Top Law Schools

For strategy consulting would it be better to get a JD or MBA to get a position with a top consulting firm. Would it be worth it to get both?

No.

Just go do consulting now. Don't go to law school must you want to become a lawyer.

MBA.
It is a business job so a business degree would be best. It would also save you about 50K since B-school is a year shorter. On another note, way too many people on these boards have been asking about whether a JD is a backdoor into business lately . It isn't.

Thanks for the advice. A dual degree is a lot more debt to take on

Definitely MBA.

MBB all recruit disproportionately more MBAs and JD/MBAs than JDs. Bain in particular really does not put a focus on JDs at all.

Try to get it without an MBA first. If that doesn't work, get an MBA.

do you actually learn anything in b-school? i thought b-school was all about making friends and establishing connections and doing OCIs.

Why would you ever get a Jd to not be a lawyer

I was in strategy/management consulting after undergrad. Just go straight from UG, do a 2 yr program, then get an mba. The JD dual is only useful if you think you want to practice law instead/in addition.

What is it with all these people talking about going into professions outside of law with legal degrees these days? It makes no sense, and the boomer shitheads telling you the JD can do anything..lol

If you can get into a top MBA program, you'll have a much easier route to MBB. McKinsey, for example, will hire about 80 members (15%) of the Columbia Business School class alone, and similar proportions I imagine among other top programs. And with the early timing of recruiting and the fact that places like Wharton, CBS, Stern, etc. don't even disclose grades the pressure will be much less than law school. However, the caveat is outside the top 10 MBA programs, you'll very likely never get MBB--just a fact--unless you have some prior connection.

McKinsey does recruit at top law schools, e.g. T6, but not sure how it works.

Don't get a JD unless you want to practice law.

snooze wrote:do you actually learn anything in b-school? i thought b-school was all about making friends and establishing connections and doing OCIs.

You do actually learn stuff in business school. At the very least, you should have an understanding of basic accounting, Time-Value of Money, and other such stuff that's considered so basic in business/finance that you'll stick out like a sore thumb for not knowing it. The general gist is to give you at least a foundation knowledge of all the key areas of business (e.g. marketing, management, finance, economics, accounting, basic legal stuff). You can schedule all fluff classes (generally, anything with the word "international" in the title) as electives, and I doubt anyone would bat an eyelid, but you can also take hardcore shit, like how to analyze creditworthiness, or how to value securities (fundamental vs technical, Black-Scholes, Modigliani-Miller, etc.), or you can delve deeper into certain subjects (basically, prep classes for CPA, CFA, CFP, etc.)

guano wrote:

snooze wrote:do you actually learn anything in b-school? i thought b-school was all about making friends and establishing connections and doing OCIs.

You do actually learn stuff in business school. At the very least, you should have an understanding of basic accounting, Time-Value of Money, and other such stuff that's considered so basic in business/finance that you'll stick out like a sore thumb for not knowing it. The general gist is to give you at least a foundation knowledge of all the key areas of business (e.g. marketing, management, finance, economics, accounting, basic legal stuff). You can schedule all fluff classes (generally, anything with the word "international" in the title) as electives, and I doubt anyone would bat an eyelid, but you can also take hardcore shit, like how to analyze creditworthiness, or how to value securities (fundamental vs technical, Black-Scholes, Modigliani-Miller, etc.), or you can delve deeper into certain subjects (basically, prep classes for CPA, CFA, CFP, etc.)

Thanks, this is good to know.

guano wrote:

snooze wrote:do you actually learn anything in b-school? i thought b-school was all about making friends and establishing connections and doing OCIs.

You do actually learn stuff in business school. At the very least, you should have an understanding of basic accounting, Time-Value of Money, and other such stuff that's considered so basic in business/finance that you'll stick out like a sore thumb for not knowing it. The general gist is to give you at least a foundation knowledge of all the key areas of business (e.g. marketing, management, finance, economics, accounting, basic legal stuff). You can schedule all fluff classes (generally, anything with the word "international" in the title) as electives, and I doubt anyone would bat an eyelid, but you can also take hardcore shit, like how to analyze creditworthiness, or how to value securities (fundamental vs technical, Black-Scholes, Modigliani-Miller, etc.), or you can delve deeper into certain subjects (basically, prep classes for CPA, CFA, CFP, etc.)

Okay but none of this stuff is outside the scope of an undergraduate econometrics II or financial modeling class. Doesn't need to be a graduate degree.

We did black scholes in my PDE class

The short answer is "no."

However, there are a couple of caveats.

Assuming you are interested in an elite management consulting job (think McKinsey, Bain, BCG), then there are really only a few opportunities - or "on-ramps" - to enter the industry:

a) As an undergrad with a stellar academic background,
b) As a graduate student with a top-ranked MBA, and
c) As a professional at the top of your field.

If you're somewhere in between these phases of your career, your best bet might be to get an MBA in order to get a strategy consulting internship and job offer.

In none of these cases does a law degree really prepare you for a career in consulting. However, if you're unlikely to get admitted to a well-ranked MBA program, you could consider a different graduate degree (probably not a JD) in order to "level up."

jbagelboy wrote:

guano wrote:

snooze wrote:do you actually learn anything in b-school? i thought b-school was all about making friends and establishing connections and doing OCIs.

You do actually learn stuff in business school. At the very least, you should have an understanding of basic accounting, Time-Value of Money, and other such stuff that's considered so basic in business/finance that you'll stick out like a sore thumb for not knowing it. The general gist is to give you at least a foundation knowledge of all the key areas of business (e.g. marketing, management, finance, economics, accounting, basic legal stuff). You can schedule all fluff classes (generally, anything with the word "international" in the title) as electives, and I doubt anyone would bat an eyelid, but you can also take hardcore shit, like how to analyze creditworthiness, or how to value securities (fundamental vs technical, Black-Scholes, Modigliani-Miller, etc.), or you can delve deeper into certain subjects (basically, prep classes for CPA, CFA, CFP, etc.)

Okay but none of this stuff is outside the scope of an undergraduate econometrics II or financial modeling class. Doesn't need to be a graduate degree.

We did black scholes in my PDE class

Don't know - I was a creative writing major in undergrad

jbagelboy wrote:

guano wrote:

snooze wrote:do you actually learn anything in b-school? i thought b-school was all about making friends and establishing connections and doing OCIs.

You do actually learn stuff in business school. At the very least, you should have an understanding of basic accounting, Time-Value of Money, and other such stuff that's considered so basic in business/finance that you'll stick out like a sore thumb for not knowing it. The general gist is to give you at least a foundation knowledge of all the key areas of business (e.g. marketing, management, finance, economics, accounting, basic legal stuff). You can schedule all fluff classes (generally, anything with the word "international" in the title) as electives, and I doubt anyone would bat an eyelid, but you can also take hardcore shit, like how to analyze creditworthiness, or how to value securities (fundamental vs technical, Black-Scholes, Modigliani-Miller, etc.), or you can delve deeper into certain subjects (basically, prep classes for CPA, CFA, CFP, etc.)

Okay but none of this stuff is outside the scope of an undergraduate econometrics II or financial modeling class. Doesn't need to be a graduate degree.

We did black scholes in my PDE class

Remember that about 80% of MBA students are not business undergrads. So they have never taken things like Advanced econ or finance classes, or even basics in accounting and the like.

You can go straight from undergrad, but you need an outstanding academic background, and solid technical skills would make you more competitive. You'd be a business analyst, not an associate. I think business analysts usually make 60-70k, excluding bonuses.

If you get an MBA you are hired as an associate and make 90k+, excluding bonuses. Good grades are helpful at this point, but you don't need to be stellar. If you really want the job you need to network for it. I knew a guy in grad school whom I never saw doing schoolwork; he was too busy networking, leveraging his contacts, and practicing business cases for interviews. Dude got interviews with Boston Consulting Group, Deloitte, and some other places and ended up getting a job with McKinsey.

whelmer wrote:You can go straight from undergrad, but you need an outstanding academic background, and solid technical skills would make you more competitive. You'd be a business analyst, not an associate. I think business analysts usually make 60-70k, excluding bonuses.

If you get an MBA you are hired as an associate and make 90k+, excluding bonuses. Good grades are helpful at this point, but you don't need to be stellar. If you really want the job you need to network for it. I knew a guy in grad school whom I never saw doing schoolwork; he was too busy networking, leveraging his contacts, and practicing business cases for interviews. Dude got interviews with Boston Consulting Group, Deloitte, and some other places and ended up getting a job with McKinsey.

Quick correction here.. base salary at all major consulting firms for an associate right now are $135-140k w/ first year guaranteed comp ~180k (base+signing+retirement) and topping out at $200k+ depending on year-end performance bonus.

Grades don't matter at all but JD hiring is almost exclusively from Top 10 schools.

Instinctive wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:

guano wrote:

snooze wrote:do you actually learn anything in b-school? i thought b-school was all about making friends and establishing connections and doing OCIs.

You do actually learn stuff in business school. At the very least, you should have an understanding of basic accounting, Time-Value of Money, and other such stuff that's considered so basic in business/finance that you'll stick out like a sore thumb for not knowing it. The general gist is to give you at least a foundation knowledge of all the key areas of business (e.g. marketing, management, finance, economics, accounting, basic legal stuff). You can schedule all fluff classes (generally, anything with the word "international" in the title) as electives, and I doubt anyone would bat an eyelid, but you can also take hardcore shit, like how to analyze creditworthiness, or how to value securities (fundamental vs technical, Black-Scholes, Modigliani-Miller, etc.), or you can delve deeper into certain subjects (basically, prep classes for CPA, CFA, CFP, etc.)

Okay but none of this stuff is outside the scope of an undergraduate econometrics II or financial modeling class. Doesn't need to be a graduate degree.

We did black scholes in my PDE class

Remember that about 80% of MBA students are not business undergrads. So they have never taken things like Advanced econ or finance classes, or even basics in accounting and the like.

That is not necessarily true. Undergraduates not majoring in business can take these or other comparable classes as electives or to meet requirements for other majors. Of the incoming MBA students at Wharton, 28% majored in business and 25% majored in STEM. 44% majored in humanities, social science, or economics. (3% were "other".) I'd be surprised if more than half of these students had never taken a course covering nonlinear regression.

AllTheLawz wrote:

whelmer wrote:You can go straight from undergrad, but you need an outstanding academic background, and solid technical skills would make you more competitive. You'd be a business analyst, not an associate. I think business analysts usually make 60-70k, excluding bonuses.

If you get an MBA you are hired as an associate and make 90k+, excluding bonuses. Good grades are helpful at this point, but you don't need to be stellar. If you really want the job you need to network for it. I knew a guy in grad school whom I never saw doing schoolwork; he was too busy networking, leveraging his contacts, and practicing business cases for interviews. Dude got interviews with Boston Consulting Group, Deloitte, and some other places and ended up getting a job with McKinsey.

Quick correction here.. base salary at all major consulting firms for an associate right now are $135-140k w/ first year guaranteed comp ~180k (base+signing+retirement) and topping out at $200k+ depending on year-end performance bonus.

Grades don't matter at all but JD hiring is almost exclusively from Top 10 schools.

You're right. Boutique consulting firms will pay less, but the majors hook it up, if you do private sector consulting at least. Public sector consulting pays much less, but the hours are wonderful.

Edit: Grades matter a little, at least if we are talking about MBAs. All else being equal, if you have a 2.0 and a firm is choosing between you and someone with a 3.3, they could very well pass you up.

Thanks for the advice guys (and girls). I'm hoping to leverage my experience at Merrill Lynch and get a killer GMAT score. After studying for the LSAT, the GMAT RC and critical reasoning seem a lot easier. Just need to brush up on the Math portion.

Obviously, working at Bain or Mckinsey would be amazing.