Top Law Schools

This may sound stupid.. But I'm
Genuinely just learning about all of this and would seriously like to know. Why is there such a push towards big law? What about government or working for small firms then eventually opening up your own? Is it impossible to live comfortably working for the gov or a small firm? Please feel free to send me to a diff thread if my question has already been answered. I'm just trying to understand why everyone is gunning for big law?

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People want biglaw because of the status and money.

patogordo wrote:$

Do you know the differences in salary between big law/ small/ and gov?

Money and regular hiring schedules.

law school debt

kwabbs wrote:

patogordo wrote:$

Do you know the differences in salary between big law/ small/ and gov?

50k vs. 160k

http://www.nalp.org/class_of_2013_bimodal_salary_curve

d cooper wrote:

kwabbs wrote:

patogordo wrote:$

Do you know the differences in salary between big law/ small/ and gov?

50k vs. 160k




Wow, quite the difference.. I'm assuming the market is best to enter big law upon graduation vs. Years Post grad?

People gunning for Biglaw tend to be motivated primarily by money. Either they think it's a path to wealth, a means to pay off their sizable student loan debt, or both.

There is nothing wrong with making $50-60k in a small firm or gov't job, but if you have $100-150k in debt, you may find yourself in a financial bind.

Additionally, hiring for Federal Gov jobs that actually pay decently is highly unpredictable, takes place 3L year, and super competitive. For a typical grad of a T14 school BigLaw is just the simplest and most financially rewarding path to a job. Federal government jobs usually pay a bit better then what was mentioned though, starting at around 60-80k but going up to around 110k in only 3 years.

kwabbs wrote: Wow, quite the difference.. I'm assuming the market is best to enter big law upon graduation vs. Years Post grad?

this is part of the 'draw' to big law - it's very difficult to get a job in big law post grad (especially years post grad) unless you have something unique to offer. however, it's relatively 'easy' to get a big law job out of law school (assuming good school/grades). that, plus the quick $ to pay down the debt and fairly little downside (you can leave big law to do pretty much anything you could have done right out of law school) .. that's the hype

toothbrush wrote:

kwabbs wrote: Wow, quite the difference.. I'm assuming the market is best to enter big law upon graduation vs. Years Post grad?

this is part of the 'draw' to big law - it's very difficult to get a job in big law post grad (especially years post grad) unless you have something unique to offer. however, it's relatively 'easy' to get a big law job out of law school (assuming good school/grades). that, plus the quick $ to pay down the debt and fairly little downside (you can leave big law to do pretty much anything you could have done right out of law school) .. that's the hype

From what I've read and heard from family friends in big law, they typically work their new grads really hard right, 12 hour days every day etc. Is that something to expect from all types of firms or just big law?

kwabbs wrote:

toothbrush wrote:

kwabbs wrote: Wow, quite the difference.. I'm assuming the market is best to enter big law upon graduation vs. Years Post grad?

this is part of the 'draw' to big law - it's very difficult to get a job in big law post grad (especially years post grad) unless you have something unique to offer. however, it's relatively 'easy' to get a big law job out of law school (assuming good school/grades). that, plus the quick $ to pay down the debt and fairly little downside (you can leave big law to do pretty much anything you could have done right out of law school) .. that's the hype

From what I've read and heard from family friends in big law, they typically work their new grads really hard right, 12 hour days every day etc. Is that something to expect from all types of firms or just big law?

Depends on the size of the firm. There's a great thread here that will answer this question better than I.

Frankly, the main draw once you get over the money factor is that they are the only employers who consistently hire law graduates. Which is IMO one of the worst/dumbest things about this field. If you miss the biglaw boat you're suddenly in a no man's land situation where almost everyone else is only willing to hire someone with 2+ years of experience (and 50% of the time the required experience is big firm work). This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't for big law firms only being willing to hire based on high grades and to a lesser extent school prestige--thus preventing a huge portion of law grads from actually attaining a job as an attorney after graduating law school. I don't know of any other field set up in such a ridiculous manner.

you don't know of any other fields where it's basically impossible to get a job without years of experience and that experience is almost impossible to obtain?

patogordo wrote:you don't know of any other fields where it's basically impossible to get a job without years of experience and that experience is almost impossible to obtain?

Serving.. lol

patogordo wrote:$

+

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

not sure is above post is satire or serious. If satire then well done.

People don't realize all the fun and useful things you can do with a law degree like be a sports agent or work for the Sierra Club.

KingDongKong wrote:People don't realize all the fun and useful things you can do with a law degree like be a sports agent or work for the Sierra Club.

IDK man, there was a post on my simplicity for a staff attorney at Defenders for Wild Life, and Deputy Commissioner of the FTC. Sounds entry level.

flawschoolkid wrote:

KingDongKong wrote:People don't realize all the fun and useful things you can do with a law degree like be a sports agent or work for the Sierra Club.

IDK man, there was a post on my simplicity for a staff attorney at Defenders for Wild Life, and Deputy Commissioner of the FTC. Sounds entry level.

If more law students had the creativity to find jobs like that we wouldn't be hearing all this talk about unemployment.

BruceWayne wrote:Frankly, the main draw once you get over the money factor is that they are the only employers who consistently hire law graduates. Which is IMO one of the worst/dumbest things about this field. If you miss the biglaw boat you're suddenly in a no man's land situation where almost everyone else is only willing to hire someone with 2+ years of experience (and 50% of the time the required experience is big firm work). This wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't for big law firms only being willing to hire based on high grades and to a lesser extent school prestige--thus preventing a huge portion of law grads from actually attaining a job as an attorney after graduating law school. I don't know of any other field set up in such a ridiculous manner.

It would still be a problem if firms didn't focus on grades and school prestige. It's not like firms are sitting on thousands of jobs but are simply choosing not to give them out for lack of "qualified" candidates or something. Removing the grade/school factor would just make it way less predictable who got which jobs.

Money. Quality of training (what you learn from others on the job). Quality of matter/representation (big clients who pay $$$ don't cut as many corners). Practice area/subject matter (many types only available at biglaw or elite boutiques). Flexibility transition into the many types of other practices/careers as listed above.

Like others have said, it's the path of least resistance for people with the right credentials. You essentially get hired after your 1L year, and it's based mostly on your school and your grades rather than interview skills, hustling, and demonstrated interest. And it pays enough to at least make a dent in loans.

Believe it or not, there are also some people that have an interest in what big firms do.

Bronte wrote: Believe it or not, there are also some people that have an interest in what big firms do.

I'm enjoying it more than I thought I would.