Top Law Schools

I don't want to say as to which jurisdiction I am in, but I imagine it's pretty universal all around the US and Canada, because the LSAT is administered on the same day all across North America.

But anyway, I just found out today that my friend's older sibling is an LSAT proctor; she has been proctoring the test for the past few years now. I was rather amazed to learn the following:

-> If the test is being held in a big city (eg. New York) and in a large setting (eg. NYU campus), then the head proctor gets the 'sealed' LSAT package 2 weeks in advance; the other proctors get it on the day of the test;

-> If it's a small remote/rural town, the 'sealed' LSAT is sent directly to the proctor two weeks in advance;

-> Proctors have 3 business days (after the test administration) to send it back to LSAC via paid return courier.

Anyone concerned that this could possibly give ample opportunity to some unsavory proctor to capitalize via nefarious means? This is not to suggest that they're unethical or improper conduct might take place; I'm just sayin' for conjecture purposes. That's all.

Every test-book has it's own unique serial number printed on it and all are and must be accounted for. That's part of what LSAC is doing during those pesky 3 weeks you have to wait for scores to be reported after taking the test.

Duly noted. But that doesn't negate or eliminate the possibility that a proctor will indulge in some form of inappropriate conduct. Because we all know that's quite possible. The hypothetical scenarios are endless.

I have absolutely wondered about this before. It seems like there would be nothing stopping someone's spouse/girlfriend proctor from giving their significant other another couple hours to work on the test at home.. As airtight as LSAC seems to be with the fingerprints and all, this seems to be a big hole.

cogitoergosum wrote:I have absolutely wondered about this before. It seems like there would be nothing stopping someone's spouse/girlfriend proctor from giving their significant other another couple hours to work on the test at home.. As airtight as LSAC seems to be with the fingerprints and all, this seems to be a big hole.

Grab a test you have never seen or worked any of the questions from before (without the answer key anywhere near you so you cannot check along the way), give yourself up to double time per section and see if you can determine the answer key. If you can do that, you're ready to score close to 180 or at least 170+.

Jeffort wrote:

cogitoergosum wrote:I have absolutely wondered about this before. It seems like there would be nothing stopping someone's spouse/girlfriend proctor from giving their significant other another couple hours to work on the test at home.. As airtight as LSAC seems to be with the fingerprints and all, this seems to be a big hole.

Grab a test you have never seen or worked any of the questions from before (without the answer key anywhere near you so you cannot check along the way), give yourself up to double time per section and see if you can determine the answer key. If you can do that, you're ready to score close to 180 or at least 170+.

This is silly. Of course having double time would help A LOT. Having 2 weeks would help even more.

Jeffort wrote:

cogitoergosum wrote:I have absolutely wondered about this before. It seems like there would be nothing stopping someone's spouse/girlfriend proctor from giving their significant other another couple hours to work on the test at home.. As airtight as LSAC seems to be with the fingerprints and all, this seems to be a big hole.

Grab a test you have never seen or worked any of the questions from before (without the answer key anywhere near you so you cannot check along the way), give yourself up to double time per section and see if you can determine the answer key. If you can do that, you're ready to score close to 180 or at least 170+.

I never knew this, but I think this is a huge liability. I'm PTing around low 170s right now and I usually take PTs twice. Strictly timed the first time and untimed the second on a fresh copy. My untimed scores are usually 178-180, so having that extra time would be HUGE.

Jeffort wrote:

cogitoergosum wrote:I have absolutely wondered about this before. It seems like there would be nothing stopping someone's spouse/girlfriend proctor from giving their significant other another couple hours to work on the test at home.. As airtight as LSAC seems to be with the fingerprints and all, this seems to be a big hole.

Grab a test you have never seen or worked any of the questions from before (without the answer key anywhere near you so you cannot check along the way), give yourself up to double time per section and see if you can determine the answer key. If you can do that, you're ready to score close to 180 or at least 170+.

Really? If this were the case then why time the test at all? Why not just let people enter the test center in the morning, hand them the test, and then give them the full day to work on it? I wouldn't gaurantee myself a 180 with a full day to work on the test, but I feel pretty confident I could manage a 178 or 179 because I have already done so on old copies of the test. My highest LSAT was a 168. The LSAT is almost trivial when you factor out the time contraints. A relatively bright 6th grader could work out the logic games if given enough time just by eliminating choices.

Getting back to the OP's topic, how would a proctor be able to match up his or her loved ones unique test booklet with his or her answer sheet after the test? I am not saying it is impossible, but it does seem like it would be quite difficult. I seem to recall multiple proctors with different proctors taking different test materials.

WayBryson wrote:Getting back to the OP's topic, how would a proctor be able to match up his or her loved ones unique test booklet with his or her answer sheet after the test? I am not saying it is impossible, but it does seem like it would be quite difficult. I seem to recall multiple proctors with different proctors taking different test materials.

Everyone has the same 4 scored sections, albeit in different orders with different experimentals mixed in. It is a standardized test, after all.

Whether or not one would need to memorize the answer sheet pattern to gain an advantage misses the point. The opportunity to see and set up the LGs beforehand and see how they work, with no time pressure, would be a massive advantage by itself. So would the opportunity to study the RC passages.

Looks like I need to get myself a proctor boyfriend.

^^^LOL @ leche's post.

All good and fully valid opinions.

Just two things:

1. As some of you have alluded to, I too think that the greatest benefit to having an 'advance' peek at an LSAT would be the RC and LG sections (for me personally, RC 'cuz that's my weak point); LR is something that you can wing it, but it'd surely help for the last few questions that tend to be more challenging.

2. The issue of double time would be a benefit, but not all that much (at least not according to many standardized testing/cognitive testing experts). I think many of us have the illusion that having double (or extra) time would tremendously benefit our score(s). This is not necessarily true. Often times, mentally challenged test-takers are granted extra-time, but it's not the time window that affects their performance, but rather the consecutive section after section, which has more of an adverse impact.

But back to my original point, as someone suggested up there, even with all these photo ID/finger-printing/etc. authentication safeguard procedures, here itself is a major threat to the fairness and integrity of the LSAT. If an unsavory proctor wanted to "capitalize" through misdeeds, s/he could without much liability or accountability.

Like the classic saying goes... "most security breaches (at corporations, governments or academia) are often carried out by people on the inside than from the outside..."

sundance95 wrote: Everyone has the same 4 scored sections, albeit in different orders with different experimentals mixed in.

Didn't know everyone had different experimentals. What would stop people from talking about which sections they've already had during the 15 minute break to possibly determine (once they get to the final two sections) which one is the experimental?

Paraflam wrote:

sundance95 wrote: Everyone has the same 4 scored sections, albeit in different orders with different experimentals mixed in.

Didn't know everyone had different experimentals. What would stop people from talking about which sections they've already had during the 15 minute break to possibly determine (once they get to the final two sections) which one is the experimental?

Experimental is always before the break.

Paraflam wrote:What would stop people from talking about which sections they've already had during the 15 minute break to possibly determine (once they get to the final two sections) which one is the experimental?

Trying to find and then getting through the line to use the bathroom to 'get urgent biz done' to make it back into the room before break time is over.

Also, the rules. Many people that take the test are not ethicaly challenged.

.

suspicious android wrote:

Paraflam wrote:

sundance95 wrote: Everyone has the same 4 scored sections, albeit in different orders with different experimentals mixed in.

Didn't know everyone had different experimentals. What would stop people from talking about which sections they've already had during the 15 minute break to possibly determine (once they get to the final two sections) which one is the experimental?

Experimental is always before the break.

Gotcha.

Jeffort wrote: Trying to find and then getting through the line to use the bathroom to 'get urgent biz done' to make it back into the room before break time is over.

Also, the rules. Many people that take the test are not ethically challenged.

Are you highly medicated today? Your posts are not making much sense.

Android,

Not cool. I don't appreciate your post.

I've mainly been commenting in the threads about test day rules and how they are related to people that try to cheat on tests. As an LSAT prep teacher I think you should understand.

Jeffort wrote:
Not cool. I don't appreciate your post.

sorry man, I was just kidding. They were some weird posts though.

suspicious android wrote:

Paraflam wrote:

sundance95 wrote: Everyone has the same 4 scored sections, albeit in different orders with different experimentals mixed in.

Didn't know everyone had different experimentals. What would stop people from talking about which sections they've already had during the 15 minute break to possibly determine (once they get to the final two sections) which one is the experimental?

Experimental is always before the break.

I thought this had changed in recent tests?

thestalkmore wrote:

suspicious android wrote:

Paraflam wrote:

sundance95 wrote: Everyone has the same 4 scored sections, albeit in different orders with different experimentals mixed in.

Didn't know everyone had different experimentals. What would stop people from talking about which sections they've already had during the 15 minute break to possibly determine (once they get to the final two sections) which one is the experimental?

Experimental is always before the break.

I thought this had changed in recent tests?

yes it has. my experimental section in the october test was my 4th section (my 3rd LR).

thestalkmore wrote:

suspicious android wrote:

Paraflam wrote:

sundance95 wrote: Everyone has the same 4 scored sections, albeit in different orders with different experimentals mixed in.

Didn't know everyone had different experimentals. What would stop people from talking about which sections they've already had during the 15 minute break to possibly determine (once they get to the final two sections) which one is the experimental?

Experimental is always before the break.

I thought this had changed in recent tests?

Old thread.

Micdiddy wrote: Old thread.

Womp womp. Fucking necrobumps man.

suspicious android wrote:

Paraflam wrote:

sundance95 wrote: Everyone has the same 4 scored sections, albeit in different orders with different experimentals mixed in.

Didn't know everyone had different experimentals. What would stop people from talking about which sections they've already had during the 15 minute break to possibly determine (once they get to the final two sections) which one is the experimental?

Experimental is always before the break.

That is incorrect. It's been after the break, too (see: last October). Besides, there's no written rule reserving where LSAC has the right to insert it; there was merely a historical trend.

justbubbles wrote:I don't want to say as to which jurisdiction I am in, but I imagine it's pretty universal all around the US and Canada, because the LSAT is administered on the same day all across North America.

But anyway, I just found out today that my friend's older sibling is an LSAT proctor; she has been proctoring the test for the past few years now. I was rather amazed to learn the following:

-> If the test is being held in a big city (eg. New York) and in a large setting (eg. NYU campus), then the head proctor gets the 'sealed' LSAT package 2 weeks in advance; the other proctors get it on the day of the test;

-> If it's a small remote/rural town, the 'sealed' LSAT is sent directly to the proctor two weeks in advance;

-> Proctors have 3 business days (after the test administration) to send it back to LSAC via paid return courier.

Anyone concerned that this could possibly give ample opportunity to some unsavory proctor to capitalize via nefarious means? This is not to suggest that they're unethical or improper conduct might take place; I'm just sayin' for conjecture purposes. That's all.

Well, I get that it has to get there in a timely fashion, but there's always the possibility of someone doing 'nefarious' things with it. Maybe it should be sent to the Mayor's office and locked in the safe until test day