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He said that it's an aptitude test and that studying when I'm tired/have worked all day will do me no good.

Generally I would hear something like this and disregard immediately, however, this guy is actually pretty successful and leads a thinktank/teaches at a law school.

I know a bunch of people that have raised their scores 20+ point by practice test/practice test/practice test.

Thoughts?

study every waking hour of every day, something will sink in.

Don't believe him. Some people are naturally gifted athletes, others are naturally gifted standardized testers. But if a professional athlete told you not to bother training for a marathon, would you believe him?

kevin261186 wrote:study every waking hour of every day, something will sink in.

That's what I was thinking too, but the thing that got me is that I've taken the real test twice before and it kindda seemed like it really didn't help. However, I'm aware now that "how" I studied was productive at that time. If that makes any sense...

Renzo wrote:Don't believe him. Some people are naturally gifted athletes, others are naturally gifted standardized testers. But if a professional athlete told you not to bother training for a marathon, would you believe him?

LOL-actually in that case I might, but having some experience with the LSAT leads me to question the prior.

20 points? That seems like a pretty big jump.

Anyways, I barely studied for it. Basically just enough to get familiar with the format. I was happy with my score, 166, but I still wonder what I would have gotten had I studied like some people on this forum advocate.

Since it won't hurt, why not study hard if you have the time? I doubt you would regret it.

TOMaHULK wrote:

Renzo wrote:Don't believe him. Some people are naturally gifted athletes, others are naturally gifted standardized testers. But if a professional athlete told you not to bother training for a marathon, would you believe him?

LOL-actually in that case I might, but having some experience with the LSAT leads me to question the prior.

Well, as one of the lucky natural testers who didn't really prep, I'm telling you to prep. Yes, it is an aptitude test. It's also learnable to a substantial degree.

The only support I can think of for this argument is that if you study too hard you might raise your your LSAT score too much and get into a way better school than you deserve.


mmmh....NAAAAAW

I would rather graduate bottom of my class at Harvard than top of my class at University of Oregon

He is absolutely right. Working every waking hour of every day will not allow you to maximize what you get out of your studying. In order to study efficiently and effectively, you must be in the right mental state. If you are distracted, tired, stressed, etc, then you will not be at your peak of focus and performance. To try and do practice tests or sections when you aren't in the right mindset will only lead to lower-than-usual scores. These scores tend to make people stressed and even less confident. Thus, it creates a self-perpetuating cycle. You most certainly need to set the LSAT stuff aside from time to time. Take a day to relax here and there so that you can clear your mind and start fresh. It is especially important to do this when you feel particularly overwhelmed. What I'm sure that lawyer meant is, don't study every waking minute. Take some time to relax and get your head in the right place. You will ultimately come out ahead if you do so.

Is the attorney from a um, more seasoned generation? Admissions were a bit different back then, as was the pressure put on the LSAT and the test itself. Most of my partners just roll their eyes at the LSAT and say something along the lines of, "Honestly, I don't even remember what was on it. Don't worry about it too much, you'll get into a good school."

All of my associates, on the other hand, covered me a bit so I could get to my LSAT classes on time and were incredibily accomodating bc they knew how important the test is in admissions.

Best line from a partner to a fellow paralegal when a trial was extended and he told her she had to reschedule the LSAT to take it in another state last minute. When she hesitated a bit he said, "I took the LSAT in Vietnam and went to Harvard, you can take it in Alabama."

El_Gallo wrote:The only support I can think of for this argument is that if you study too hard you might raise your your LSAT score too much and get into a way better school than you deserve.


mmmh....NAAAAAW

I would rather graduate bottom of my class at Harvard than top of my class at University of Oregon

Actually that's a good point. Aren't like the top 10% of most schools guarenteed jobs? Top tier schools, everyone that graduates gets a job?

dakatz wrote:He is absolutely right. Working every waking hour of every day will not allow you to maximize what you get out of your studying. In order to study efficiently and effectively, you must be in the right mental state. If you are distracted, tired, stressed, etc, then you will not be at your peak of focus and performance. To try and do practice tests or sections when you aren't in the right mindset will only lead to lower-than-usual scores. These scores tend to make people stressed and even less confident. Thus, it creates a self-perpetuating cycle. You most certainly need to set the LSAT stuff aside from time to time. Take a day to relax here and there so that you can clear your mind and start fresh. It is especially important to do this when you feel particularly overwhelmed. What I'm sure that lawyer meant is, don't study every waking minute. Take some time to relax and get your head in the right place. You will ultimately come out ahead if you do so.

^^This actually is pretty much word for word what he said (although not as much detail.) Is that you?

Studying when you are exhausted will often hurt you more than help you. It is an aptitude test, but it is also a test that the overwhelming majority of people study for, and the overwhelming majority of people improve on through studying. There is specific knowledge that is required for the test, and there are also particular skills that you can improve on through practice.

That being said, the LSAT is a psychological test. Some of the answers are hard for no other reason than that you expect them to be hard. I've seen countless students get questions wrong because they figured the correct answer was just too simple to actually be correct. Practicing when you are exhausted can exacerbate the psychological aspects of the test. The more tired you are, the more questions you will get wrong. You will then start questioning why you are getting those questions wrong and try to correct them, whereas the only thing you are doing wrong is not thinking clearly because you are exhausted.

In conclusion: Study a lot, but don't burn out.

TOMaHULK wrote:

dakatz wrote:He is absolutely right. Working every waking hour of every day will not allow you to maximize what you get out of your studying. In order to study efficiently and effectively, you must be in the right mental state. If you are distracted, tired, stressed, etc, then you will not be at your peak of focus and performance. To try and do practice tests or sections when you aren't in the right mindset will only lead to lower-than-usual scores. These scores tend to make people stressed and even less confident. Thus, it creates a self-perpetuating cycle. You most certainly need to set the LSAT stuff aside from time to time. Take a day to relax here and there so that you can clear your mind and start fresh. It is especially important to do this when you feel particularly overwhelmed. What I'm sure that lawyer meant is, don't study every waking minute. Take some time to relax and get your head in the right place. You will ultimately come out ahead if you do so.

^^This actually is pretty much word for word what he said (although not as much detail.) Is that you?

Oh, that's different than "don't study too much." That's really good advice.

Pearalegal wrote:Is the attorney from a um, more seasoned generation? Admissions were a bit different back then, as was the pressure put on the LSAT and the test itself. Most of my partners just roll their eyes at the LSAT and say something along the lines of, "Honestly, I don't even remember what was on it. Don't worry about it too much, you'll get into a good school."

All of my associates, on the other hand, covered me a bit so I could get to my LSAT classes on time and were incredibily accomodating bc they knew how important the test is in admissions.

Best line from a partner to a fellow paralegal when a trial was extended and he told her she had to reschedule the LSAT to take it in another state last minute. When she hesitated a bit he said, "I took the LSAT in Vietnam and went to Harvard, you can take it in Alabama."

Actually he is a older attorney. LOL'd at quote. Vietnam? Really? Wouldn't expect stellar testing conditions.

You won't know what your aptitude is on the LSAT unless you study hard for the test.

I am here assuming that your diagnostic is not a 180.

Renzo wrote:

TOMaHULK wrote:

dakatz wrote:He is absolutely right. Working every waking hour of every day will not allow you to maximize what you get out of your studying. In order to study efficiently and effectively, you must be in the right mental state. If you are distracted, tired, stressed, etc, then you will not be at your peak of focus and performance. To try and do practice tests or sections when you aren't in the right mindset will only lead to lower-than-usual scores. These scores tend to make people stressed and even less confident. Thus, it creates a self-perpetuating cycle. You most certainly need to set the LSAT stuff aside from time to time. Take a day to relax here and there so that you can clear your mind and start fresh. It is especially important to do this when you feel particularly overwhelmed. What I'm sure that lawyer meant is, don't study every waking minute. Take some time to relax and get your head in the right place. You will ultimately come out ahead if you do so.

^^This actually is pretty much word for word what he said (although not as much detail.) Is that you?

Oh, that's different than "don't study too much." That's really good advice.

Absolutely.

tamlyric wrote:You won't know what your aptitude is on the LSAT unless you study hard for the test.

I am here assuming that your diagnostic is not a 180.

Uh no. Neither my previous 2 real LSAT's nor my diagnostic have even closed in on 180.

That noted, I hate people that get 170's + raw on the LSAT. Feels bad man...

i took 4+ PTs a week in the 4 weeks before my exam, and took a 5 hour energy beforehand. honestly those are the shit.

1. Law school admissions was FAR less competitive when he went through
2. The market was totally different
3. I'd be willing to guess the emphasis on the LSAT was a lot lower when he applied too
4. Law school was a hell of a lot cheaper

I actually had a lawyer tell me this same thing. She said she just woke up the morning of the LSAT, took it, applied, and got in. While perspective and advice from older lawyers can often be great in terms of job hunting, what law is like, etc. you really cannot listen too much to older lawyers on certain things. They really have no concept of what the admissions process is like, nor do they understand the crushing debt young lawyers have to take on nowadays.

TOMaHULK wrote: Uh no. Neither my previous 2 real LSAT's nor my diagnostic have even closed in on 180.

That noted, I hate people that get 170's + raw on the LSAT. Feels bad man...

I've never understood the benefit of studying for standardized tests, although practicing them once or twice certainly makes sense, but from what I hear it's really helped a lot of people.

No need to hate though if you can get there as well with work; no one cares how you do something as long as you do it.

Pearalegal wrote:Is the attorney from a um, more seasoned generation? Admissions were a bit different back then, as was the pressure put on the LSAT and the test itself. Most of my partners just roll their eyes at the LSAT and say something along the lines of, "Honestly, I don't even remember what was on it. Don't worry about it too much, you'll get into a good school."

All of my associates, on the other hand, covered me a bit so I could get to my LSAT classes on time and were incredibily accomodating bc they knew how important the test is in admissions.

Best line from a partner to a fellow paralegal when a trial was extended and he told her she had to reschedule the LSAT to take it in another state last minute. When she hesitated a bit he said, "I took the LSAT in Vietnam and went to Harvard, you can take it in Alabama."

I guess it's pretty easy to score high when you proctor yourself in a mud hut and give yourself double time for each section. JK

Tautology wrote:

TOMaHULK wrote: Uh no. Neither my previous 2 real LSAT's nor my diagnostic have even closed in on 180.

That noted, I hate people that get 170's + raw on the LSAT. Feels bad man...

I've never understood the benefit of studying for standardized tests, although practicing them once or twice certainly makes sense, but from what I hear it's really helped a lot of people.

No need to hate though if you can get there as well with work; no one cares how you do something as long as you do it.

Because it is a very, very learnable test with common patterns and structure.

Tautology wrote:

TOMaHULK wrote: Uh no. Neither my previous 2 real LSAT's nor my diagnostic have even closed in on 180.

That noted, I hate people that get 170's + raw on the LSAT. Feels bad man...

I've never understood the benefit of studying for standardized tests, although practicing them once or twice certainly makes sense, but from what I hear it's really helped a lot of people.

No need to hate though if you can get there as well with work; no one cares how you do something as long as you do it.

The benefit is that you do better. hth.

e:fb

No, I understand that people study for and consequently do better on standardized tests. My point was more that I have never understood why studying helped them. For me, the only problems I ever have are with simple mistakes like misreading the question/answer choice or perhaps with questions where I disagree with what the best answer is (very rare). I don't understand what it is that people are gaining from study, or rather why they can't figure them out on their own, maybe other than increasing your speed, which makes a lot of sense.