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Greenteachurro

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Re: The Official December 2016 Study Group - Time to register! New Poll!

Post by Greenteachurro » Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:39 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:Interesting tidbit on last test. I've talked to an absurd number of people (including test prep people and obviously Killoran because he and I are BFFs ) and just about every scored under their PTs. That's pretty common anyway but this was almost exclusively in that direction. In fact, I've only talked to one person who scored above their Pts
I fell way below my PT's because I heavily lean on my LG section in order to bump me into the 170's , and I got trashed by that final game. Honestly now that I look back on that game, it's really not that hard (actually I think the game before it is objectively more difficult) but the combination of stress and straight up fear of failure paralyzed me during that game. I bet many other people were thrown off by that last game in a similar way, but I'm also sure that the curve was set at -12 was because that game really wasn't that difficult and some people saw that during the test and were able to put their head down and do the game correctly.

Side note: do you have a rough guesstimate on how far below people fell on average on their pt's, for that last test?

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Re: The Official December 2016 Study Group - Time to register! New Poll!

Post by harveybirdman502 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:43 pm

SunDevil14 wrote:Made Prep Test 46 my bitch (best score to date).

PT 46

176
RC: -4
LR I: -0
LR II: -1
LG: -0
Congrats. That's awesome. I just did 1, 2 and 4. Did the LG section seem unusually easy? Only one that tripped me up was the last Q and even that seemed relatively easy. I was just pressed for time.

I feel you on RC. That last passage was an absolute nightmare. I read it again after the test and was still confounded.

Just a PSA, don't forget to take your meds before/during PTs if you have any kind of mental illness. My afternoon alert went off right as the timer buzzed for RC so I forgot it and felt like I was jumping out of my skin by the end of 2. Missed a couple questions that I really shouldn't have missed as a result.

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Re: The Official December 2016 Study Group - Time to register! New Poll!

Post by Capt_Beatty » Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:49 pm

Just wanted to check in and wish everyone a happy month of studying, to any September retakers out there, what're your game plans? I'm personally focusing on RC-LG-LR for a week or two, then going to crank out PT's starting at 3-break-2, 4-break-2, 4-break-3, 5-break-3, 5-break-4, 6-break-4, maybe I'll even do a 8 section - break - 6 section PT. idk.

I'm trying to go from 164 to 180 (though I'd be happy with a 167).

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Re: The Official December 2016 Study Group - Time to register! New Poll!

Post by OhMyLaw » Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:10 pm

cianchetta0 wrote:Just wanted to check in and wish everyone a happy month of studying, to any September retakers out there, what're your game plans? I'm personally focusing on RC-LG-LR for a week or two, then going to crank out PT's starting at 3-break-2, 4-break-2, 4-break-3, 5-break-3, 5-break-4, 6-break-4, maybe I'll even do a 8 section - break - 6 section PT. idk.

I'm trying to go from 164 to 180 (though I'd be happy with a 167).
Happy month of studying to you too! I'm trying to go from 160 to 170, but I'll be studying for a 180. My problem is stamina so I'm just taking a five section PT a week with very detailed blind review. I wanted to drill sections, but it doesn't look like I'll have time with school and work. Are you buying individual tests to prep or are you reusing stuff for your 5+ sectionPTs?

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PrezRand

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Re: The Official December 2016 Study Group - Time to register! New Poll!

Post by PrezRand » Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:14 pm

Is there a solutions guide for RC as well?

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Re: The Official December 2016 Study Group - Time to register! New Poll!

Post by Mikey » Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:16 pm

PrezRand wrote:Is there a solutions guide for RC as well?
Manhattans forums should have stuff for RC as well.

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Re: The Official December 2016 Study Group - Time to register! New Poll!

Post by ms9 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:23 pm

Greenteachurro wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Interesting tidbit on last test. I've talked to an absurd number of people (including test prep people and obviously Killoran because he and I are BFFs ) and just about every scored under their PTs. That's pretty common anyway but this was almost exclusively in that direction. In fact, I've only talked to one person who scored above their Pts
I fell way below my PT's because I heavily lean on my LG section in order to bump me into the 170's , and I got trashed by that final game. Honestly now that I look back on that game, it's really not that hard (actually I think the game before it is objectively more difficult) but the combination of stress and straight up fear of failure paralyzed me during that game. I bet many other people were thrown off by that last game in a similar way, but I'm also sure that the curve was set at -12 was because that game really wasn't that difficult and some people saw that during the test and were able to put their head down and do the game correctly.

Side note: do you have a rough guesstimate on how far below people fell on average on their pt's, for that last test?
It would be very rough but maybe 5-6. I talked to someone who was 17 below.

I once talked to someone on the phone who was PTing at 167 and who scored a 147.

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Re: The Official December 2016 Study Group - Time to register! New Poll!

Post by nimbus cloud » Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:45 pm

.
Last edited by nimbus cloud on Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Official December 2016 Study Group - Time to register! New Poll!

Post by ms9 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:14 pm

nimbus cloud wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote: It would be very rough but maybe 5-6. I talked to someone who was 17 below.

I once talked to someone on the phone who was PTing at 167 and who scored a 147.
Why do you think that happened?

Are the test takers getting worse at living up to their potential on the test day, or did the scale not reflect the difficulty of the test?
Two things.

One, per Killoran and I don't want to misquote him so maybe he can chime in but takers at the top end did fine. So if you were PTing in the 170s you very well may have scored right where you were PTings. The mid range 160s and 150s were where the suffering occurred. Below 150 you also may have scored where you were PTing. So this was not a kind for those 150-170.

Also, every applicant group is different. My observations from this are that I was constantly asking people to focus on the LSAT more, applications/school choice etc less. So maybe people were PTing but under conditions where they were doing multiple things, stoping the clock, etc. I dunno the second is just a theory.

Also,

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Re: The Official December 2016 Study Group - Time to register! New Poll!

Post by StopLawying » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:33 pm

Mike, do you think the difficulty of the Sep test will have any affect on the upcoming cycle? Maybe if there were a lot of first time takers and they underperformed on the test, lots of applications will now be submitted after Dec scores come out?

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Re: The Official December 2016 Study Group - Time to register! New Poll!

Post by theboringest » Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:00 am

Yeah I'd love to see the score distribution curve on this one, see if maybe it's a bit off from the normal...anything to increase the value of my 169 :D

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Re: The Official December 2016 Study Group - Time to register! New Poll!

Post by Capt_Beatty » Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:55 am

OhMyLaw wrote:
cianchetta0 wrote:Just wanted to check in and wish everyone a happy month of studying, to any September retakers out there, what're your game plans? I'm personally focusing on RC-LG-LR for a week or two, then going to crank out PT's starting at 3-break-2, 4-break-2, 4-break-3, 5-break-3, 5-break-4, 6-break-4, maybe I'll even do a 8 section - break - 6 section PT. idk.

I'm trying to go from 164 to 180 (though I'd be happy with a 167).
Happy month of studying to you too! I'm trying to go from 160 to 170, but I'll be studying for a 180. My problem is stamina so I'm just taking a five section PT a week with very detailed blind review. I wanted to drill sections, but it doesn't look like I'll have time with school and work. Are you buying individual tests to prep or are you reusing stuff for your 5+ sectionPTs?
In my prep for September I didn't have 39-51, so I'm using those for PT's. I'm also doing LR sections from 70-79 because I feel LR is tougher than, the 60s and 50s.

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Re: The Official December 2016 Study Group - Time to register! New Poll!

Post by ms9 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:08 am

StopLawying wrote:Mike, do you think the difficulty of the Sep test will have any affect on the upcoming cycle? Maybe if there were a lot of first time takers and they underperformed on the test, lots of applications will now be submitted after Dec scores come out?
Not sure if it will change the dynamics of the difficulty of the cycle or just push back decision-making with the epic number of retakes that will be coming up.

Around Dec. 15th I should get my fancy cycle data report that will look like this one from last cycle:

http://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/app-data-draft/

AGAIN, THIS IS LAST CYCLE. (and yet still someone will freak out about it being this cycle). Please send all freakouts to my competition. Thank you!

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Re: The Official December 2016 Study Group - Time to register! New Poll!

Post by Mikey » Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:19 am

Gonna do an LR section that I just put together with 30 difficult questions. let's see how this goes

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Re: The Official December 2016 Study Group - Time to register! New Poll!

Post by Greenteachurro » Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:22 am

Mikey wrote:Gonna do an LR section that I just put together with 30 difficult questions. let's see how this goes
How'd you do that? Like physically... are you just going to do the last 2 pages of 6 PTs?

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Re: The Official December 2016 Study Group - Time to register! New Poll!

Post by batlaw » Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:42 am

I'm in the middle of creating my own stack of questions that I have missed or that I need to improve my strategy for. I'm currently using word and screen shotting the question and noting the PT and section number above. What I'm thinking is it might be useful to also create an identical sheet but where I record the correct logic and notes about my strategy, but I'm not sure how I want to do this.

Does anyone have specific strategies for creating stacks of questions? Anyone do any automation? Or mainly just copy/paste?

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Re: The Official December 2016 Study Group - Time to register! New Poll!

Post by kindofcanuck » Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:47 am

PT 29 games.

Well, that was fun :D Actually, strangely, I ended it thinking it had genuinely been fun. My first words were "wow, that was actually a good section". I think I'm getting Stockholm syndrome...

Anyway, went -2/-3 (got the very last Q right, but was changing it from wrong, as the timer went off, can't say how a scantron would have read the resulting marks). Lost one point on Mannequins (Q9, stupidly read over from an accurate but incomplete diagram), and was massively rushing for the last two so got 23 wrong.

Felt much harder than some of the more recent games sections (like 40s, 50s) - was marking time as I went, first 3 took me just under 10 minutes each, only left with 6 minutes for the last one. That's the real problem I have with games, the time pressure.

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Re: The Official December 2016 Study Group - Time to register! New Poll!

Post by Greenteachurro » Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:55 am

kindofcanuck wrote:PT 29 games.

Well, that was fun :D Actually, strangely, I ended it thinking it had genuinely been fun. My first words were "wow, that was actually a good section". I think I'm getting Stockholm syndrome...

Anyway, went -2/-3 (got the very last Q right, but was changing it from wrong, as the timer went off, can't say how a scantron would have read the resulting marks). Lost one point on Mannequins (Q9, stupidly read over from an accurate but incomplete diagram), and was massively rushing for the last two so got 23 wrong.

Felt much harder than some of the more recent games sections (like 40s, 50s) - was marking time as I went, first 3 took me just under 10 minutes each, only left with 6 minutes for the last one. That's the real problem I have with games, the time pressure.
Hey if you have it and really enjoy having fun, do PT 6's games. That section is so fun, I did it because a lot of people said the island game is very similar to viruses (which it totally isn't after having done it). The section is like almost all misc games and I think like a time wasting grouping game.

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Re: The Official December 2016 Study Group - Time to register! New Poll!

Post by Hobbesy » Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:08 am

batlaw wrote:
harveybirdman502 wrote:
nimbus cloud wrote:
harveybirdman502 wrote:Anyone have tips on required assumption questions? I find the negation method a bit difficult to apply. It seems like some correct answers apply directly to one premise, which if it falls apart, so does the argument and conclusion. Others seem to apply to the overall connected argument.

For example, on PT 32 the answer choice is about one element in one of the premises. I got it right but how are you to determine which negations actually apply directly to the assumption? Also, can you use sufficient strategies here by identifying new elements in the conclusion and elements in the premises that do not appear in the conclusion?

These Qs have been a nightmare for me ever since the beginning. I don't know why this is so difficult. Is there only one assumption in each argument for these questions? :x
Which question? There's a couple of necessary assumption q's on PT32.
21 on Section 1. It's obvious why the answer is right but the question format seems quite different from others where an assumption is connecting premises and conclusion. 1 premise is knocked out and it makes the argument fall apart, but it seems like most other questions address a broader assumption structured to encompass both the premises and conclusion.

"A smoker trying to quit is more likely to succeed if his or her doctor greatly exaggerates the dangers of smoking. Similar strategies can be used to break other habits. But since such strategies involve deception, individuals cannot easily adopt them unless a doctor or some other third party provides the warning. Which one of the following is an assumption on which the argument depends?

(A) People tend to believe whatever doctors tell them.
(B) Most of the techniques that help people quit smoking can also help people break other habits.
(C) The more the relevant danger is exaggerated, the more likely one is to break one’s habit.
(D) People generally do not find it easy to deceive themselves.
(E) A doctor is justified in deceiving a patient whenever doing so is likely to make the patient healthier."

So going into this my pre-phrase/focus was on the bridge gap between the strategies involving deception and most individuals being unable to adopt them without doctor / third party.

For the negation method, I struggle a bit sometimes when I try too hard to directly re-word the answer choice to ensure it was correct. Another way to use the negation idea is to eliminate wrong answers. So I tend to do better when I go through the choices and ask myself "does this have to be true?"

(A) Nope, people don't have to believe whatever doctors tell them (too broad in scope). Also, this doesn't address the difference in handling deception between individuals and doctors.
(B) No. Again this is too broad. It could be true but it doesn't have to be true. Here we are only talking about strategies that involve exaggeration of dangers.
(C) No. Again this expands the idea.
(E) Nope. Justification does not enter the picture. Moreso, this goes beyond the deception to change habits discussed.

(D) Yes, has to be true. If people found it easy to deceive themselves why would they need doctors/3rd party to deceive them? [Also, I like the term generally here compared to the overly strong qualifiers in the other choices.]

I will say on my first quick pass I eliminated B, C, E and then A.
I felt a little warm and fuzzy inside when I read this and casually got the right answer. (the question seemed super familiar. Not sure if I've actually seen it before OR I know exactly how these "xyz is bad for your health" questions go at this point)

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Re: The Official December 2016 Study Group - Time to register! New Poll!

Post by Hobbesy » Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:10 am

You guys...I have a confession...

I have been so unmotivated to study. It's terrible. I really haven't picked up anything to study since I got my score back because I know in my heart RC was a fluke. :cry:

I DID try the 7 sage method for one RC passage and got all of the questions right. I was so satisfied. Now I'm here. Unmotivated again.

Edit: I know the December test is 5 weeks away and I have about 20 new practice tests to keep my company. How to get back into the swing of things asap?

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Re: The Official December 2016 Study Group - Time to register! New Poll!

Post by Greenteachurro » Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:15 am

Hobbesy wrote:You guys...I have a confession...

I have been so unmotivated to study. It's terrible. I really haven't picked up anything to study since I got my score back because I know in my heart RC was a fluke. :cry:

I DID try the 7 sage method for one RC passage and got all of the questions right. I was so satisfied. Now I'm here. Unmotivated again.

Edit: I know the December test is 5 weeks away and I have about 20 new practice tests to keep my company. How to get back into the swing of things asap?
Honestly, once I got my score back I was devastated and wanted to do anything other than study for the LSAT. But 30 minutes later I went ahead and looked at what I did wrong on that test and set up a study schedule for the two weeks that followed. Just putting pen to paper and kind of like mentally going like "I have X amount of time, I need to fix X in this time and this is what I plan on doing the next two weeks" was huge and I did started the very next day and then did 2 Pts that weekend.

ALSO I know this is weird and probably a highly personal motivator, but that video of young Ted Cruz saying that he wouldn't even associate with anyone who hasn't been to an Ivy League school (maybe its Harvard I don't quite remember) always makes me super motivated for some reason. I don't even like Ted Cruz... Maybe that's what fuels my hate fire.

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Re: The Official December 2016 Study Group - Time to register! New Poll!

Post by kindofcanuck » Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:32 am

Greenteachurro wrote: Hey if you have it and really enjoy having fun, do PT 6's games. That section is so fun, I did it because a lot of people said the island game is very similar to viruses (which it totally isn't after having done it). The section is like almost all misc games and I think like a time wasting grouping game.
I'm not sure if I have that far back, but thanks for the rec! Def think I need to be more prepared for 'weird' games, 'cause they can be such a time suck.

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Re: The Official December 2016 Study Group - Time to register! New Poll!

Post by Greenteachurro » Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:36 am

kindofcanuck wrote:
Greenteachurro wrote: Hey if you have it and really enjoy having fun, do PT 6's games. That section is so fun, I did it because a lot of people said the island game is very similar to viruses (which it totally isn't after having done it). The section is like almost all misc games and I think like a time wasting grouping game.
I'm not sure if I have that far back, but thanks for the rec! Def think I need to be more prepared for 'weird' games, 'cause they can be such a time suck.
Yeah that's been my strategy, which is to solidify my fundamentals and then work in some Misc games into my drills. I will not be paralyzed by another misc game!

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Re: The Official December 2016 Study Group - Time to register! New Poll!

Post by Mikey » Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:35 pm

Greenteachurro wrote:
Mikey wrote:Gonna do an LR section that I just put together with 30 difficult questions. let's see how this goes
How'd you do that? Like physically... are you just going to do the last 2 pages of 6 PTs?
i have my ways :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

but do you have the Cambridge packets? or any packet like it? just take like 1 page (so like 3/4 questions) of each question type in the harder difficulty section and just put them together. this would be a good way to do it if you have packets.

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Re: The Official December 2016 Study Group - Time to register! New Poll!

Post by Greenteachurro » Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:45 pm

Mikey wrote:
Greenteachurro wrote:
Mikey wrote:Gonna do an LR section that I just put together with 30 difficult questions. let's see how this goes
How'd you do that? Like physically... are you just going to do the last 2 pages of 6 PTs?
i have my ways :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

but do you have the Cambridge packets? or any packet like it? just take like 1 page (so like 3/4 questions) of each question type in the harder difficulty section and just put them together. this would be a good way to do it if you have packets.
No, but I just got that Manhattan prep drill book, but that separates the problems strangely. It's like divided by type and then again by PT and then again by section within the PT. So maybe I'll just go through some old PT's and tear out the last page or two and use those

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