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Programs like Law Preview: Valuable or waste of time?
Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 9:54 am
by NoDayButToday
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Re: Programs like Law Preview: Valuable or waste of time?
Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 10:41 am
by Jchance
If they actual give u a law exam, grade it and give u feedback then maybe it's worth it because it teaches u how to take an exam. If not, never.
Re: Programs like Law Preview: Valuable or waste of time?
Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 10:48 am
by love4life29
NoDayButToday wrote:I haven't been a student for a while and I didn't find that the skills tested on the LSAT came naturally to me. Would I be someone that could benefit from a summer course like Law Preview? My law school friends from all over say it's a complete waste of time and money, but I could potentially get a scholarship to do it for free and I feel like any edge in a curved system is positive.... Thoughts?
I'm also interested in this!
Re: Programs like Law Preview: Valuable or waste of time?
Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 11:02 am
by First Offense
Every single 0L does everything they can to get an edge for "the curve", be it reading certain books, taking prep classes, reading E&Es, even going so far as to reading case books.
It's all crap. There's no edge. You learn how to law school in law school. I would be there is close to zero correlation between 0L prep and outcomes at law school.
Re: Programs like Law Preview: Valuable or waste of time?
Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 9:22 am
by filibuster
don't waste your time going to law school camp
Re: Programs like Law Preview: Valuable or waste of time?
Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 9:27 am
by Nebby
First Offense wrote:zero correlation between 0L prep and outcomes at law school.
Re: Programs like Law Preview: Valuable or waste of time?
Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 9:50 am
by thesealocust
Waste of time
Re: Programs like Law Preview: Valuable or waste of time?
Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 9:54 am
by lawhopeful10
CounselorNebby wrote:First Offense wrote:zero correlation between 0L prep and outcomes at law school.
I don't know how you guys can say with such certainty this is true. I 0L prepped and at least on my first semester grades (all I have right now) I did really well and I thought the prep I did made my semester easier. I would never say 0L prep is necessary but I think it saves you some time during the actual semester when your time will be taken up by meeting new people, going out, and settling in at a new place.
Edit: I should also say the 0L prep I have in mind is learning how to take law exams. If law preview doesn't help with that then it's likely not worth it.
Re: Programs like Law Preview: Valuable or waste of time?
Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 10:01 am
by Nebby
The only 0L prep one should do is 0L prep that is free. My 0L prep is that I'm a little anxious ball of nerves and read all of my casebooks front-to-back before classes started.
I knew the material like a maw'fugga but 75% of getting an A is knowing the professor and knowing how the professor tests/grades. No amount of 0L prep can do that for you.
Re: Programs like Law Preview: Valuable or waste of time?
Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 2:11 pm
by First Offense
lawhopeful10 wrote:CounselorNebby wrote:First Offense wrote:zero correlation between 0L prep and outcomes at law school.
I don't know how you guys can say with such certainty this is true. I 0L prepped and at least on my first semester grades (all I have right now) I did really well and I thought the prep I did made my semester easier. I would never say 0L prep is necessary but I think it saves you some time during the actual semester when your time will be taken up by meeting new people, going out, and settling in at a new place.
Edit: I should also say the 0L prep I have in mind is learning how to take law exams. If law preview doesn't help with that then it's likely not worth it.
And? I can show you dozens that did 0L prep and did not do well first semester. I did no 0L prep and did very well first semester. Anecdote is an anecdote.
Re: Programs like Law Preview: Valuable or waste of time?
Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 3:46 pm
by lawhopeful10
That's fair. I guess I will just say you have to learn how to take law exams at some point or another. Why not get good at that skill before law school starts when you have spare time then during the semester when things get hectic. And I'm pretty sure I remember the company that does law preview had a statistic that on average people who took that did better than your average student. That might be due to the type of people that would take it in the first place rather then it's teachings but the point remains that you can save yourself some stress and time by figuring out law exams ahead of time.
Edit: and yes while my story is an anecdote you can look back on my post history and see where I first contemplated 0L prep like a year ago. I entered my school with a median GPA and LSAT and find it hard to believe that it was just random luck that I did so well. Similarly many of the people who wrote the how to do well in law school guides(Arrow and others) thought it helped. Also as I said before I'm not at all saying it's necessary just that it CAN be beneficial.
Edit 2: The term 0L prep can mean and be a variety of things depending on the person. Thus people who say they 0L prepped might really have just spent time looking at the law rather then learning how to apply it which could go to explaining different thoughts on how valuable it is. Second, people who did 0L prep and didn't do well might have done even worse had they not prepped at all so it still is not clear it was worthless.
Re: Programs like Law Preview: Valuable or waste of time?
Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 4:06 pm
by dsn32
Did Law Preview last summer because it was free for me.... tbh it's only useful if you're willing to by into their system and work 12-hrs/day, 7 days a week for most of the semester. In my opinion, this was not a realistic game-plan. Law preview teaches you to do a lot of things that are really useful when you're just figuring law school out...but two months in, I thought it was a massive amount of work for minimal returns.
So, I guess my advice would be this:
-If you are an absolute grinder who will follow their schedule and study tips, take the class.
-If you at all value working efficiently and having a life outside of law school, skip it.
Re: Programs like Law Preview: Valuable or waste of time?
Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 7:18 pm
by OutCold
You would be better served getting your hands on some old model exam answers and noting how a good exam is structured.
Re: Programs like Law Preview: Valuable or waste of time?
Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 8:23 pm
by hichvichwoh
dsn32 wrote:Did Law Preview last summer because it was free for me.... tbh it's only useful if you're willing to by into their system and work 12-hrs/day, 7 days a week for most of the semester. In my opinion, this was not a realistic game-plan. Law preview teaches you to do a lot of things that are really useful when you're just figuring law school out...but two months in, I thought it was a massive amount of work for minimal returns.
So, I guess my advice would be this:
-If you are an absolute grinder who will follow their schedule and study tips, take the class.
-If you at all value working efficiently and having a life outside of law school, skip it.
this is basically the same business model as most scam diets, they give you an impossible regimen that they know you can't possibly follow, so you can't blame them when you don't experience any benefit because "you didn't stick to the program"
Re: Programs like Law Preview: Valuable or waste of time?
Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 8:30 pm
by lhanvt13
Waste. Like said above, only valuable prep is free prep. Also, don't do substantive prep. Most you should do is LEEWS if you can get it for free. If not, don't even bother. Only a few select things MIGHT give u an edge or sense of comfort, but law preview is not one of them.
Re: Programs like Law Preview: Valuable or waste of time?
Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 8:36 pm
by Nova
waste of time
Re: Programs like Law Preview: Valuable or waste of time?
Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 8:45 pm
by northwood
Nova wrote:waste of time
Spend that time instead doing things you enjoy.
Re: Programs like Law Preview: Valuable or waste of time?
Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 1:56 pm
by aladdinismyprince
I took Law Preview because it was free for me (I had a scholarship). I don't think it is a complete waste of time, but I think you can get the same information at a much cheaper price. In addition to Law Preview, I also did LEEWS (which was like $80 used on Amazon), read "1L," and read "Getting to Maybe." At some point, all of these sources start to sound the same. So, I vote save the money and read the other books.
I did like that Law Preview had a real professor come in and teach a case. But that really only gives you an edge in like the first week of class. Your classmates will soon catch up. I guess the major benefit of Law Preview is going into 1L year less stressed by the unknown than your classmates.
For what it's worth, I ended up doing extremely well at my T14. But I don't attribute that success to LawPreview at all.
Re: Programs like Law Preview: Valuable or waste of time?
Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 4:26 pm
by NoDayButToday
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Re: Programs like Law Preview: Valuable or waste of time?
Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 5:06 pm
by Hutz_and_Goodman
Huge waste of time. Just finished first week of SA and they specifically said "forget law review. Formatting will not always be blue book style but based on local rules, judges rules, or what the associate/partner you are working for wants."
Re: Programs like Law Preview: Valuable or waste of time?
Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 5:09 pm
by A. Nony Mouse
Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:Huge waste of time. Just finished first week of SA and they specifically said "forget law review. Formatting will not always be blue book style but based on local rules, judges rules, or what the associate/partner you are working for wants."
Law review isn't the same thing as law preview.
Re: Programs like Law Preview: Valuable or waste of time?
Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 6:27 pm
by twenty
I considered gunning during 0L, but decided against it. Based on the efforts of a friend who tried prepping during 0L and ended up below median, I've come to the conclusion that:
1) Any substantive prep is at best a complete waste of time, at worst is actually sort of destructive. This isn't like a Spanish class where you can learn Spanish over the summer from your gardener and go in to class with a huge advantage. You could waste 12-20 hours learning the ins and outs of personal property, only to have your entire property class be about real property. You don't want to start the semester feeling burned out. Of course, you also might pick up lingo that you shouldn't be using on your exams. During admitted student day at USC, there was a professor there that kept calling mens rea "the wicked mind". Learn the law the way your professor wants you to learn it.
2) It's stupid, because the material is really easy. If you're stumped on actual "wtf is a contract" type business, 0L prep was not going to help you regardless.
3) I honestly don't even buy the "you should prep to learn how to take an exam" business because the intuitive parts are really intuitive, and the individualized parts you really can't prep for. Even for a super generic class like Civ Pro, you could memorize the FRCP and yet still only end up with a B+.
4) If you're in a situation where you absolutely must have every edge available in order to succeed, you should almost certainly sit out and retake. Even if 0L prep did provide a marginal benefit, that's not going to compensate for you making terrible life choices. If you're at Columbia, you probably don't have to worry too much about your grades. If you're at a regional school with a full ride, grades will probably not be the big factor in getting you a job.
If you seriously have no idea how "applying law to a set of facts" works, read GTM, or read some poster's two sentence summary of it on TLS.
Re: Programs like Law Preview: Valuable or waste of time?
Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 6:35 pm
by sd5289
The only 0L prep that you can do that is actually worthwhile is enjoy what remains of you pre-top-law-schools.com this summer. Have some drinks, hang out with friends/family, play video games, whatever. Law school is a long, grueling, and at times demoralizing 3 years, even if you are doing well and near the top of the class.
Re: Programs like Law Preview: Valuable or waste of time?
Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 11:12 am
by Pyromancer
delete
Re: Programs like Law Preview: Valuable or waste of time?
Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 2:11 pm
by banjo
I'm pretty much against 0L prep. However, if this program gives you feedback on time management or organization on an actual practice exam, that might be helpful.