every section. I generally walk away from each PT knowing what went wrong, what kept me back from a 170+. It's just that it's not always the same thing. Sometimes I'll pull a random -5 on LG. Sometimes RC will be -0 ("great, that's what saved me in the face of low LRs") but then it'll be -8 on the next test ("great, I thought I had this down. damnit!")

Question dwelling (a.k.a "the quicksand problem") is definitely another factor that pops up on most tests. This may be as close as we're going to get to actually characterizing an "aptitude plateau." Whereas most 170+ scorers will comprehend a stim and pick the right AC within about 1 minute 45 sec max for toughies, I can take as long as 3 minutes and still probably get it wrong. Can this be eliminated by raw practice? That's the question everyone wants to find out.

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proxy wrote:How's your stamina. Have you considered doing 5-section and 6-section PTs?

Yes, I currently do 5-section tests (as my spreadsheet screenshot in the OP shows). The tests are pulled from PTs 45-65 and "experimentals" from 37-44 more or less. I also make sure to splice in the experimentals within the first 3 sections, so that it's not past the break and 'weighted' less. (Earlier on means you need to keep stamina up for the sections that matter toward the end, not vice-versa. If you leave experimentals for last, you'll know they don't matter and just totally let go, defeating the whole purpose.)

proxy wrote:Have you drilled your trouble areas?

Yes, at least initially. I was going back and reworking tons of problems in my trouble areas (re-doing LGs, going back to Weakens, Flaws, etc... to brush up on personal trouble spots). Lately I've been more focused on PTs and timed sections so nothing too specific. I've been more test-focused because I want to get enough scores to see if I could take Feb, and once you get into a test-review cycle, it's hard to have a consistent drilling component too.

proxy wrote:Are you making small mistakes on easy problems that cost you the point? Have you drilled the easy ones to ensure that this doesn't happen?

Yes, I have several "head-slap" / "brain fart" mistakes on each of my PTs, across each section. These are truly dumb no-brainers that seem to get past my high-alert scrutiny during the test. I haven't really come up with an "anti-brain-fart strategy" to stop this from happening. Maybe this could help: http://gizmodo.com/5882754/how-to-elect ... lt-battery (haha I don't know but... thought that the TLS community would find this interesting)

proxy wrote:Are you eating healthy?

Nothing but lean meats (mostly chicken) and a balanced diet of veggies and a light serving of carbs most days. I try to keep sugars and carbs to a minimum. I care a lot about my nutrition and try and eat 3-4 meals a day of about 450-550 calories each. I hydrate often too. This aspect of my life has been consistent for over six months now. I give myself about one cheat day per week

proxy wrote:Are you exercising frequently?

No. In fact, I don't exercise much at all. This has been on the to-do list for a while and it's about time it got bumped up the priority ladder. Exercise is a no-brainer, an overall booster to all life aspects: increased blood flow to the brain (could result in higher cognitive/LSAT performance), increased feeling of euphoria and self-confidence (could result in greater resistance to psychological challenges of the LSAT), stress relief, etc. I will get a grip on this within the month.

proxy wrote:Are you getting enough sleep?

Sort of / sometimes. I'll get 5-6 hours of sleep for about 3-4 days, followed by a day or two of 7-8 hours of sleep, rinse and repeat. I really feel like I could be getting more sleep, I'd like to have at least 7 hours a day, and on most days, I just don't give myself that.

proxy wrote:Are you getting adequate and balanced recreation?

Yes, I'd say so. I getF my 'social fix' about two to three times a week. Going out for dinner, bars, etc... I read a lot recreationally (books and periodicals) and really try to avoid TV and other garbage.

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gobosox wrote:This post motivates me to go study.

Get at it! Learn from me: don't let it drag on. Spend every waking, mentally stimulated moment you have on this test. Fight for your life back!

On the eve of the February 2012 exam, an update from your hero:

My scores this past week:
PT 61: 163
PT 64: 168
PT 65: 166

On the basis of these last 3 scores (and the several preceding ones), I have decided to WITHDRAW from the Feb12 exam and register for Jun12.

My rationale:
I feel like if I walk in there tomorrow, I could have a great day (get a ~168) or have another bad day (get a ~163). Anything can happen. On a test that's so psychological and attitude-based, that's really not the right mindset for success. You want to go in there knowing you're going to rock that thing, no questions asked. Besides, I don't need to take Feb to apply now. That deadline's passed.

So then I asked myself: Have I done everything to prepare adequately?

Sure, at this point I've studied more than most of my friends who took the LSAT. But there's still so much more work to do. I know some of you crazies on here at TLS have done all the PTs, twice. You've done games hundreds of times. You've worked through more timed sections and drills than you care to recount.

...and I'll be going 'HAM' like that as well.

I'm a person with above-average IQ (but by no means "genius" level) and the tutors I've had have told me a 170's definitely possible (they've seen me break down LR problems and are familiar with my formal reasoning abilities).

So for the next 122 days I will be working on:
-LG: doing hundreds of games, some of them in 'duck-hunt' mode, just doing the setups, so that I'm ready to attack no matter what they throw at me. i'll drill over and over again till i can do complex setups and scenarios in 2 minutes or so.
-RC: i already read the Economist every Sunday and chew through the NYT every other day. i'm a born reader, but the LSAT doesn't quite measure that. I'll do my best to drill again and again, mostly timed sections, to see how time distribution plays a role.
-LR: doing an insane amount of timed sections; I'll experiment with all kinds of pacing techniques: my favorite lately has been doing #1-15, then going to #25/26 and working back down to 16. But I might also want to try the whole section backwards, or just an inversion of my current technique. I really need my -3 to -5 LR range to drop to -0 to -2.

I'll also be incorporating a lot more exercise / physical fitness into my lifestyle.

Your hero will pull all the stops. Root for him, give him support, and he shall come back with a retake success story of epic proportions (barring an earthquake on test day, or someone vomiting on his shoes, etc...).

Stay tuned!

born4law wrote:On the eve of the February 2012 exam, an update from your hero:

My scores this past week:
PT 61: 163
PT 64: 168
PT 65: 166

On the basis of these last 3 scores (and the several preceding ones), I have decided to WITHDRAW from the Feb12 exam and register for Jun12.

My rationale:
I feel like if I walk in there tomorrow, I could have a great day (get a ~168) or have another bad day (get a ~163). Anything can happen. On a test that's so psychological and attitude-based, that's really not the right mindset for success. You want to go in there knowing you're going to rock that thing, no questions asked. Besides, I don't need to take Feb to apply now. That deadline's passed.

So then I asked myself: Have I done everything to prepare adequately?


Sure, at this point I've studied more than most of my friends who took the LSAT. But there's still so much more work to do. I know some of you crazies on here at TLS have done all the PTs, twice. You've done games hundreds of times. You've worked through more timed sections and drills than you care to recount.

...and I'll be going 'HAM' like that as well.

I'm a person with above-average IQ (but by no means "genius" level) and the tutors I've had have told me a 170's definitely possible (they've seen me break down LR problems and are familiar with my formal reasoning abilities).

So for the next 122 days I will be working on:
-LG: doing hundreds of games, some of them in 'duck-hunt' mode, just doing the setups, so that I'm ready to attack no matter what they throw at me. i'll drill over and over again till i can do complex setups and scenarios in 2 minutes or so.
-RC: i already read the Economist every Sunday and chew through the NYT every other day. i'm a born reader, but the LSAT doesn't quite measure that. I'll do my best to drill again and again, mostly timed sections, to see how time distribution plays a role.
-LR: doing an insane amount of timed sections; I'll experiment with all kinds of pacing techniques: my favorite lately has been doing #1-15, then going to #25/26 and working back down to 16. But I might also want to try the whole section backwards, or just an inversion of my current technique. I really need my -3 to -5 LR range to drop to -0 to -2.

I'll also be incorporating a lot more exercise / physical fitness into my lifestyle.

Your hero will pull all the stops. Root for him, give him support, and he shall come back with a retake success story of epic proportions (barring an earthquake on test day, or someone vomiting on his shoes, etc...).

Stay tuned!

Looking forward to it! I've been in a similar boat as you, though not two and a half years, and have been studying quite diligently since October for the June 2012 test. Good luck my friend! Lets rock the test.

For those who were curious... let me give you an update on my saga.

After I wrote this post, I locked down and studied hard for months. I finally found the right pacing for logical reasoning. I reached a high plateau on reading comp and I redid games so many times I could start seeing them when I closed my eyes. I also really emphasized lifestyle: exercising, eating healthy, and keeping a positive state of mind.

Around May, I finally broke through that vaunted 170 barrier on my practice tests and started scoring 170+ consistently on the last five exams before the big day on June 11 (all recent tests).

I got my score back over a week ago and the results were less than stellar: 164.

Now, this isn't a bad score, but for all the time and energy I've invested, it's slightly disappointing.

Things just didn't go my way on test day. I had a great day on LR, but my usual saving grace, RC, just didn't pull for me. LG was a mess too.

With my 164, I am ready to apply this cycle to the schools I'd be happy to attend.

I've also signed up for the October exam because I know that with just one more shot at the test, I can get the score I deserve. I'm not planning to study anymore because I've maxed out all there is to 'learn' about this test. I'll just refresh myself every 3 Sundays or something till October. Then I'll just walk in and do my thing, stress-free and like a b0$$. I'm bound to have a better day in October than I did in June, so long as I don't lose my hot 170+ skills.

born4law wrote:For those who were curious... let me give you an update on my saga.

After I wrote this post, I locked down and studied hard for months. I finally found the right pacing for logical reasoning. I reached a high plateau on reading comp and I redid games so many times I could start seeing them when I closed my eyes. I also really emphasized lifestyle: exercising, eating healthy, and keeping a positive state of mind.

Around May, I finally broke through that vaunted 170 barrier on my practice tests and started scoring 170+ consistently on the last five exams before the big day on June 11 (all recent tests).

I got my score back over a week ago and the results were less than stellar: 164.

Now, this isn't a bad score, but for all the time and energy I've invested, it's slightly disappointing.

Things just didn't go my way on test day. I had a great day on LR, but my usual saving grace, RC, just didn't pull for me. LG was a mess too.

With my 164, I am ready to apply this cycle to the schools I'd be happy to attend.

I've also signed up for the October exam because I know that with just one more shot at the test, I can get the score I deserve. I'm not planning to study anymore because I've maxed out all there is to 'learn' about this test. I'll just refresh myself every 3 Sundays or something till October. Then I'll just walk in and do my thing, stress-free and like a b0$$. I'm bound to have a better day in October than I did in June, so long as I don't lose my hot 170+ skills.

I have a friend who took last October without studying after studying a bunch the first two times around and increased from 168, 169 to 176. So, this may work for you

JamMasterJ wrote:this may work for you

Thanks JMJ! My college roommate actually had a similar experience and partly inspired me to give another shot in October. He had taken the exam twice, stuck in the low 160s despite breaking through the 170s on his practice tests, and then he just walked in on his third attempt and got his highest score: 167. He studied for all of about 2 hours for that third time. Haha... and it was his best score. I think there's a good 6 month half-life to your memory retaining the test's intricacies, so... not too worried about this.

born4law wrote:

JamMasterJ wrote:this may work for you

Thanks JMJ! My college roommate actually had a similar experience and partly inspired me to give another shot in October. He had taken the exam twice, stuck in the low 160s despite breaking through the 170s on his practice tests, and then he just walked in on his third attempt and got his highest score: 167. He studied for all of about 2 hours for that third time. Haha... and it was his best score. I think there's a good 6 month half-life to your memory retaining the test's intricacies, so... not too worried about this.

yeah I wouldn't worry too much about losing "it." I think I could still get a 170 at this point and I'm sure others who did well recently feel the same way.