Job prospects for a Canadian in Chicago (non T-14) Forum

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Ohh (no) Canada

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Job prospects for a Canadian in Chicago (non T-14)

Post by Ohh (no) Canada » Sun Feb 13, 2022 4:43 am

Hello,

As my username suggests I'm a Canadian whose considering attending law school in Illinois with the hopes of settling down in Chicago. The tough decision I'm faced with is the fact that my stats were not good enough to get into the University of Chicago or Northwestern.

The schools I have been admitted to are:
UIUC (25% scholarship)
Loyola (50% scholarship)
Kent (50% scholarship)

I wouldn't say that I'm big law or bust - I'd be perfectly happy working at a midsize firm - but the problem is that I would need a firm to sponsor me for a visa. As far as I know, this seems to be an expense that only big law firms tend to cover - although if someone could correct me on this I'd really appreciate it.

I guess what I'm hoping to find out is:
1-How much of deterrent will needing a firm to sponsor me for a visa be when it comes to the hiring process? How much does it cost? Can I reimburse the firm?
2-How much of a disadvantage will I face when it comes to finding work in Chicago if I don't attend either of the top 2 law schools in the state?
3-Are any of the options I'm faced with going to lead to a positive ROI (assuming I end up being an average student)?

FWIW I have been accepted to a Canadian law school that has decent career prospects (99% articling rate and median salary 80k/year). The only problem is that isn't in my home province and I have no intention to stay there long term. That being said, according to this link another option could be to work in Canada for 5 years and then request permission to take the Illinois bar:
https://www.ilbaradmissions.org/appinfo.action?id=3

What would you do in my shoes?

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Mullens

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Re: Job prospects for a Canadian in Chicago (non T-14)

Post by Mullens » Mon Feb 14, 2022 4:57 pm

Ohh (no) Canada wrote:
Sun Feb 13, 2022 4:43 am
Hello,

As my username suggests I'm a Canadian whose considering attending law school in Illinois with the hopes of settling down in Chicago. The tough decision I'm faced with is the fact that my stats were not good enough to get into the University of Chicago or Northwestern.

The schools I have been admitted to are:
UIUC (25% scholarship)
Loyola (50% scholarship)
Kent (50% scholarship)

I wouldn't say that I'm big law or bust - I'd be perfectly happy working at a midsize firm - but the problem is that I would need a firm to sponsor me for a visa. As far as I know, this seems to be an expense that only big law firms tend to cover - although if someone could correct me on this I'd really appreciate it.

I guess what I'm hoping to find out is:
1-How much of deterrent will needing a firm to sponsor me for a visa be when it comes to the hiring process? How much does it cost? Can I reimburse the firm?
2-How much of a disadvantage will I face when it comes to finding work in Chicago if I don't attend either of the top 2 law schools in the state?
3-Are any of the options I'm faced with going to lead to a positive ROI (assuming I end up being an average student)?

FWIW I have been accepted to a Canadian law school that has decent career prospects (99% articling rate and median salary 80k/year). The only problem is that isn't in my home province and I have no intention to stay there long term. That being said, according to this link another option could be to work in Canada for 5 years and then request permission to take the Illinois bar:
https://www.ilbaradmissions.org/appinfo.action?id=3

What would you do in my shoes?
I’m Canadian and work in Chicago biglaw. I would retake the LSAT in your shoes (which is something I did) until you can get into a better school with more money (also succeeded here). Your chances at biglaw from any of those schools are not great and you’d be spending way more than you need to. Most of the few Kent/Loyola grads we hire have serious connections that helped them get the job or like top 5% grades (the connections seem to matter more tbh). Odds of a positive ROI with your options is dim.

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njdevils2626

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Re: Job prospects for a Canadian in Chicago (non T-14)

Post by njdevils2626 » Mon Feb 14, 2022 6:57 pm

Mullens wrote:
Mon Feb 14, 2022 4:57 pm
Ohh (no) Canada wrote:
Sun Feb 13, 2022 4:43 am
Hello,

As my username suggests I'm a Canadian whose considering attending law school in Illinois with the hopes of settling down in Chicago. The tough decision I'm faced with is the fact that my stats were not good enough to get into the University of Chicago or Northwestern.

The schools I have been admitted to are:
UIUC (25% scholarship)
Loyola (50% scholarship)
Kent (50% scholarship)

I wouldn't say that I'm big law or bust - I'd be perfectly happy working at a midsize firm - but the problem is that I would need a firm to sponsor me for a visa. As far as I know, this seems to be an expense that only big law firms tend to cover - although if someone could correct me on this I'd really appreciate it.

I guess what I'm hoping to find out is:
1-How much of deterrent will needing a firm to sponsor me for a visa be when it comes to the hiring process? How much does it cost? Can I reimburse the firm?
2-How much of a disadvantage will I face when it comes to finding work in Chicago if I don't attend either of the top 2 law schools in the state?
3-Are any of the options I'm faced with going to lead to a positive ROI (assuming I end up being an average student)?

FWIW I have been accepted to a Canadian law school that has decent career prospects (99% articling rate and median salary 80k/year). The only problem is that isn't in my home province and I have no intention to stay there long term. That being said, according to this link another option could be to work in Canada for 5 years and then request permission to take the Illinois bar:
https://www.ilbaradmissions.org/appinfo.action?id=3

What would you do in my shoes?
I’m Canadian and work in Chicago biglaw. I would retake the LSAT in your shoes (which is something I did) until you can get into a better school with more money (also succeeded here). Your chances at biglaw from any of those schools are not great and you’d be spending way more than you need to. Most of the few Kent/Loyola grads we hire have serious connections that helped them get the job or like top 5% grades (the connections seem to matter more tbh). Odds of a positive ROI with your options is dim.
Also a Canadian working in Chicago biglaw and echo all of the above. Would not go to school in the US at any of your current options at those prices. Given you were accepted to a Canadian law school, which generally care more about GPA than LSAT, I'll assume similar to the above poster that you have a good enough GPA that you should retake the LSAT and apply again next year to have any serious shot.

As for the visa, it's not as big of an issue for Canadians who can get a TN visa for $50 without needing to go through the H1-B lottery. It's temporary (3 years, but can be renewed), but gives you time to get the H1-B without as much pressure.

Thought of working 5 years in Canada and moving to Chicago is not a realistic option and should not be part of the plan. You would need to be very lucky for that to work out.

Ohh (no) Canada

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Re: Job prospects for a Canadian in Chicago (non T-14)

Post by Ohh (no) Canada » Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:40 pm

@njdevils2626 and @Mullens Thank you so much for the response/perspective from lawyers working in Chicago big law. A few things that you know that will clarify things is that my GPA is not all that great, the Canadian law school that I got accepted to is a B2/L2 school so my GPA is sadly not competitive for Chicago or Northwestern.

That being said, I am open to rewriting the LSAT and reapplying next if it means getting a better a scholarship, but the problem is that my score is already pretty high (166). I may be able to squeak out an extra point or 2 but I'm not sure if that will really make a significant difference.

Also, I know that you said both Loyola and Kent are pretty much non-options when it comes to working in Big Law, and I would like to not rule that possibility out, but what about mid sized firms? Given that Big Law salaries in Toronto pay around 130k CAD/year and Chicago mid size firms pay 90k USD/yr (at least from what I've seen) do I still have a chance at coming out ahead if I practice at mid sized Chicago firm vs a big Toronto firm?

FWIW I'm willing to take the financial hit if it means having better a work-life balance in Chicago since the city is more affordable than Toronto. Is there a significant difference between the number of hours that associates at mid sized Chicago firms work vs big firms?

TIA!

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njdevils2626

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Re: Job prospects for a Canadian in Chicago (non T-14)

Post by njdevils2626 » Tue Feb 15, 2022 6:03 pm

Ohh (no) Canada wrote:
Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:40 pm
@njdevils2626 and @Mullens Thank you so much for the response/perspective from lawyers working in Chicago big law. A few things that you know that will clarify things is that my GPA is not all that great, the Canadian law school that I got accepted to is a B2/L2 school so my GPA is sadly not competitive for Chicago or Northwestern.

That being said, I am open to rewriting the LSAT and reapplying next if it means getting a better a scholarship, but the problem is that my score is already pretty high (166). I may be able to squeak out an extra point or 2 but I'm not sure if that will really make a significant difference.

Also, I know that you said both Loyola and Kent are pretty much non-options when it comes to working in Big Law, and I would like to not rule that possibility out, but what about mid sized firms? Given that Big Law salaries in Toronto pay around 130k CAD/year and Chicago mid size firms pay 90k USD/yr (at least from what I've seen) do I still have a chance at coming out ahead if I practice at mid sized Chicago firm vs a big Toronto firm?

FWIW I'm willing to take the financial hit if it means having better a work-life balance in Chicago since the city is more affordable than Toronto. Is there a significant difference between the number of hours that associates at mid sized Chicago firms work vs big firms?

TIA!
Thanks for the further info. I won't claim to be the authority on the Chicago legal market, but mid-size firms in general (1) tend to have very small incoming class sizes and only take 1 or 2 associates per year, and (2) can be highly ties-specific. Born and bred Chicagoans who graduate from Loyola and Kent and do well in law school may have these options, but I wouldn't consider it a likely outcome for a median international graduate. Not to mention that, even if you initially wouldn't need visa sponsorship to stay, the TN visa is only a three year visa (and is intended to be a temporary visa so can't be renewed forever reliably) and you would need to convince a firm to sponsor you within your first couple years. Knowing that they are unlikely to want to lay out the cost, I wouldn't consider it a likely alternative, I think you would have trouble interviewing.

Given your low GPA (which I also had coming in), your best bet may be to study up and retake the LSAT and score as high as possible. A ~172+ would likely net you significant money at WUSTL which is definitely not a guaranteed good outcome, but places significantly better in big law than the schools you mentioned. I think you would still need above-median placement to have a likelihood of working out well, and that is not something anyone can safely bank on.

I should note that I give the above advice with survivorship bias, as it is exactly what I did.

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