Top Law Schools

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What about a JD/MBA program? Several top schools have 3 year programs.

Hornet2011 wrote:3.54/166

You'll know more after a retake, but with those stats it's unlikely you'll get significant schoolies from any T-14. You're probably looking at some money from WUSTL/Vandy/Texas possibly but it's hard to know. You're current position is enviable and I would avoid law school altogether. If for some reason you NEED to find out if practicing law is fun (it might be, but everyone seems to think otherwise) then you should retake until 170+ for significant schollies to T14 schools. Anything less than that and the likelihood of good outcomes are diminished.

It's also possible that you're employer will pay for MBA or MBA/JD, something you should look into.

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I left a pretty successful career to go to law school. However, my circumstances were not really comparable to yours

1. My work experience was more applicable to the type of law I am pursuing
2. My work experience is not really great for MBA admissions
3. My prior employer worked me pretty hard for not a lot of money (close to biglaw hours for close to what you are making)

I think if I were in yours shoes, I would either stay put or get an MBA (without the JD).

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A legal career can vary vastly depending on what you want to do (and how well you open doors with your performance/networking). You say you want to be a lawyer -- why do you want be a lawyer? What types of practices do you think you might enjoy?

If your goals are realistic (i.e., you're interested in fields that actually hire significant numbers of associates, and you have some idea what to expect when you get there), then sure, go for it. But do your research regarding your objectives, and do the math on the opportunity cost.

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I'll give info where I can, with the disclaimer that I am a 3L and most of the info is based on conversations with more experienced attorneys at law firms, a close relative who is a gov't attorney, and about 6 months of experience in law firms. You'll want to get more opinions obviously.

(1) I have always been fascinated by the law from an early age. Even in my humanities graduate studies I always had some sort of legal tilt to it. This in and of itself is a terrible reason to go to law school. I also am aware from what I hear the actual practice of law is far less fascinating. Nevertheless I did want to mention this point to dispel the notion that this is some relatively new idea.

This is fine, but obviously not a sufficient reason to go to law school. Being interested in legal policy is probably a plus for doing well in law school, but it certainly won't set you apart.

(2) Frankly, the intersection of the law and business is probably what I find so intriguing and could see myself doing work in this field. Nevertheless, I have to admit I have no idea if those are "unicorn" jobs or if they are relatively plentiful.

What you've described (legal issues arising from business deals) is a huge and diverse field that hires a ton of associates. It's not my focus, so I don't have much info to share. I'd search this forum for threads discussing the day-to-day life of transactional attorneys. What I can say is that if you go to a T14 and do reasonably well (at or around median), you'd have an excellent chance to land a biglaw job doing something close to what you're describing.

(3) Point 3 is a little far off in the distance, but I somehow envisage my ability to practice law to be a good for society in the future. I am not thinking i will save the planet or anything too lofty, but be able to help a community group that has to properly negotiate a contract do so, or help a friend start a new business and ensure they have somebody providing them with the best legal work possible.

I wouldn't count on any warm-and-fuzzy feelings arising from your practice of law -- most of us are in it for the money and, to a lesser extent, the status. Your most likely career path would be big firm for a few years, then transition in-house to handle legal issues for a big company. Given your experience, you probably have a sense for about how rewarding you would find that.

Opportunity cost. To me this is the big sticking point and I know it is only something I can decide on what is the right call. Taking a "conservative estimate" of what I make today, assuming no raises and average bonuses, I would be forgoing probably a year 30k in what I put away via various accounts to retirement savings, plus another 10k I am able to stash away from bonuses and what not.

For what it's worth, I calculated my opportunity cost as follows:

Each year in school, I'd be spending $40k instead of making $70k (after taxes). So $110k per year difference multiplied by number of years (note: I'm assuming COL would be roughly equal whether in school or working). I went to law school mostly to find more challenging work, but the salary upgrade also pretty clearly makes the investment worthwhile.

This seems like a good time to plug Northwestern's AJD program, which lets you finish law school in 2 years instead of 3.

Hornet2011 wrote: (1) I have always been fascinated by the law from an early age. Even in my humanities graduate studies I always had some sort of legal tilt to it. This in and of itself is a terrible reason to go to law school. I also am aware from what I hear the actual practice of law is far less fascinating. Nevertheless I did want to mention this point to dispel the notion that this is some relatively new idea.

I would say that this fascination is necessary, but not sufficient for law school. Law is a bunch of paper pushing at its core, with occasional brief "fun" interactions. If you're interested in spending a bunch of time reading and writing in order to get the occasional chance to argue with people... this is the field for you.

(2) I grew up in a family where my father was a businessman constantly doing transactions and mergers with other companies and/or engaged in lawsuits with other entities over everything from the environmental degradation of property to wrongful terminations etc. Today in my current job I am constantly involved in franchise based legal actions. Besides the fact that I find all of these things fascinating despite how utterly boring I know it can be to others to read through a 100 page franchise agreement, I see how on a day to day basis how intertwined legal issues are with the proper functioning of a business. Frankly, the intersection of the law and business is probably what I find so intriguing and could see myself doing work in this field. Nevertheless, I have to admit I have no idea if those are "unicorn" jobs or if they are relatively plentiful.

Business and transactional law is enormous. In fact, you should do some research and pick out what areas of corporate law interests you. Franchise law is its own niche, mergers and acquisitions are their own niche, etc. It doesn't hurt to have 3 or 4 areas in corporate law picked out so that you can try them each on for size.

(3) Point 3 is a little far off in the distance, but I somehow envisage my ability to practice law to be a good for society in the future. I am not thinking i will save the planet or anything too lofty, but be able to help a community group that has to properly negotiate a contract do so, or help a friend start a new business and ensure they have somebody providing them with the best legal work possible.

Any "good for society" law is going to either be at or near pro bono (not getting paid) and a small piece of the pie for you in the corporate world. The fact is that many people want to save the planet (or do slightly less lofty things for society) only to realize that the law aint gonna change, no matter how passionate they are. If you want to help community groups, gather influence in your community and sit on their board. You'll be much more helpful in that position than as a penny-ante lawyer who reviews their standard form contract for errors. Of course, you don't need a law degree to do that.

Edit: Cleaning up some of the leftover quote that i missed

Again thanks Totesthegoat and KCDC for the feedback. It truly is very much appreciated. I am definitely going to do some research into the practice areas you mentioned.

It's a hard decision for sure, but your comments have helped me to think more deeply about the choice and consider my motivations and what paths will help me to best achieve my goals. Presently about a week away from my LSAT retake and I am feeling quite confident.

Need more information. In which industry do you work currently ? How many years with your current employer ? What are your main likes & dislikes in your present position ? Current base salary ? Advancement opportunity with current employer ?

Retake the LSAT & take the GMAT to further define your educational options.

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Tough call, but you work in a heavily impacted industry if the predictions of a recession in 2018 materialize.

Take the tests (LSAT & GMAT) to see what educational options develop. Certainly an MBA from a top 7 school should be worth the time & sacrifice based on an average starting salary & bonus in the 130s. Law school should also yield positive results if you can get a substantial scholarship to a T-14 school & get a biglaw position for at least 4 years.

Attending graduate school during a recession would be wise since your lost opportunity cost might be quite low if laid-off from your recession sensitive industry.

Although law is your interest (cannot write passion because you've never practiced law), an MBA from an elite business school might be the safer route enabling you to switch industries at a much higher starting salary level.

In short, you are likely to change industries if a recession hits so preparing for an industry change is wise if you can get into a top school at low cost.

Caterpillar just announced 10,000 layoffs to occur over the next few years (lots of exposure in China). If Cat is your company, then a layoff may be coming.

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never. you might get lucky but going into a profession that 90%+ dont like is probably always a mistake if you are doing something you dont hate.

The way I like to look at it is that any career I pursue would be a successful one, therefore when I go to Law School, it's irrelevant what potential career(s) I leave behind. (Btw there is some I have been actually successful at.) I mean you're not necessarily leaving your career, Law will be your career, so that was just a job. Perhaps you run a company (LLC and you are a member) or any other way you have any shareholders interest (not %) in any company; in a way you can still do that in Law School, or make a strategic plan for it while you are away. Imagine considering getting an MBA after you get your J.D. You may get an MBA when you go and get an LLM. On top of practicing law for a couple of years, you will be easily accepted and can demonstrate the need of an MBA, your interests in each respective program, leadership potential, the ability to complete a program, practice for better scores, etc.