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want to know why you gun

actually i think gunners are funny guys

I was a gunner 1L (if you define gunner as someone who goes to class, does the reading, makes outlines, etc.). Got good grades, got the OCI offers I wanted, and then stopped gunning. It's the only way to fly.

gunner minus the talking in class/volunteering all 3 years because i wanted a job

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Capitol_Idea wrote:I was a gunner 1L (if you define gunner as someone who goes to class, does the reading, makes outlines, etc.). Got good grades, got the OCI offers I wanted, and then stopped gunning. It's the only way to fly.

?????????

this seems like regular law student behavior and not striving/gunning

e: unless regular law student behavior IS gunning?

e2: and in that case i feel like we need a new definition of gunning because gunning seems to me to mean unusually striver behavior

buckiguy_sucks wrote:

Capitol_Idea wrote:I was a gunner 1L (if you define gunner as someone who goes to class, does the reading, makes outlines, etc.). Got good grades, got the OCI offers I wanted, and then stopped gunning. It's the only way to fly.

?????????

this seems like regular law student behavior and not striving/gunning

e: unless regular law student behavior IS gunning?

e2: and in that case i feel like we need a new definition of gunning because gunning seems to me to mean unusually striver behavior

ia studying till 3:00am a gunning behaviour

buckiguy_sucks wrote:

Capitol_Idea wrote:I was a gunner 1L (if you define gunner as someone who goes to class, does the reading, makes outlines, etc.). Got good grades, got the OCI offers I wanted, and then stopped gunning. It's the only way to fly.

?????????

this seems like regular law student behavior and not striving/gunning

e: unless regular law student behavior IS gunning?

e2: and in that case i feel like we need a new definition of gunning because gunning seems to me to mean unusually striver behavior

Most law students do not go to every class, do all the reading, and make their own outlines fyi. Many attend when they have to, do little reading, and rely on commercial outlines or previous year outlines - so that's my baseline for the gunner def.

If we're talking 'gunner' as 'unhealthy/painfully idiotic striver', then no, I wasn't one. The people who HAVE to give their (idiotic) opinions in class, who butter up to professors constantly, or participate in a million extracurriculars. Those people are weird.

Capitol_Idea wrote:Most law students do not go to every class, do all the reading, and make their own outlines fyi. Many attend when they have to, do little reading, and rely on commercial outlines or previous year outlines - so that's my baseline for the gunner def.

I dunno dude, when I look around me in class, 95% of people are basically always there, almost everyone within my field of vision shows up with reading notes (and I sit exclusively in the back, not with the frontrow gunners), and I feel like can count the number of times someone took a pass on a call on one hand. Maybe our section is exceptionally gunnerish, though, and obvs I expect this to change dramatically after OCI.

Hand wrote:

Capitol_Idea wrote:Most law students do not go to every class, do all the reading, and make their own outlines fyi. Many attend when they have to, do little reading, and rely on commercial outlines or previous year outlines - so that's my baseline for the gunner def.

I dunno dude, when I look around me in class, 95% of people are basically always there, almost everyone within my field of vision shows up with reading notes (and I sit exclusively in the back, not with the frontrow gunners), and I feel like can count the number of times someone took a pass on a call on one hand. Maybe our section is exceptionally gunnerish, though, and obvs I expect this to change dramatically after OCI.

Yeah maybe my statement is more true at non-garbage schools

I think I tread the line between gunner and extremely prepared/talkative (and I have been called a gunner to my face, so it may just be that), but for me it is a matter of actually enjoying what I'm doing for once, and wanting to afford myself every opportunity I can. I spent 5 years of UG barely liking my work, so now that I actually enjoy it, I want to give it effort.

In regards to outcomes, I fully understand that I have little to no chance of getting certain jobs. But I would not be happy with myself if I didn't at least attempt to give myself those opportunities if I can. Which is why I still "gun" in 2L.

being active in class is not gunner, but the one who excessively spouts is

not a gunner, but probably a sniper.

unsweetened wrote:not a gunner, but probably a sniper.

My kind of guy.

KeYe88 wrote:being active in class is not gunner, but the one who excessively spouts is

I agree, but I think a lot of people don't see the distinction, and are quick to label any active participator "gunner".

EzraFitz wrote:

KeYe88 wrote:being active in class is not gunner, but the one who excessively spouts is

I agree, but I think a lot of people don't see the distinction, and are quick to label any active participator "gunner".

Does it really matter? Call me what you want, my behavior isn't going to hinge on someone else's opinion. I haven't taken a 1L class yet, but when I do have other classes I sit in the front row and put in effort - not to impress a teacher or other people, but I like to do the best that I can at whatever I do. Is that a gunner? Who cares? Maybe that's just my "going on 30" view?

bmathers wrote:

EzraFitz wrote:

KeYe88 wrote:being active in class is not gunner, but the one who excessively spouts is

I agree, but I think a lot of people don't see the distinction, and are quick to label any active participator "gunner".

Does it really matter? Call me what you want, my behavior isn't going to hinge on someone else's opinion. I haven't taken a 1L class yet, but when I do have other classes I sit in the front row and put in effort - not to impress a teacher or other people, but I like to do the best that I can at whatever I do. Is that a gunner? Who cares? Maybe that's just my "going on 30" view?

lol

Nobody cares that you read and you're prepared, everyone expects that as the baseline. If "put in effort" means when you get called you have a response, then good, that's expected. But if it means raising your hand every class to offer your opinion, then yeah no one cares in class what you think, you're wasting everyone else's time, and if you'd like to talk to the professor, do it outside class.

Gunners are a special breed -- let's now water them down.

-- raises hand in cold-calls-only classes
-- frequently starts off with, "it strikes me that..."
-- has ever (even once) said, "as judge _____ said in _____ v _____"
-- talks significantly longer than the professor clearly wanted in CC
-- ignores the rustings/groans of students around her
-- RAISES HAND AT THE VERY END OF CLASS when everyone is clearly hoping to actually get a spot in a lunch talk line
-- General unbearability as a direct result of their striviness

DCfilterDC wrote:

bmathers wrote:

EzraFitz wrote:

KeYe88 wrote:being active in class is not gunner, but the one who excessively spouts is

I agree, but I think a lot of people don't see the distinction, and are quick to label any active participator "gunner".

Does it really matter? Call me what you want, my behavior isn't going to hinge on someone else's opinion. I haven't taken a 1L class yet, but when I do have other classes I sit in the front row and put in effort - not to impress a teacher or other people, but I like to do the best that I can at whatever I do. Is that a gunner? Who cares? Maybe that's just my "going on 30" view?

lol

Nobody cares that you read and you're prepared, everyone expects that as the baseline. If "put in effort" means when you get called you have a response, then good, that's expected. But if it means raising your hand every class to offer your opinion, then yeah no one cares in class what you think, you're wasting everyone else's time, and if you'd like to talk to the professor, do it outside class.

Do your professors not solicit opinions? Many of mine do. I do get the sense that it annoys some classmates that the same people usually offer their opinion. When the professor is specifically asking us what we think on a certain topic I believe it is beneficial to me and to the class to participate. I usually wait for others to raise their hand, but after a period of awkward silence (giving others the chance to participate), I feel like why should I stop myself from participating just because I am pretty sure it annoys a few classmates. I am almost certainly a gunner in the eyes of a some in my class.

I guess my point is that I am also older and agree with the the idea that people should not let other people's shitty attitudes prevent them from participating in class, especially when it is solicited by professors. Also if a professor said something that is clearly confusing to most/many, why not ask for him/her to clarify? As long as it is on topic and not unduly holding up the class, it probably is more efficient for the prof. to clarify in class than have to explain it to each person individually during office hours.

None of my classmates consistently raise their hand to insert their opinion in class unless the professor explicitly asks for it. Does this happen at other schools? is that what being a gunner is?

Loquitur Res wrote:

DCfilterDC wrote:

bmathers wrote:

EzraFitz wrote:

KeYe88 wrote:being active in class is not gunner, but the one who excessively spouts is

I agree, but I think a lot of people don't see the distinction, and are quick to label any active participator "gunner".

Does it really matter? Call me what you want, my behavior isn't going to hinge on someone else's opinion. I haven't taken a 1L class yet, but when I do have other classes I sit in the front row and put in effort - not to impress a teacher or other people, but I like to do the best that I can at whatever I do. Is that a gunner? Who cares? Maybe that's just my "going on 30" view?

lol

Nobody cares that you read and you're prepared, everyone expects that as the baseline. If "put in effort" means when you get called you have a response, then good, that's expected. But if it means raising your hand every class to offer your opinion, then yeah no one cares in class what you think, you're wasting everyone else's time, and if you'd like to talk to the professor, do it outside class.

Do your professors not solicit opinions? Many of mine do. I do get the sense that it annoys some classmates that the same people usually offer their opinion. When the professor is specifically asking us what we think on a certain topic I believe it is beneficial to me and to the class to participate. I usually wait for others to raise their hand, but after a period of awkward silence (giving others the chance to participate), I feel like why should I stop myself from participating just because I am pretty sure it annoys a few classmates. I am almost certainly a gunner in the eyes of a some in my class.

I guess my point is that I am also older and agree with the the idea that people should not let other people's shitty attitudes prevent them from participating in class, especially when it is solicited by professors. Also if a professor said something that is clearly confusing to most/many, why not ask for him/her to clarify? As long as it is on topic and not unduly holding up the class, it probably is more efficient for the prof. to clarify in class than have to explain it to each person individually during office hours.

None of my classmates consistently raise their hand to insert their opinion in class unless the professor explicitly asks for it. Does this happen at other schools? is that what being a gunner is?

I have had at least 1 or 2 in every class I've taken. It's not the norm, but it happens. That really is more what being a gunner is about, going beyond being an intelligent, well-spoken, succinct speaker who participates at the right moments. I don't let people's opinions change how I act, but I certainly try to screen myself in such a way that I'm not a blathering toolbag who is literally wasting everyone's time. But again, I am a very talkative person, so that's why I sometimes feel on the line of being a gunner, and sometimes get lumped into that category. I try not to be "that guy", but sometimes people think you're "that guy" no matter what you do haha.

zhenders wrote:Gunners are a special breed -- let's now water them down.

-- raises hand in cold-calls-only classes
-- frequently starts off with, "it strikes me that..."
-- has ever (even once) said, "as judge _____ said in _____ v _____"
-- talks significantly longer than the professor clearly wanted in CC
-- ignores the rustings/groans of students around her
-- RAISES HAND AT THE VERY END OF CLASS when everyone is clearly hoping to actually get a spot in a lunch talk line
-- General unbearability as a direct result of their striviness

I think being a gunner is more about the frequency of this stuff than the fact that it exists (and you mention for a few that it is about frequency). Occasionally raising your hand in a cold call class isn't a big deal when the person is clearly struggling and the professor is giving "help them" eyes. But doing it on a daily basis? Yeah, chill.

I was a silent gunner. Did all the things behind the scenes to do well without talking about it much (though I wouldn't hesitate to share good supplements, outlines, etc. with others who asked me for them). But I made it a point to kind of be a wallflower in class. I never sounded good during cold calling since my effort was focused on fitting the points into my outline and thinking about how I can apply them on the exam. So I would often miss small details (which were ultimately irrelevant). Some gunners have the method of trying to intimidate their classmates with constant pontification during class, non-stop handraising, etc. I think thats a silly way to gun, since it blows your cover, makes people hate you, and gives them a sense of urgency to up their own game. Much better to actually be liked and have friends, while also leading others to underestimate you. Makes it that much easier to blow right past the competition when it counts.

bmathers wrote:I haven't taken a 1L class yet, but when I do have other classes

this, and everything from here on out is 160k

kaiser wrote:I was a silent gunner. Did all the things behind the scenes to do well without talking about it much (though I wouldn't hesitate to share good supplements, outlines, etc. with others who asked me for them). But I made it a point to kind of be a wallflower in class. I never sounded good during cold calling since my effort was focused on fitting the points into my outline and thinking about how I can apply them on the exam. So I would often miss small details (which were ultimately irrelevant). Some gunners have the method of trying to intimidate their classmates with constant pontification during class, non-stop handraising, etc. I think thats a silly way to gun, since it blows your cover, makes people hate you, and gives them a sense of urgency to up their own game. Much better to actually be liked and have friends, while also leading others to underestimate you. Makes it that much easier to blow right past the competition when it counts.

Being a silent gunner isn't really being a gunner, it is being a well prepared student. Without the obnoxious, overbearing spouting of your own opinions at inappropriate times, you're just hard-working. At worst, maybe a striver.

barkschool wrote:

bmathers wrote:I haven't taken a 1L class yet, but when I do have other classes

this, and everything from here on out is 160k

I love your AI avatar pic, but explain what "160k" means? As in, law school debt, or what? Thanks

bmathers wrote:

barkschool wrote:

bmathers wrote:I haven't taken a 1L class yet, but when I do have other classes

this, and everything from here on out is 160k

I love your AI avatar pic, but explain what "160k" means? As in, law school debt, or what? Thanks

Thanks!

As in, to be disregarded.