Imposter syndrome...how to deal Forum
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Imposter syndrome...how to deal
Hey TLS,
I'm a recent grad studying for the bar. I have horrific (debilitating!) imposter syndrome. My LSAT was sub 25% for the T14 I attended. My 1L grades were below the median. Because of my grades and LSAT, I never felt smart enough to be around my peers. Granted, my grades improved 2L. But I still feel ~stupid~ most days.
I managed to get a job 2L, clerking with a regional office in a state where I have ties. I sent them my resume (GPA and all like a dumbass), and they hired me the next day. My time there was ok. But I always felt like everyone knew that ~I~ was the clerk with low grades. The other summer clerks I worked with were top of their class at a regional school.
Flash forward to now. I'm going to start as an associate at this firm in August. But boy do I have imposter syndrome. I'm wondering if TLSers have similar experiences or tips on how to handle this. Being a lawyer is stressful. But constantly feeling "less than" because of my grades will make it way worse. I go to therapy, try to stay positive, have a mental health regimen (meds and the whole thing). But this is gonna be killer. Any tips for getting over it?
And to be frank, the fact that most lawyers have imposter syndrome is not going to make me feel better given the above circumstances.
Thank you for any advice!
I'm a recent grad studying for the bar. I have horrific (debilitating!) imposter syndrome. My LSAT was sub 25% for the T14 I attended. My 1L grades were below the median. Because of my grades and LSAT, I never felt smart enough to be around my peers. Granted, my grades improved 2L. But I still feel ~stupid~ most days.
I managed to get a job 2L, clerking with a regional office in a state where I have ties. I sent them my resume (GPA and all like a dumbass), and they hired me the next day. My time there was ok. But I always felt like everyone knew that ~I~ was the clerk with low grades. The other summer clerks I worked with were top of their class at a regional school.
Flash forward to now. I'm going to start as an associate at this firm in August. But boy do I have imposter syndrome. I'm wondering if TLSers have similar experiences or tips on how to handle this. Being a lawyer is stressful. But constantly feeling "less than" because of my grades will make it way worse. I go to therapy, try to stay positive, have a mental health regimen (meds and the whole thing). But this is gonna be killer. Any tips for getting over it?
And to be frank, the fact that most lawyers have imposter syndrome is not going to make me feel better given the above circumstances.
Thank you for any advice!
- RunnerRunner
- Posts: 265
- Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:16 pm
Re: Imposter syndrome...how to deal
I think your assessment of yourself in comparison to your peers, especially at your place of employment, is way off. You are looking at your colleagues thinking "they have better grades than me, I'm not good enough," but they are looking at you thinking "OP went to a better school than me, I'm not good enough." You got into a t14. That's pretty exceptional. You should be proud of that, regardless of if you were below the LSAT 25th percentile (especially because if you were below that percentile, you are exceptional in other ways that impressed your school). You're definitely not stupid--there is a reason your school picked you, and a reason your employer hired you so quickly.
I think that no matter what, people always think they're not quite good enough. In the legal profession it looks something like this: people outside USNWR ranked law schools wish they had gotten into a USNWR ranked law school; people at USNWR ranked schools outside the t14 wish they had gotten into the t14; people in the t14 without a clerkship wish they had gotten a clerkship; people with a clerkship wish they had clerked on the Supreme Court; people who clerked on the Supreme Court, er... wish they were justices or something, and on and on. (That skips a lot of distinctions, but you get the idea.)
I don't have any specific tips for dealing with your impostor syndrome (hopefully someone else does). But from an objective outsider's perspective, I just think you are being way too hard on yourself. Keep your chin up.
I think that no matter what, people always think they're not quite good enough. In the legal profession it looks something like this: people outside USNWR ranked law schools wish they had gotten into a USNWR ranked law school; people at USNWR ranked schools outside the t14 wish they had gotten into the t14; people in the t14 without a clerkship wish they had gotten a clerkship; people with a clerkship wish they had clerked on the Supreme Court; people who clerked on the Supreme Court, er... wish they were justices or something, and on and on. (That skips a lot of distinctions, but you get the idea.)
I don't have any specific tips for dealing with your impostor syndrome (hopefully someone else does). But from an objective outsider's perspective, I just think you are being way too hard on yourself. Keep your chin up.
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Re: Imposter syndrome...how to deal
I'm a little confused. Why do you even...care...if they know you got bad grades? They went to shittier law schools than you. You're all incoming associates at some law firm, not clerks for Merrick Garland.
Perhaps this is harsh, but: None of you are superstars. And that's ok. Life isn't a competition.
Perhaps this is harsh, but: None of you are superstars. And that's ok. Life isn't a competition.
Last edited by LBJ's Hair on Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:00 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Imposter syndrome...how to deal
1) the LSAT and law school grades are not remotely close to being an objective measure of ability to be a good lawyer
2) even if they were, yours are objectively fine (you were being measured on a forced curve against people who collectively fall within a pretty narrow slice of grades/LSAT)
I realize the above probably isn't helpful because facts don't really alter your emotions, but those are the facts. TBH, what has helped me the most has been 1) actually accomplishing stuff as a lawyer and realizing I'm not incompetent (I don't like that this is dependent on outside affirmation rather than internal growth, but it's true), and 2) actually working with other lawyers at my level of experience and realizing that they're not all that and a bag of chips. I have a ton of really smart and wonderful colleagues, but imposter syndrome tends to take for granted the things that you actually have accomplished, presume that everyone else can do those things, and assume that everyone else is universally smarter and better than you. Working with people makes you realize they're not.
2) even if they were, yours are objectively fine (you were being measured on a forced curve against people who collectively fall within a pretty narrow slice of grades/LSAT)
I realize the above probably isn't helpful because facts don't really alter your emotions, but those are the facts. TBH, what has helped me the most has been 1) actually accomplishing stuff as a lawyer and realizing I'm not incompetent (I don't like that this is dependent on outside affirmation rather than internal growth, but it's true), and 2) actually working with other lawyers at my level of experience and realizing that they're not all that and a bag of chips. I have a ton of really smart and wonderful colleagues, but imposter syndrome tends to take for granted the things that you actually have accomplished, presume that everyone else can do those things, and assume that everyone else is universally smarter and better than you. Working with people makes you realize they're not.
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Re: Imposter syndrome...how to deal
I so agree with this. People don't compare themselves to the people behind them, but the people ahead; someone with a 90th percentile LSAT score doesn't think about the fact that they scored higher than 90% of the people who took it, but only thinks about the 10% who scored higher than they did.RunnerRunner wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:22 pmI think that no matter what, people always think they're not quite good enough. In the legal profession it looks something like this: people outside USNWR ranked law schools wish they had gotten into a USNWR ranked law school; people at USNWR ranked schools outside the t14 wish they had gotten into the t14; people in the t14 without a clerkship wish they had gotten a clerkship; people with a clerkship wish they had clerked on the Supreme Court; people who clerked on the Supreme Court, er... wish they were justices or something, and on and on. (That skips a lot of distinctions, but you get the idea.)
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Re: Imposter syndrome...how to deal
+1 to all of the above. Nobody else is thinking about your grades / LSAT or whatever. It's much more likely that to the extent anyone distinguishes between members of your class (they shouldnt and likely wont), your t14 will look more impressive than their honors.
Remember that you'll make mistakes, that's okay. Be proud of each thing you do, much will feel tedious but every once in a while, you'll feel like you did a real lawyer thing and it will feel good.
1000s of others are in the same boat. You're there bc you deserve to be.
Remember that you'll make mistakes, that's okay. Be proud of each thing you do, much will feel tedious but every once in a while, you'll feel like you did a real lawyer thing and it will feel good.
1000s of others are in the same boat. You're there bc you deserve to be.
- GFox345
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Re: Imposter syndrome...how to deal
I know I missed the party, but this is literally the most accurate thing I've ever read on TLS.RunnerRunner wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:22 pmI think that no matter what, people always think they're not quite good enough. In the legal profession it looks something like this: people outside USNWR ranked law schools wish they had gotten into a USNWR ranked law school; people at USNWR ranked schools outside the t14 wish they had gotten into the t14; people in the t14 without a clerkship wish they had gotten a clerkship; people with a clerkship wish they had clerked on the Supreme Court; people who clerked on the Supreme Court, er... wish they were justices or something, and on and on. (That skips a lot of distinctions, but you get the idea.)
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Re: Imposter syndrome...how to deal
I , like last poster, am a bit late to this but fully agree with his take on it. "Fake it till you make it" comes to mind (as a coping mechanism, if nothing else). I would say that the system (bar exam,etc) weeds out the bad seeds, but anyone who reads the discipline bar news knows that isn't true, and even that is only the extremes. Many of those were experienced partners with decent reputations. Just don't put so much pressure on yourself that you go out in flames is my point I suppose.
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Re: Imposter syndrome...how to deal
Don't let thoughts distract you from focusing on doing good work. Hard work beats out raw talent. Measure yourself by how much of your own potential you achieve, not against others. Meditation can be helpful for dealing with intrusive thoughts and annoying self judgments.
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Re: Imposter syndrome...how to deal
Proper perspective is what you need. You must come to understand, to really understand, just how fortunate you are. Reading books like the following will help:
A Song for Nagasaki: The Story of Takashi Nagai: Scientist, Convert, and Survivor of the Atomic Bomb
&
The Gulag Archipelago
Also, there’s a certain 20 oz. coffee mug sold by Fit Docs Merchandise on the Zazzle site with this message on it:
Blessed & Grateful
I bought it in order to help maintain perspective. It’s good to see that message every day.
Finally, try to spend some time in a third-world country (and not just in the tourist areas). I’ve found that this very quickly and very radically brings much perspective.
A Song for Nagasaki: The Story of Takashi Nagai: Scientist, Convert, and Survivor of the Atomic Bomb
&
The Gulag Archipelago
Also, there’s a certain 20 oz. coffee mug sold by Fit Docs Merchandise on the Zazzle site with this message on it:
Blessed & Grateful
I bought it in order to help maintain perspective. It’s good to see that message every day.
Finally, try to spend some time in a third-world country (and not just in the tourist areas). I’ve found that this very quickly and very radically brings much perspective.
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Re: Imposter syndrome...how to deal
Understanding you're fortunate doesn't have anything to do with fixing imposter syndrome. You can be grateful for your material comforts and still worry that you're a imposter in your work context. "Blessed and grateful" isn't exactly a solution.
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