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I just got my financial aid award today from NYU and they'll be giving me no money. But, I do also have 90k for law school. Is it worth attending NYU at sticker with this 90k? Are 170k in loans worth it?

As of right now, I've also been waitlisted at Columbia, Berkeley, Michigan, and UCLA. I'm in at Davis and Lewis and Clark, with money from the latter and no info on scholly from Davis. I'm waiting to hear back from USC, UVA, and Stanford (and I won't be getting into Stanford). I'm at a 3.7/171. Is there any chance of negotiation either?

I wouldn't feel great about exhausting my entire savings for law school, personally. But to play this out, the $170k in loans you're talking about is actually going to be more like $211k total when it comes time to repay them. With a level payment over a 10 year am, your monthly payment is going to be $2,500/month. In BigLaw (which you'll basically have to do), your take home is $8,000/month in your first year. So, you'd be spending 31% of your after-tax income on debt service. I'd anticipate that being a pretty significant drain on my lifestyle.

So, I think you need some other options. Your cycle results confuse me. I feel like you should have better options. Did you apply to Duke, Cornell, Chicago, or Northwestern? I'm confident you'd get significant money from at least Duke, Cornell, and NW and those schools should be perfectly fine bets assuming you have typical goals. As things are, I'd almost advise retaking the cycle.

fliptrip wrote:I wouldn't feel great about exhausting my entire savings for law school, personally. But to play this out, the $170k in loans you're talking about is actually going to be more like $211k total when it comes time to repay them. With a level payment over a 10 year am, your monthly payment is going to be $2,500/month. In BigLaw (which you'll basically have to do), your take home is $8,000/month in your first year. So, you'd be spending 31% of your after-tax income on debt service. I'd anticipate that being a pretty significant drain on my lifestyle.

So, I think you need some other options. Your cycle results confuse me. I feel like you should have better options. Did you apply to Duke, Cornell, Chicago, or Northwestern? I'm confident you'd get significant money from at least Duke, Cornell, and NW and those schools should be perfectly fine bets assuming you have typical goals. As things are, I'd almost advise retaking the cycle.

I got waitlisted at Duke as well, I forgot to mention that. But I took myself off the waitlist to free it up for someone else, because I didn't anticipate going there off the waitlist.

My results are sorta confusing to me as well. If it's important, my 171 is a retake from a 166, and I have minor C&F issues (minor in possession from a few years ago and alcohol in the dorms).

Definitely defer to others on this, but that C&F issue doesn't seem big enough to skew your results. It looks like you've just been really unlucky. Like for Duke folks with your numbers or slightly worse get in 75% of the time, same with Michigan.

When did you apply? That could have a big impact on your results.

fliptrip wrote:Definitely defer to others on this, but that C&F issue doesn't seem big enough to skew your results. It looks like you've just been really unlucky. Like for Duke folks with your numbers or slightly worse get in 75% of the time, same with Michigan.

When did you apply? That could have a big impact on your results.

I applied to most of my schools in early November, but then applied to a few more in early January (NYU, Columbia, Michigan, and UVA).

Okay. Right now, with your options, I'd sit out a year and retake my cycle and get my apps in from Day 1. Also, make sure you apply to Cornell. If you're okay with NYC BigLaw they should be a great option for you on the cost end.

I just wouldn't feel good about carrying that much debt when better deals should be available.

fliptrip wrote:Okay. Right now, with your options, I'd sit out a year and retake my cycle and get my apps in from Day 1. Also, make sure you apply to Cornell. If you're okay with NYC BigLaw they should be a great option for you on the cost end.

I just wouldn't feel good about carrying that much debt when better deals should be available.

Thanks for the advice; I'll definitely consider it. My goal right now, I think, it to end up in Cali, so that might require some additional considerations. But I'll definitely consider sitting out for next year.

Where do you want to work and what type of work do want to do?

If Davis for free was an option and you wanted to be in (Northern) CA, then free Davis probably the better option.

Otherwise, NYU sticker is totally justifiable for NY/East Coast big law as long as you are open to staying in it for a few years to repay loans.

L’Étranger wrote:Where do you want to work and what type of work do want to do?

If Davis for free was an option and you wanted to be in (Northern) CA, then free Davis probably the better option.

Otherwise, NYU sticker is totally justifiable for NY/East Coast big law as long as you are open to staying in it for a few years to repay loans.

I would love to clerk right out of law school, and I think I want to do some sort of litigation work. Or maybe government, DOJ stuff. I do want to wait and see what I enjoy in 1L before deciding too strongly, though.

Cali is probably where I want to live, but I've also never been to NYC. I'm visiting NYU this week so I guess I'll know more about whether I like the city after I go.

+1 on sitting out and reapplying next year. With your numbers I think you'll get CLS eventually.

I took NYU at sticker over $67.5k from Michigan and $72K from Duke back in 2012, and while I absolutely loved my time at NYU, in restrospect it was a reckless decision lol.

I'm in a similar boat with NYU and it's common to hear advice to retake. But I was wondering how schools look at it if you reapply to a place that has already accepted you the year before? Furthermore, is it an option to put down a deposit, retake the LSAT in June, and then withdraw your enrollment if you score a good bit higher? I'm afraid that schools might frown upon that.

JWalker wrote:+1 on sitting out and reapplying next year. With your numbers I think you'll get CLS eventually.

I took NYU at sticker over $67.5k from Michigan and $72K from Duke back in 2012, and while I absolutely loved my time at NYU, in restrospect it was a reckless decision lol.

I got waitlisted at Duke and Michigan too, though. So something must be up with my application.

Tempo wrote:

JWalker wrote:+1 on sitting out and reapplying next year. With your numbers I think you'll get CLS eventually.

I took NYU at sticker over $67.5k from Michigan and $72K from Duke back in 2012, and while I absolutely loved my time at NYU, in restrospect it was a reckless decision lol.

I got waitlisted at Duke and Michigan too, though. So something must be up with my application.

I had a 172/3.8 and didn't have an acceptance from a T14 besides Georgetown until February. Had been stonewalled by the T6, rejected by Penn and Berekely, waitlisted by Cornell and UVA, and hadn't heard anything from the rest even though I sent in my apps in October. Naturally, I had the same doubts that something was wrong with my application as well.

From my experience, I'd recommend that you stay patient and wait it out. Eventually schools will want your 171. Even if you end up reapplying, just don't settle for less than your numbers. Had I reapplied I probably would have ended up with better offers lol.

I would not blow $90k to attend NYU and still have $200k debt in the end. That's insanity. Take a year off and appy to all the T14 earlier. Applying in Jan. was bad

I know several people who received nothing at nyu with your similar numbers, and they successfully negotiated up to 75k. one did have around 40k at chicago. that person went cornell (full ride)-->NU-->chicago-->NYU.

This was the 2013-2014 cycle.

I'm by no means an expert on this stuff, in fact I'm applying this year as well, but I think there are a few additional considerations here (someone chime in if I'm way off base):

I don't think, and I've heard this from people who ARE experts at this stuff, that applying in early January is all that terrible. It depends on exactly when in January you applied, but assuming it is truly early January (1st week) I don't think its a hugely bad thing. I will note that the advice given to me was based off of my numbers, which are relatively different from yours in both GPA/LSAT, so maybe in your situation it would make a bigger difference. Of course it would have been better to apply earlier though. I am in no way disputing that. But I think that its likely that there are other factor(s) contributing just as much if not more to your cycle. After all, you got into NYU after applying in January with your numbers which is the second highest-ranked school you applied to. NYU, if I'm not mistaken, has also just barely started handing out scholly money, and none of the named schollies. So its not like they are out of money or anything of that sort, yet.

My question to you is, did you tailor your PS to any of these schools and/or write a "Why X" for any of them? I'm now (wasn't always) of the belief that they truly can help your application IF you're someone whose application doesn't already indicate any ties to the area/shows that you might very well attend if admitted OR if you are potentially in danger of being YPed. I don't think any of your waitlists seem like YP though. I think that could be a consideration.

Another consideration, with regards to sitting out the cycle, is that I don't think its such a cut and dry decision because of the increase in applicants/high scores this cycle. If you, between now and then, are able to retake the LSAT and confident in your ability to improve your score, then by all means I would say go for it. But if you aren't/can't, then while I think it might still be a good move, I'm just honestly not sure. What if the trend of high scorers/more applicants continues into next cycle, making it an even more difficult cycle than this year? Does your applying earlier in next year's cycle outweigh that consideration? It might, it might not; I'm not in a position to say either way.

somethingelse55 wrote:I'm by no means an expert on this stuff, in fact I'm applying this year as well, but I think there are a few additional considerations here (someone chime in if I'm way off base):

I don't think, and I've heard this from people who ARE experts at this stuff, that applying in early January is all that terrible. It depends on exactly when in January you applied, but assuming it is truly early January (1st week) I don't think its a hugely bad thing. I will note that the advice given to me was based off of my numbers, which are relatively different from yours in both GPA/LSAT, so maybe in your situation it would make a bigger difference. Of course it would have been better to apply earlier though. I am in no way disputing that. But I think that its likely that there are other factor(s) contributing just as much if not more to your cycle. After all, you got into NYU after applying in January with your numbers which is the second highest-ranked school you applied to. NYU, if I'm not mistaken, has also just barely started handing out scholly money, and none of the named schollies. So its not like they are out of money or anything of that sort, yet.

My question to you is, did you tailor your PS to any of these schools and/or write a "Why X" for any of them? I'm now (wasn't always) of the belief that they truly can help your application IF you're someone whose application doesn't already indicate any ties to the area/shows that you might very well attend if admitted OR if you are potentially in danger of being YPed. I don't think any of your waitlists seem like YP though. I think that could be a consideration.

Another consideration, with regards to sitting out the cycle, is that I don't think its such a cut and dry decision because of the increase in applicants/high scores this cycle. If you, between now and then, are able to retake the LSAT and confident in your ability to improve your score, then by all means I would say go for it. But if you aren't/can't, then while I think it might still be a good move, I'm just honestly not sure. What if the trend of high scorers/more applicants continues into next cycle, making it an even more difficult cycle than this year? Does your applying earlier in next year's cycle outweigh that consideration? It might, it might not; I'm not in a position to say either way.

I wouldn't retake the LSAT. I got a 171, which was in-line with all my PTs and I studied for months. There's nothing that can improve that except luck. I think you're right though, there's no reason I should expect better results next cycle I wouldn't think. I didn't write a "why X" for any school, which I think now was a huge mistake. I think UCLA was a YP, others I'm not so sure.

baal hadad wrote:I would not blow $90k to attend NYU and still have $200k debt in the end. That's insanity. Take a year off and appy to all the T14 earlier. Applying in Jan. was bad

Jw, if I rephrased this to say that NYU was offering me 30k a year, would you say it's worth it?

Tempo wrote:

baal hadad wrote:I would not blow $90k to attend NYU and still have $200k debt in the end. That's insanity. Take a year off and appy to all the T14 earlier. Applying in Jan. was bad

Jw, if I rephrased this to say that NYU was offering me 30k a year, would you say it's worth it?

170k in loans in still very scary. Nonetheless, if you're dead set on biglaw, chances are you'll get it from NYU, which should make the loan debt relatively manageable.

But the thing is, chances are you'll get biglaw out of most of the other T14s as well. That's why I think you should just be patient for now. A lot more people get off the waitlist than you might think, and many of them end up with scholarships. That being the case, almost everyone on TLS would advise you to take, let's just say, Duke at 60K, which is certainly a possibility, over NYU at sticker. With your numbers, you could end up with CLS off the waitlist too sometime in May or June and as much as I love NYU, CLS is a no-brainer over NYU if they're at the same price. Trust me, I know it's frustrating (imagine how I felt staring at only a GT acceptance with a 172/3.8 in late February lol). Just hang in there and wait for a bit. Ask this question again if May rolls in and NYU at sticker is still your only feasible option.

JWalker wrote:

Tempo wrote:

baal hadad wrote:I would not blow $90k to attend NYU and still have $200k debt in the end. That's insanity. Take a year off and appy to all the T14 earlier. Applying in Jan. was bad

Jw, if I rephrased this to say that NYU was offering me 30k a year, would you say it's worth it?

as much as I love NYU, CLS is a no-brainer over NYU if they're at the same price.

Why?

No, don't go to NYU with no scholarships.

ih8makingscreennames wrote:

JWalker wrote:

Tempo wrote:

baal hadad wrote:I would not blow $90k to attend NYU and still have $200k debt in the end. That's insanity. Take a year off and appy to all the T14 earlier. Applying in Jan. was bad

Jw, if I rephrased this to say that NYU was offering me 30k a year, would you say it's worth it?

as much as I love NYU, CLS is a no-brainer over NYU if they're at the same price.

Why?

Employment numbers. Only slightly better IMO, but better nonetheless. Thus if they're for the same price there's no question you should go to the school that gives you a better shot at getting a job. I absolutely loved my time at NYU and don't regret anything, but you go to law school to get a job, which for most people ends up being a biglaw job, and CLS undeniably beats NYU when it comes to odds of getting biglaw.

I think you should retake, as dumb as that sounds. It's definitely possible to get a few points on a 171 (to, say, ~174) with some study. That at least puts you >75th for all of CCN and makes up for the mediocre GPA. If you snag both NY schools, you have much more room to negotiate for money. As it stands, your results are awful. If you really don't want to sit out a year, I guess NYU is vaguely justifiable, if miserable on the back end.

I also doubt that the time of your application or your very minor C&F issues had any impact.